AO Smith Electric Water Heater (leaked)

[mattl]

My problem is the only drain I have in the laundry room is t

 

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My problem is the only drain I have in the laundry room is the washing machine....

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Well that means you have a drain!  Use the stand tube your machine drains into.....

 

[mark_wpduet]

So just so I'm clear

the instructions for draining an electric hot water heater WITHOUT turning the water off is this:

1. Connect garden hose to heater
2. Bring hose to a drain. Elevation doesn't matter since the water that leaves the hot water heater will be returning so there is pressure.
3. Turn valve where the hose connects to the heater while someone else is standing at the sink or drain holding the hose.
4. Do this for how long? I'm guess a couple of minutes?
5. turn valve off at water heater
6. Disconnect hose

that's it, right? I'm thinking if you do this once or twice per year that the sediment won't get bad enough to clog up anything.

I have zero knowledge in plumbing or electrical and I'm not handy at all. Although once I did replace a toilet fill valve but I went slow and steady.

This seems MUCH easier than turning everything off, draining it. If this is all there is to it, why do some do it the hard way?

I'm envious of those with heat pump water heaters or even tankless.

 

[DADoES]

 
A tank heater can't be drained to empty without shutting off the input.

You're referencing what Phil describes in Reply #16?  He's connecting a hose to the drain port while the input is still fully on, and opening the drain, which has the mains supply pressure flush debris out through the drain port.  The tank gets flushed but never drains as such.

The trick is whether there's so much debris accumulated that it obstructs flow through the drain ... may have to poke it with a stick.

 

[askolover]

I usually replace my drain valve with a brass ball valve that has full flow and is less likely to get clogged by debris.  I take the lever handle off and hang it by the heater so it isn't accidentally bumped and turned on unexpectedly.

 

[mark_wpduet]

I was just now looking at tankless water heaters online. I thought they were 1000s of $. I didn't even consider them because of this. But they don't look like they are (at least some of them) any more than regular tank water heaters.

 

[DADoES]

 
Mark, swapping in a tankless for an existing tank unit is not just a simple swap-in.

Gas tankless can have much as a 200,000 BTU gas burner, requires a larger gas line.

Electric tankless large enough to handle all the needs of house takes a 120 amp or larger circuit ... compared to a typical tank unit that takes a 30 amp circuit.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Our old Jackson (made in 1973) lasted from 1976 when the house was built all the way until 2013... in fact it was still going strong when we replaced it, we were just concerned it would start leaking due to its age so replaced it. The new unit was a GE (I think made by someone else) and hasn't had any problems.

Just prior to that, our Water Worker pressure tank started to rust and leak. Fortunately caught it before a burst. That one was dated 1991 so had obviously been replaced at some point. New one of same brand has a bladder inside so hopefully shouldn't have any problems for a long time.

 

[mark_wpduet]

the old water heater

is still in our garage. I need to call and schedule the city to come pick it up. There is a point to this: The water heater is HEAVY!! It literally feels like it's filled with water, and there may still be some in there because I don't think it drained all the way. But you don't hear a sloshing sound in it. I'm wondering if the weight is because it's probably filled with sediment inside. I can only imagine what it must look like inside.

 

[DADoES]

 
Yes, sediment.  It was amazing on those aforementioned replacement incidents the difference in weight of the old tanks vs. the new ones ... and the new ones weren't bottom-heavy.

 

[perc-o-prince]

Non-electric WH question

So ours is hooked up to our central heating system (oil furnace) as a separate "zone." Is there something we should be doing, maintenance-wise? It's been in service +/- 10 years.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[mark_wpduet]

researching tankless

You're right. It's not as simple as switching one for the other. It looks like they require a certain voltage on a double pole breaker. By double pole, I'm sure that means a breaker that has 2 breakers on one long pole in the breaker box. But on that double pole breaker, there is voltage. One says 50 and the other says 30. That would NOT work (at least for the ones I've looked at) so I'm sure that would have to be done by an electrician. But the breaker box is in the garage just beside the laundry room. Not far. I'm not sure if that even matters. I think it would be better the closer it is. But I'm not sure of the climate map showing the best model for your climate. Sometimes the water here in the winter will be so cold it's ridiculous. I have no clue what type would be good for 2 people. We never take showers at the same time. We never do laundry/dishwasher, run sinks while taking showers. I guess now is the time to start saving for one because I can't see this BOTTOM of the barrel Lowes 40 gallon tall A/O smith lasting that long.

 

[ea56]

After reading this thread I too looked up tankless electric water heaters, I wasn’t even aware that they existed, I thought they were only available for gas. I found the same info as Mark relates in reply #30.

I do think that we could switch to one of the mid to high output models with no problem. But the installation would absolutely require an electrician and the running of at least one more electric line to where the water heater is located, in a closet under the stairs. And also the addition of at least one more circuit breaker, so this would be a big and fairly expensive job.

