Are there any new mechanical timer washers & dryers being sold

[tolivac]

Incandescent light bulbs have an internal fuse-one of the lead in wires that burn as the arc should form from a just opened filament.This is to protect the fixture if anything else.
Distribution transformer secondaries the center tap neutral is grounded inside the transformer case.So if a fault from a shorted sec winding,primay winding short to the secondary-the primary transformer fuse would blow immediately.Linemen test the transformer before replacing the fuse.The voltage at the customer is mostly adjusted at the customers transformer-its primary taps.At work our line voltage is high--supposed to be nominal 4160V but is often over 4200V or even 4300V.The equipment here is designed to "take it"Out 208/120V is often 215,218V.The taps on the 4160V-208/120V can be adjusted at our transformer.500Kka 208/120V.There are two of these transformers on an auto chageover-like on a generator.So if one transformer fails-switches over to the other.These are dry transformers.The origianl were 3 167Kva Westinghouse oil filled(PCB).When these were replaced-2 failed--pretty good after 60+ years.Any of the old transformers were sent to a place in Georga and incinerated.They have an incinerator that can take on large transformers.All that would be left is the copper and iron that would be salvaged.Transformers from three older transmitters went thru that fate.Slowly oil filled transformers out here are being replaced with dry.

 

[windrivers]

This variant is normal and will not harm any electronics.

Regardless of what's normal, electronic components do degrade over time. There are reasons why, and things that accelerate that degradation.

Respectfully, I don't think you understand what all those things are and what their full effect over time is. Especially as, again, you seem to be skirting the subject. We're, or at least I, am talking about the effects of constantly turning appliances on and off, you're talking about normal voltage fluctuations, and even they have to have some effect on the circuit, no matter how negligible it may be.

There are many things that are normal, whether mechanical or electrical, and that the products are made to withstand. That does not mean they have no effect on the wear and tear and life of the product.

So the question still stands as to whether continually unplugging appliances makes them last longer, but I'll probably get another lecture on power distribution systems and how it does or doesn't affect incandescent light bulbs.

To Eddie's point, not only do manuals I'm aware of not advise continually unplugging appliances, but if it was a thing, surely they would put on/off switches in a handy place instead of making you unplug them. (I'm almost afraid to mention that, some ignorant people might make easily accessible on/off switches another regulation. I guess I could at least live with that one.)

 

[qsd-dan]

"So the question is, does unplugging appliances help make electronic boards last longer, or is it detrimental, or does it make no difference."

I don't think it's detrimental at all. If you live in an area that gets regular lighting storms or brownouts, then it's definitely a good idea. Obviously, you can't do this with a fridge or freezer. You will be replacing outlets at a much faster rate with all of the plugging/unplugging cycles. If you want to go into OCD mode, you could hook them up to a well made UPS with a pure sine wave inverter.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Evidence this works?

When you call your cable company because you're having problems with your modem, what is something they are sure to suggest? "Can you please unplug it for at least 60 seconds?"
Sometimes they will suggest a total disconnect from the coax and power BECAUSE any type electric charge will maintain potential virus infections.

If you have problems with your cel phones, tablets, and other wifi devices, removing the battery and letting the device sit will often allow virus infections to be eliminated. I've experienced this several times.

Removing the battery on standard computers does a similar thing.

I purchased a $300 "NEW" but not charging smart phone for $60 in 2018. In original case and everything. It wouldn't recharge and thus wouldn't stay on.
I removed the battery for a half hour. That purged the virus that was keeping it from charging. I had to do that three times in a year and after that, never had the problem again.

On more than one occasion I've found electronic appliances that were giving off excess heat in the computer area and/or they were humming. The appliance itself was fine but the timer/computer, that was always energized, was wearing down and starting to overheat. Why? Because it had always been left ON.


I had a Whirlpool duet Sport washer I bought new. The timer started giving me problems about a year after I bought it.
I realized simply unplugging it reset it AND not leaving it plugged in when not in use solved the problem permanently.
Very simple.



Another ANALOG example. WHY do some people pine for those old appliances with analog timers?
Because they were/are reliable.

They may not have as many functions as an electronic timer but they usually work as needed, when needed.
And why do they work?
Because they are not running when the appliance isn't in use and thus don't wear out prematurely.
You turn the timer on, it turns on the small motor on the timer, it runs the cycle and then turns EVERYTHING on the appliance OFF when done.

An electronic timer doesn't do that. So what happens? They wear out or get infected and aren't reliable.  Typically cost $$$$ to replace.

How many times have we found a stove or wall oven with an analog or electronic clock. One of the problems: the clock no longer works.
Why should it if it's been running ALL THOSE YEARS.

If that analog or even digital clock had a toggle switch to turn it off when it wasn't going to be used for a timer or time baking it's probably fair to say it would still work WHEN IT's needed now.

On the flip side, what if we found that a washer, for example, with an analog timer was made so that timer motor ran ALL THE time and the on/off knob only turned off all the devices in the washer such as the motor,pump, water valve etc.
That timer motor was energized all the time. Do we really think that those old timers on these 50+ y.o. Maytags and others would still be working?

