It dose not contain optical brighteners?
And if so why? And what are you using ?
And if so why? And what are you using ?
Anyone using a specific detergent because..
- Thread starter stan
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Perwoll Intensive Black. Cuz fading.
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My next detergent purchase will for sure be Cheer Powder HE compatible since it is nearing winter and a majority of our dark loads will contain jeans and other black items. It supposedly has no OBAs. I did not like Tide Colorguard, less cleaning power, the scent was overwhelming and not attractive IMHO, and it still contained OBAs. I have Cheer liquid now, but I am wanting 100% OBA free.
My next detergent purchase will for sure be Cheer Powder HE compatible since it is nearing winter and a majority of our dark loads will contain jeans and other black items. It supposedly has no OBAs. I did not like Tide Colorguard, less cleaning power, the scent was overwhelming and not attractive IMHO, and it still contained OBAs. I have Cheer liquid now, but I am wanting 100% OBA free.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Ideally, I'd avoid detergent with optical brighteners, but these days that's about as easy as not hearing Christmas carols playing in a store during December.
Two factors for me: dark colors, and the suggestion that OBA can irritate my lily white skin.
Some have also voiced some concerns about environmental impact.
I've used "green" detergents which are OBA free. However, I haven't used these as much recently--these detergents are $$$$ and they aren't as powerful as conventional detergents. (Although, for most of my needs, they are probably good enough. Laundry for me is freshening, not dealing with nightmare stains.)
Two factors for me: dark colors, and the suggestion that OBA can irritate my lily white skin.
Some have also voiced some concerns about environmental impact.
I've used "green" detergents which are OBA free. However, I haven't used these as much recently--these detergents are $$$$ and they aren't as powerful as conventional detergents. (Although, for most of my needs, they are probably good enough. Laundry for me is freshening, not dealing with nightmare stains.)
whirlcool
Well-known member
I've been down this road before. It's very difficult if not impossible to determine for sure which detergents don't contain OBA's. Cheer advertised a few years ago that they didn't have OBA's but then they added them back in all their formulas.
Maybe there is something more exotic out there that is OBA free.
Maybe there is something more exotic out there that is OBA free.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Part of a Seventh Generation comment on OBAs:
Designed to intentionally remain behind on our clothes and linens, optical brighteners rub off on our skin where they can cause a reaction that looks like sunburn. They're no fun for the environment either. Optical brighteners washed down our drains frequently survive wastewater treatment and escape into our lakes, rivers, and streams. Once there, they don't completely biodegrade and instead accumulate in fish.
Designed to intentionally remain behind on our clothes and linens, optical brighteners rub off on our skin where they can cause a reaction that looks like sunburn. They're no fun for the environment either. Optical brighteners washed down our drains frequently survive wastewater treatment and escape into our lakes, rivers, and streams. Once there, they don't completely biodegrade and instead accumulate in fish.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>I've been down this road before. It's very difficult if not impossible to determine for sure which detergents don't contain OBA's. Cheer advertised a few years ago that they didn't have OBA's but then they added them back in all their formulas.
I may be remembering a different era, but it seems to me it wasn't "all" detergents, but "almost all." There was IIRC at least one powder formula that stayed OBA free.
A quick look indicates that maybe that they still have a powder that's OBA free.
http://www.pgproductsafety.com/prod...heer/Cheer_stay_colorful_Powder_Detergent.pdf
Of course, Cheer isn't alone--other brands that were OBA free (and listed as suggestions for those needing/wanting to avoid OBA) got reformulated.
I may be remembering a different era, but it seems to me it wasn't "all" detergents, but "almost all." There was IIRC at least one powder formula that stayed OBA free.
A quick look indicates that maybe that they still have a powder that's OBA free.
http://www.pgproductsafety.com/prod...heer/Cheer_stay_colorful_Powder_Detergent.pdf
Of course, Cheer isn't alone--other brands that were OBA free (and listed as suggestions for those needing/wanting to avoid OBA) got reformulated.
Wonder
When OBs were first introduced into laundry detergents?
Use to think the All Free &Clear was OB free, but after a call to the 800 number, was told that all versions include OBs. They manufacture a OB fee one, but it's only sold to the military.
Guess the only ones that are truly OB free are
Ecos
Seventh Generation
Plant
Bio Clean
Maybe...Method?
Older versions if Cheer powder (bet their discontinuing it)
Country Save
Safeway made a line of products called Bright Green?
Laundress may know more, and have some history on when and why they decided our laundry need to glow.
