Are there any new mechanical timer washers & dryers being sold

[rickc]

Are there any new mechanical timer washers & dryers being sold? My sister has decided she is done with the short lifespan of the computer boards on her machines and is looking to buy a new set, but wants mechanical timers on both. I know some models look like they have a mechanical timer, but there is still a computer board used for the cycles. Any true mechanical timers? She (unfortunately) doesn't want to deal with vintage.

 

[qsd-dan]

Maybe a few select low end dryers but I don't think any exist for washers. Gotta go vintage if you want QUALITY made mechanical timers.

 

[Chetlaham]

Commercial OPL Speed Queens may still offer a timer:

https://speedqueencommercial.com/en-us/products/top-load-washers-on-premises/

Other than that, not to my knowledge. That last EM appliance (except for a few clothes dryers) was just discontinued not long ago.

If everyone was like me, EM timers would not only be around today but make up of 98% of all appliances including microwave ovens. Considering it only takes a handful of sequences to drive a quality appliance electronics are of absolutely no practicality, benefit or gain.

 

[Chetlaham]

Scratch that, Speed Queen might have ditched the timer looking at the updated pics on their site. Sigh.

 

[pierreandreply4]

has mention i would suggest going vintage

i also suggest going vintage with eather a whirlpool direct drive mecanical timer washer dryer set or vintage belt drive set like in these pics first pic ge filter flo with mini basket if you have small loads

 

[rickc]

Thanks

I thought that might be the situation. I will try again to see if she will consider vintage. I know that's what I would prefer, but she's fixated on new.

 

[bradfordwhite]

The best solution I've found to make electronic timers, and electronic devices in general, last and operate problem free is to simply <span style="text-decoration: underline;">unplug</span> them or some how <span style="text-decoration: underline;">turn off the electricity to the device</span> when not in use. Give them at least a half an hour per day not energized.

Pull the plug on that electronic washer when it's not in use. Or install a timer.
So easy.

This also holds true for cel phones, modems, and computers.

But I can bet that's TOO EASY, yes too easy for some and there are those who will scoff at the very notion.


For those who scoff and fail to implement such a simple idea that works- you deserve the problems you'll get.

 

[maytag85]

Only laundry appliances that come with mechanical timers are usually dryers. There hasn’t been a Whirlpool washer which a mechanical timer for quite awhile, last model I am aware that came with any sort of mechanical timer were the Whirlpool 24” thin twin laundry center.

 

[petek]

Hmmm there's maybe something in that unplugging of the washer..Know of any studies.. It's easy for me to unplug the washer, the dryer is a little more not worth it because the big plug isn't easly accessible it's a 30 odd year old Kenmore with a mechanical times and only required one belt replacement over 16 years ago.. Runs like a champ, chips, scrapes and scratches and all.

 

[windrivers]

Unpluging Washers

Might want to do a little research. I believed it was safer to unplug appliances with electronic control boards because I was afraid of power surges, even though I also had surge protectors.

Then I read that constantly letting the capacitors drain and then recharging them by plugging them in and out also leads to shortened life for the caps and boards. Plus plugging in the machine can cause an initial surge also.

So it may not be as simple as declaring those who don't continually plug and unplug their machines all the time as lazy and ignorant.

I think quality electronic boards can be made, just that the main companies today don't seem to care about reliability. I have decades old radios, even an old microwave with a control board that's lasted 30 to 40 years. Maybe that's not as rough service as a washing machine, but then automobiles today have all kinds of electronics, many related to safety that much be somewhat reliable and endure a lot of varied conditions (as an aside, I don't want a vehicle that needs to plugged in, much less unplugged).

Speed Queen claims their boards are as reliable as their old mechanical controls. I suspect the jury's out on that, but I'm sure they're much more reliable than Whirlpool/Maytag's and such.

 

[Chetlaham]

Power Surges

Are used to blame every single failure mod and are largely a myth.

1st of all a plugging or unplugging something does not create a voltage spike. Power being restored does not create a voltage spike. Switching on/off devices around the home does not create a voltage spike.

2nd the overwhelming majority of voltage spikes or over voltage events come from either incidental contact between high voltage and low voltage lines (7,200 volt falling into a 120/240 volt secondary), open service neutrals, or direct lightning hits on or close to the home.