That being said, we last replaced our water heater 9 years ago, it is one of the Low Boy 40 gal. models by Rheem, and works fine. The previous WH was over 20 years old, and when it failed it wasn’t all at once, it just stopped producing enough hot water. So, if and when this one begins to crap out I will certainly look into replacing it with a tankless electric WH, the long term savings in electricity would soon offset the extra expense. BTW, the safety release valve drains into our backyard, I’ve never heard if a safety release valve opening and flooding the interior of the dwelling. We even had a safety release valve for the WH in the home my family lived in when I was a teen, and it was built in 1961. Once, when I and my siblings were coming home from school, Mom was at work, there was water shooting out from the front of the house, from the overheated electric WH. So this safety feature has been around for over 50 years.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 9/21/2019-19:29]

 

[circlew]

Electric tankless water heaters large enough to serve an entire house of normal size usually require at least 2 or 3 240 volt circuits of 50 to 60 amps each. These breakers are usually in a separate panel of either 150 or 200 amps. This is in addition to the panel or panels serving other loads such as lighting, appliances and HVAC. Therefore, a main service of at least 400 amps is usually required.

The markings on the handles of circuit breakers indicate the rating in amps, such as 20, 50, 225, etc. In a residential occupancy, a single pole breaker is for 120 volt circuits, and double pole for single phase 240 or 208 volt circuits. On rare occasions you may find triple pole breakers for 3 phase 240 or 208 volt loads.

 

[mattl]

Tankless are OK for some folks, I'd opt out.  Looked into them a while back but I like my water HOT, tankless max out at about 120 from what I read.  I keep my tank at the highest temp, about 150+ and like it that way.  Dishes flash dry, laundry on hot is hot.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Well

I'm not 100% sure but I think I remember upping my old water heater temp to 135 from 120 or 125. Whatever it was on at the factory I bumped it up like 10 degrees. With this new one, we just left it a default....and I can tell the water isn't quite as hot....but it's PLENTY hot enough. Hot enough so my hands can't stand it on full hot, I have to mix hot/cold. Plus, the washer has a built in heater as does dishwasher....so I feel like as long as it's hot enough the way it is I'm just going to leave it........BUT, as I type this I think I just remembered WHY I turned it up a long time ago. It was because of a post on this forum about bacteria growing it water tanks that are not set at a hot enough temp.

 

[DADoES]

 
Residential-oriented tankless typically allows maximum setpoint of 140°F.  Commercial-oriented units may go higher.

A separate subpanel is required here for all electric water heaters, not sure when that went into effect.  The last tank replacement at work had a subpanel added.

My electric tankless is on a 120 amp circuit.
Two 60-amp breakers in the main subpanel, 1-3 and 5-7 (9-11 is the range).
The dedicated subpanel inches away divides the two 60-amp circuits into four circuits feeding into the unit, each with two 40-amp breakers.  It has four 7,200-watt elements.

 

[petek]

I went through the same thing about 6 months ago. Got up one morning and had no hot water.. went down to the basement to check and found a few inches of water just about to cross the threshold of the furnace/work room into the carpeted rek room.. water gushing out the gas water heater.. Same deal, no floor drain and there's a boiler in there as well. I can't figure that one out. I've never lived in a house without a basement floor drain . Got that all sopped up with the wet/dry vac. Because of regulations now in force here in Ontario they couldn't install a new gas heater because the old one shared the flue with the boiler. And because the gas meter was outside right about where a new flue would go through the wall it was too close (more regulations) to the meters regulator.. has to be at least 6 ft away. So I installed a Rheem electric.

I was pissed off at myself because I had bought a cheap battery water alarm but had never taken it out of its package.. I have now.. and I bought about 6 more off Amazon and have them placed in all bathrooms and under sinks.

Lo and behold I get up this morning and hear the dreaded sound of the one in the basement going off a few feet from the water heater.. but for some reason it's not wet down there... so not sure why it went off.. I honestly felt sick to my stomach when I heard it. I really don't want to go through that nightmare.

btw mine was set at 140 out of the box.. I dropped it to 122 and that seems to work fine for the dishwasher. Laundry is pretty much always done with warm or cold washes.

 

[iowabear]

Electric WH

In this area an electric WH would never make sense due to the price of electricity.

 

A tankless one would represent an even greater risk should our utility ever implement mandatory residential demand charges. They already have an optional experimental tariff for it.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Codes

Yes! There are codes for EVERYTHING but not a floor drain where a water heater tank holding gallons of water that are known to leak at end of life or even for other reasons is located.

This cheap water heater we bought......the drain valve is PLASTIC. How's that for quality? But I can understand because of its price point.

On a YouTube video I read a comment and I busted out laughing. Someone said: It's not a "hot water heater", it's a "water heater" If the water was already hot, it wouldn't need heating!

Anyway.....Here's the one we bought

https://www.lowes.com/pd/A-O-Smith-...uble-Element-Electric-Water-Heater/1000213649

 

[ea56]

Codes

When we had our WH replaced in 2010 it was mandatory that we had a drain and drain pan installed under the WH, and also even though its electric and a low boy, less likely to tip over in a quake, we also had to have it strapped to the wall, according to code in our local. This increased the installation charge considerably, but was good insurance against future damage from any leakage.

Eddie