When OBs were first introduced into laundry detergents?
Use to think the All Free &Clear was OB free, but after a call to the 800 number, was told that all versions include OBs. They manufacture a OB fee one, but it's only sold to the military.
Guess the only ones that are truly OB free are
Ecos
Seventh Generation
Plant
Bio Clean
Maybe...Method?
Older versions if Cheer powder (bet their discontinuing it)
Country Save
Safeway made a line of products called Bright Green?
Laundress may know more, and have some history on when and why they decided our laundry need to glow.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
I bought
Tide for colors, because it said reduces fading. I don't know for sure if it is OBO free or not.
I also use Woolite for darks, bought specifically to keep darks, dark.
I know my other Tide varities are loaded with OBOs because they glow in black light.
Tide for colors, because it said reduces fading. I don't know for sure if it is OBO free or not.
I also use Woolite for darks, bought specifically to keep darks, dark.
I know my other Tide varities are loaded with OBOs because they glow in black light.
Fed up, I looked into how to make my own
I got sick of paying a lot for the in-store brands, that constantly change, and having to throw out a plastic bottle every time.
Here's the recipe, I put it on my Google Docs . . .
Maybe, just leave out the Oxi Clean.
I got sick of paying a lot for the in-store brands, that constantly change, and having to throw out a plastic bottle every time.
Here's the recipe, I put it on my Google Docs . . .
Maybe, just leave out the Oxi Clean.
joeypete
Well-known member
Cheer Powder
I have been using it for a while now. Just word of warning...it does foam a lot. I don't use their recommended amount because my laundry room would be full of suds!
Odd thing is on the Cheer website it mentions the liquid as having the colorguard, but not the powder. Even on the box it just says "Stay colorful".
I like it and it smells the same as the liquid however the smell doesn't linger like the liquid (which I liked). After I take things out of the dryer you can't even smell it at all. Air dried stuff has a little smell, but still not as strong as the liquid.
I have been using it for a while now. Just word of warning...it does foam a lot. I don't use their recommended amount because my laundry room would be full of suds!
Odd thing is on the Cheer website it mentions the liquid as having the colorguard, but not the powder. Even on the box it just says "Stay colorful".
I like it and it smells the same as the liquid however the smell doesn't linger like the liquid (which I liked). After I take things out of the dryer you can't even smell it at all. Air dried stuff has a little smell, but still not as strong as the liquid.
Stan, the first optical brightener was Rinso's Solium, "the magic sunlight ingredient," introduced when Rinso was still a soap. I believe in the late Forties.
whirlcool
Well-known member
I had meant that it was Cheer that added the OBA's back in all their own detergents rather than all detergents on the market.
Plus add the fact that some "models" of of detergent aren't sold everywhere, it makes it harder for find one. Can anyone even name one detergent where it has been verified that it does not contain OBA's?
Just because the package says it's safe for colors doesn't mean it's OBA free.
Plus add the fact that some "models" of of detergent aren't sold everywhere, it makes it harder for find one. Can anyone even name one detergent where it has been verified that it does not contain OBA's?
Just because the package says it's safe for colors doesn't mean it's OBA free.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>I had meant that it was Cheer that added the OBA's back in all their own detergents rather than all detergents on the market.
>I may be remembering a different era, but it seems to me it wasn't "all" detergents, but "almost all." There was IIRC at least one powder formula that stayed OBA free.
Allen, that's how I read it. My response wasn't the best--the point in history I recall, Cheer had quite a line of different products. Almost everything got the OBA, but at least one powder "escaped" It appears from the ingredients I posted above they still have a powder that doesn't have "brightener" mentioned.
>I may be remembering a different era, but it seems to me it wasn't "all" detergents, but "almost all." There was IIRC at least one powder formula that stayed OBA free.
Allen, that's how I read it. My response wasn't the best--the point in history I recall, Cheer had quite a line of different products. Almost everything got the OBA, but at least one powder "escaped" It appears from the ingredients I posted above they still have a powder that doesn't have "brightener" mentioned.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>Just word of warning...it does foam a lot. I don't use their recommended amount because my laundry room would be full of suds!
I have a supply of Cheer powder that I'm almost out of. It's several years old, and it's been slowly used up as secondary detergent. My sample foams, but I think I've seen worse from some versions of Tide. At least, it seems like Cheer rinses reasonably easily. I also tend to use less than the suggested amount.
>however the smell doesn't linger like the liquid (which I liked). After I take things out of the dryer you can't even smell it at all.