3rd it does not matter what type of surge protection you have. A direct lightning hit, open neutral or sustainted 7,200 volts on MOVs will cause them to burn up leaving what ever is being protected unprotected.

The majority of fires and electronic failures come from cheap poorly made boards and connectors which have no taken moisture into account.

 

[windrivers]

Power Spikes

True, nothing will protect against against direct lightning hits, however major appliances being turned on and off can cause instantaneous voltage variations on a household circuit. Brownouts can also be damaging to electronics, not just spikes. Not necessarily "spikes", but fluctuations that can overtime degrade electronics, even if not instantaneously.

While not exactly modern electronics, probably most here have had experience with incandescent light bulbs, when they burn out it is almost always when being turned on, not while in use. While modern electronics may not have such fragile tungsten filaments that heat up instantaneously, there's still a principal there that's works on various circuit elements over time being re-energized on a continual basis.

Probably many here have also seen other electronics that blew on being plugged in or turned on.

I noticed the capacitor issue was not addressed.

Do what you want, but my expensive electronics, such as my computer, is not just going to be on a surge protector, but also on a UPS system to protect against brownouts and dropouts.

 

[DADoES]

 
I've heard-said that computers are more likely to fail electrically at power-on, but there are mechanicals involved (cooling fans and hard drive motors) so it's one's personal decision whether/when to power-off (or fully disconnect from power) to split the difference on mechanical wear.  A local long-time computer dealer (and owner of the ISP where I worked for 9 years) once said "would you leave your car running continuously?" ... which is a point but also not quite the same thing, and he never shut off his store-office and and sale-display computers (of course the ISP servers were required to run continuously).

My desktop computers are on UPS units, run continuously unless I'm out of the house for more than a day.  My audio/video (including the now 20yo Panasonic plasma panel) is on a Panamax power conditioner, never fully disconnected from power source.

 

[Chetlaham]

VD=I x R (Warning, Number Heavy)

Power systems can be modeled as a series of equivalent impedances (resistors, inductors, capacitors) in series. Assuming worse case scenarios:

1) A typical 25kva pole transformer can deliver about 14,876 amps of fault current at 120 volts. Page 6:

http://146.126.90.208/business/serv...df/A E Fault Currents Tables FINAL 8 2003.pdf

Using ohms law, R=V/I, or 120 volts divided by 14,876 = 0.00807 ohms.

2) 1 AWG AL wire @ 75*C has an AC resistance of 0.2 ohms per 1000 feet. 0.2/1000= 0.0002 ohms per foot. A 50 foot 1 AWG service drop has an AC resistance of 0.02 ohms taking into account both the line and neutral.

3) 14 AWG copper @75*C has a resistance of 3.1 ohms per 1000 feet or 0.0031 ohms per foot. 75 feet of romoex run from the home's panel to an outlet is 0.0031 x 75 x 2= 0.465 ohms

Adding 0.00807 + 0.02 + 0.465 = 0.49 ohms of resistance.

Voltage drop is computed as current times resistance. So, a 12 amp space heater would be 12 amps x 0.5 ohms = 6 volts dropped from the transformer to the heater's outlet. 120-6 = 114 volts.

Typically the measured voltage would be around 117 volts at the outlet as the romex and service drop doesn't actually operate at 167*F; rather I am using these extremes to prove a point.

114 volts while less than 120 is technically legal and will not harm any appliances as neither would 126 volts on the high end. See page 2:

https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/p...ergystatus/powerquality/voltage_tolerance.pdf

 

[Chetlaham]

Incandescent light bulbs

Do not burn out due to the power supply. Rather there are two factors. First cold light bulbs will have a much lower resistance due to the electrical resistance of any metal varying with temperature. A cold bulb will pull much more current than a fully lit bulb. Second metal expands and becomes stressed when heating up. These two things, especially the stress on a thinned, weakened tungsten elements can cause it to break.

It is not uncommon for a broken element to cause the inert gas in the bulb to ionize as the two broken points on the hot element act like electrodes. Once the gas in the bulb ionizes, an arc forms across the leads, and due to the lack of ballast in essentially what has now become an arc discharge lamp, ever increasing amount of current are drawn until the fuse wires at the base of the socket melt. But not first without a bright blue flash.