A selling point for me, frankly. I bit of scent can be nice, but so many detergents leave behind so much scent that you smell it on a person's clothes on the opposite end of a large supermarket.
I have a supply of Cheer powder that I'm almost out of. It's several years old, and it's been slowly used up as secondary detergent. My sample foams, but I think I've seen worse from some versions of Tide. At least, it seems like Cheer rinses reasonably easily. I also tend to use less than the suggested amount.
>however the smell doesn't linger like the liquid (which I liked). After I take things out of the dryer you can't even smell it at all.
A selling point for me, frankly. I bit of scent can be nice, but so many detergents leave behind so much scent that you smell it on a person's clothes on the opposite end of a large supermarket.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Safeway made a line of products called Bright Green?
I remember that line. Not sure what the laundry detergent was like--I think I was curious, but never got around to trying it.
One issue: Safeway was bought out, and so it's entirely possible that store products will change in time. Interestingly, in my market, I am seeing a lot of Safeway branded stuff appear at Albertsons (which is owned by the same company).
I remember that line. Not sure what the laundry detergent was like--I think I was curious, but never got around to trying it.
One issue: Safeway was bought out, and so it's entirely possible that store products will change in time. Interestingly, in my market, I am seeing a lot of Safeway branded stuff appear at Albertsons (which is owned by the same company).
First laundry detergent/soap with FWA?
Rinso by Lever Bros. introduced in 1947 or 1948, cannot recall when. Later on came Blue White, La France and then many other detergents such as Tide, All, Bold and virtually everyone else added fabric whitening/bluing agents.
Some of the older products such as vintage All "with Bleach Borax and Brighteners) must have used both bluing agents in addition to OBAs. I say this because when a sour is added to the final rinse after using such products one finds the same tell tale "rotten egg" whiff that comes from doing the same when using some types of true bluing. This scent is caused by a chemical reaction of the acid pH to iron found in certain bluing agents.
Also some vintage products like All (with the Three B's) leaves laundry noticeably tinted a bluish green. Same shade as some bluing agents. In fact one reason stopped using the vintage All in my stash routinely is that found whites/colours taking on a dull bluish/green tinge that comes from excess use of bluing.
In fact when laundry comes out of washer after using All when held in bright light one can see the bluish/green effect quite clearly.
Why fabric whitening agents? Because natural fibers such as cotton, linen and even wool aren't white to begin with, but bleached to reach various shades of that "color". However bleaching alone does not remove the often yellow tinge that results so fabric whitening agents are applied at factory to textiles to give them that "whiter than white" effect. In the old days it would have been a type of bluing but not always.
If anyone uses or collects vintage linens or comes across something made say before 1930's compare it to modern offerings. You'll notice a difference between a "white" shirt or sheet from back then to something from say the 1950's onwards. That difference is the application of OBAs.
The further "why" of OBAs was simple; with modern inventions and perfections of laundry/house cleaning products and appliances in theory Madame's laundry day/housework (or anyone else for that matter) should have been greatly simplified. No such luck. Product makers and their marketing/advertising henchmen went on a binge around the 1950's to convince women that now clean was just not good enough. You had to have a "whiter than white" wash or somehow you were a slovenly housekeeper who let down the team and was endangering your family.
Persons go on about bluing as if it was the bees knees. But good housewives, laundresses and anyone else in charge of that department knew a good wash done well needed the stuff nil to none. Again all bluing does is counter the yellowing of fabrics. If things were properly laundered, rinsed and ironed it went a long way to keeping them from yellowing.
In fact much of the yellowing you see (under arm stains, center of pillow slips and sheets) is caused by wearing things too long and not washing frequently nor properly. Either way all the bluing in the world won't cover up that mess. What you end up with is a darkly blue stained textile with an obvious yellow area still shining through. *LOL*
Sadly at least here in the USA it is very difficult to find laundry detergents, fabric softeners and even starches that do not contain FWAs. The American public overwhelmingly prefers "whiter than white" and "bright" colors that such chemicals give. At least in Europe you can find detergents especially for colors that do not contain bluing agents from P&G, Henkel and other top shelf products.
Why don't they do it? Dirty little secret is that for Tide and many other laundry products everything begins with one base formula. From there things are added or omitted depending upon which version is being created.
If you pull a MSDS for say Tide liquid detergent you'll see it covers almost every single version including "Free and Gentle". Things are just added or not included depending upon if is "HE" or "Total Care".
Rinso by Lever Bros. introduced in 1947 or 1948, cannot recall when. Later on came Blue White, La France and then many other detergents such as Tide, All, Bold and virtually everyone else added fabric whitening/bluing agents.
Some of the older products such as vintage All "with Bleach Borax and Brighteners) must have used both bluing agents in addition to OBAs. I say this because when a sour is added to the final rinse after using such products one finds the same tell tale "rotten egg" whiff that comes from doing the same when using some types of true bluing. This scent is caused by a chemical reaction of the acid pH to iron found in certain bluing agents.
Also some vintage products like All (with the Three B's) leaves laundry noticeably tinted a bluish green. Same shade as some bluing agents. In fact one reason stopped using the vintage All in my stash routinely is that found whites/colours taking on a dull bluish/green tinge that comes from excess use of bluing.
In fact when laundry comes out of washer after using All when held in bright light one can see the bluish/green effect quite clearly.
Why fabric whitening agents? Because natural fibers such as cotton, linen and even wool aren't white to begin with, but bleached to reach various shades of that "color". However bleaching alone does not remove the often yellow tinge that results so fabric whitening agents are applied at factory to textiles to give them that "whiter than white" effect. In the old days it would have been a type of bluing but not always.
If anyone uses or collects vintage linens or comes across something made say before 1930's compare it to modern offerings. You'll notice a difference between a "white" shirt or sheet from back then to something from say the 1950's onwards. That difference is the application of OBAs.
The further "why" of OBAs was simple; with modern inventions and perfections of laundry/house cleaning products and appliances in theory Madame's laundry day/housework (or anyone else for that matter) should have been greatly simplified. No such luck. Product makers and their marketing/advertising henchmen went on a binge around the 1950's to convince women that now clean was just not good enough. You had to have a "whiter than white" wash or somehow you were a slovenly housekeeper who let down the team and was endangering your family.
Persons go on about bluing as if it was the bees knees. But good housewives, laundresses and anyone else in charge of that department knew a good wash done well needed the stuff nil to none. Again all bluing does is counter the yellowing of fabrics. If things were properly laundered, rinsed and ironed it went a long way to keeping them from yellowing.
In fact much of the yellowing you see (under arm stains, center of pillow slips and sheets) is caused by wearing things too long and not washing frequently nor properly. Either way all the bluing in the world won't cover up that mess. What you end up with is a darkly blue stained textile with an obvious yellow area still shining through. *LOL*
Sadly at least here in the USA it is very difficult to find laundry detergents, fabric softeners and even starches that do not contain FWAs. The American public overwhelmingly prefers "whiter than white" and "bright" colors that such chemicals give. At least in Europe you can find detergents especially for colors that do not contain bluing agents from P&G, Henkel and other top shelf products.
Why don't they do it? Dirty little secret is that for Tide and many other laundry products everything begins with one base formula. From there things are added or omitted depending upon which version is being created.
If you pull a MSDS for say Tide liquid detergent you'll see it covers almost every single version including "Free and Gentle". Things are just added or not included depending upon if is "HE" or "Total Care".
Thank You Dear
for the low down on this.
Rosalies No Suds detergent is suppose to be OB free. Haven't tried it yet.
Wonder if in time our rivers lakes and streams will glow in the dark LOL
Also wonder when using these detergents containing the OBs, if more OBs are rinsed away with warm rinse options on some machines, or is it engineered to adhere to the fabric no matter what temp is used for rinsing ?
for the low down on this.
Rosalies No Suds detergent is suppose to be OB free. Haven't tried it yet.
Wonder if in time our rivers lakes and streams will glow in the dark LOL
Also wonder when using these detergents containing the OBs, if more OBs are rinsed away with warm rinse options on some machines, or is it engineered to adhere to the fabric no matter what temp is used for rinsing ?
IIRC OBAs do break down
So are not that much of a worry as opposed to say phosphates to the environment. I mean the stuff has been used since the 1950's.....
Good thing about FWAs is that no, they are not long lasting on textiles nor human skin for that matter. If you stop using them on laundry day eventually amounts on fabrics are reduced to near nil levels. That is the reason they are included in so many wash day products. The coatings applied at time of textile production wear/are washed off.
So are not that much of a worry as opposed to say phosphates to the environment. I mean the stuff has been used since the 1950's.....
Good thing about FWAs is that no, they are not long lasting on textiles nor human skin for that matter. If you stop using them on laundry day eventually amounts on fabrics are reduced to near nil levels. That is the reason they are included in so many wash day products. The coatings applied at time of textile production wear/are washed off.