Someone like Tolivic could explain it better then I can, but thats kind of it in a nut shell.

 

[qsd-dan]

"Speed Queen claims their boards are as reliable as their old mechanical controls."

That doesn't say much since the reliability on their mechanical timers were sort of iffy on the 400 and 500 series washers that get used by the typical 4 person household with at least 1 pet.

The TC5000 washers had tons of board failures which supposedly was fixed on the TC5003 models. The TR series had issued from what I read elsewhere. Their front loaders had board failures which can be seen in this older thread:

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?77855

Anybody can make claims, it's real world results out in the field that speak for themselves.

 

[windrivers]

So the question is, does unplugging appliances help make electronic boards last longer, or is it detrimental, or does it make no difference. So far all I see to support the unplugging of electronics is that you're lazy and deserve to have them destroyed if you don't, and people tearing down examples without seeming to understand the point being made, and then going on to explain voltage drop in a line which, as far as I can see, really has nothing to do with fluctuations, dropouts, spikes, or such. For example, light bulbs being turned on and off actually does have something to do with the power supply, that's what powers them. I admitted that it was not a perfect example, but in fact there are stresses on electronic equipment caused by power fluctuations and such, the light bulb is just an extreme example for illustration, energy and heat seem to go together, and even electronic components are affected. Probably everyone here knows ohms law, and probably about as many know that what works theoretically doesn't always work in practice in an imperfect world. Electronic components aren't ideal but suffer from real world limitations, for instance heat is normally an undesired byproduct that indicates inefficiency. It is also well known that even compact fluorescent bulbs will operate for more hours if left on, than being turned off and on daily.

As for the computer example, I have personally seen a power supply blow on startup. True, it was marginally powered for the specs of the hardware, but it had served for I have no idea how much time while the computer was running, but only blew right at startup. I don't think that is some big coincidence and goes along with what others have said about them being more likely to fail on startup. Experience tells me it's more than just computers.

So I mention surges, and I was thinking more of fluctuations so I may have not been clear, and get a lecture about "spikes". I ask about how capacitors are effected and get a lecture on line voltage drop. None of which convinces me I need to give everything that's electrically powered rest breaks and vacations.

 

[ea56]

Seriously?

They are freaking electrical appliances! They are meant to be plugged into the power source. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been buying appliances for well over 50 years. And not once have I ever read an owners manual that told me that I’d better unplug it periodically if i expected it to operate properly and/or last a reasonable length of time.

Now I have read manuals that advise to unplug an appliance if it isn’t operating properly to reset the electronic board, but this is meant to be the exception, not the rule. And something that only began being suggested from say 2000 on when electronic control boards first began to be used in most new appliances.

I’ll bet the rent that no one ever had to unplug any appliance periodically from the 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s or 90’s to expect it to operate properly.

Yes, old time electro mechanical timer controls failed from time to time, but they sure as hell weren’t as temperamental as some of the newer electronic control boards are. And I also realize that this is the way that new appliances are manufactured now, so I can either move with the times or not. So I move with the times but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

Old queen rant over.

Eddie

 

[Chetlaham]

Voltage drop, or ohms law, has everything to do with voltage fluctuations. It is why the measurable voltage at any outlet rises and falls through out the day.

Utilities will often boost voltage at the substation (through transformer tap changers) to off set voltage drop in distribution lines so customers at the end of the line miles out are within acceptable limits. 125 volts is not unheard of for homes near a substation.

As distribution lines and wiring within the home gets loaded down during peak demand, voltage can dip down to 115 volts, then creep back up to 125 volts as things are switched off.

This variant is normal and will not harm any electronics.

Spikes, which are technically called either voltage transients or voltage swells essentially can not occur unless some very adverse condition is taking place. Day to day activities like switching on appliances or light bulbs will not cause them.

I think what you are thinking of are themro dynamic related aspects- circuit boards may expand slightly as they heat up; then contract as they cool off. With failures most often making themselves known this change is taking place. This is different from anything going on with the voltage or current at the outlet.