It's the same difference with electronic timers.

----

Is it my or your fault that <span style="text-decoration: underline;">electronic</span> dishwashers, washing machine, microwave ovens, computers, and other ELECTRONIC appliances don't have a HARDWIRED 120 volt ON/OFF switch installed?

 

Nope. Appliance manufacturers will cut corners where they can even if it means not installing a simple $1 toggle switch that would allow consumers to make a hard break of the 120 volt AC current to the machine.

 

And if a manufacturer can program in cheap electronic timers so customers have problems....you know the game.

No one in a group like this has any legit reason for not purchasing a few of these toggle switches and installing them in said appliance
AND
getting in the habit of simply cutting the power to those appliances when they are not doing their jobs.

 

It's also nice to know your electronics are protected from power surges, brown outs, black outs, and lightning strikes.

Another solution for things like electronic timered appliances like water softeners, lawn sprinkler timers, and modems is to install a simple $5 plug in lamp timer on the power plug and turn the power off when you know the appliance won't be running. Turn it off for at least a half an hour at say 3AM everyday. Most of these appliances have memory and will remember commands for several hours.

 

[bradfordwhite]

#21

A refrigerator with an electronic timer: one can simply install an appliance timer at the plug.

  

Program it to turn off for 15 to 30 minutes in the middle of the night when no one will be opening the door.  That period of time is not enough to affect the temperature.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Other proof

Cel phones were/are going through a trend of trying to make the battery difficult or impossible to remove.

 

Why?

 

In the now struggling and saturated cel phone market, this was a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">stupid decision,</span> and just gives another reason not to "upgrade".

 

Not only will it make these devices more difficult to recycle, it's going to frustrate consumers who want/need to do a quick battery swap.

 

So why do it?  I think its probably because they know they can program in simple viruses that are easily removed by de-energizing (removing the battery) and thus people would be more inclined to buy new when they're having a problem. 

It's also because the policing agencies have installed tracking devices in phones that, when de-energized, stop working. 

 

I WON'T be buying a product without a removable battery or that can't be modified to get access to said battery. 

The best phones with a removable battery and alternative solutions

These are the best phones with a removable battery. Unfortunately, these are a dying breed, so we've also listed some tips!

www.androidauthority.com

 

[windrivers]

I think there is an argument to be made for unplugging for areas with frequent severe storms and/or unreliable electric grids, which seems to be coming more common in poorly run states. I believe it is better to have controlled shutdowns than frequent brownouts, dropouts, and outages.

I do completely shut down my computer and modem/router at least once a week, which may at least be partly a hangover from my Windows days.

I haven't had any equipment lock up for I don't know how long, definitely not enough to unplug everything every day. I won't comment on the assertion that unplugging cures or prevents viruses other than I still get the idea there's some lack of understanding of electronics and electronic components.

 

[Chetlaham]

If a storm is coming by all means unplug valuable or expensive appliances. A direct lightning hit will go through anything and everything, including a few millimeters of air in an open toggle switch.

But other than that I'm not skirting as IMO there is absolutely nothing to worry about.

To answer your question I would say that unplugging appliances is more likely to lead to premature failures as components like resistors, transformers, transistors, solider joints, heat up when powered in a circuit and cool down when not. The constant heating and cooling cycle leads to stress, fatigue and eventual failure.

If you don't believe me look at the discoloration sometimes found around surface mount components. Measure the temps of discrete components on a microwave clock circuit board after its been plugged in for several hours vs when its been unplugged for a few hours. For example, the little 2 watt transformer will probably be painfully hot in 30 minutes. This is normal, most components are economized and run near there max power dissipation. Having them go through 24 hour thermal cycles for years on end just accelerates the degradation of said components.

But, I will be honest and give you my reasoning I use in my own home: What ever is gained (be it energy savings or longevity) by unplugging appliances is dwarfed by the risk of fire. Plugs and outlets, in particular 50 cent residential grade receptacles, lose the ability to hold plugs rather quickly when routinely subjected to inserting and removing cord caps. This leads to poor electrical contact where eventually a high resistance connection forms. High resistance creates heat (aka joule heating) and heat makes fire. Any service electrician can tell you of all the day to day service calls replacing melty or burned receptacles. The thing is, most folks don't replace the the cord cap(s) that were mating while the outlet was getting hot. So the oxides that for formed on the blades of the cord cap leads to overheating in the new outlet creating a revolving door of melty outlets.

(I do make an exception for things like irons, where I changed the outlet at the ironing board to an industrial or hospital grade version that can hold up routine plugging and unplugging) Other than that just plug it in and forget about it.

Just my 2 cents

 

[ryner1988]

Reply #22

@bradfordwhite, don't some higher end electronics automatically power everything down when not in use for several minutes? I'm thinking of more advanced modern washers such as those made by LG that have a power button which turns on all the displays and such. I'm not talking about the cheap electro-rotary controls on BOL modern washers like the VMW Whirlpools. I had one and I can tell you that you are right, that thing was charged up all the time. The lid lock would engage if the lid was closed and I turned off the bathroom light. The washer was presumably off but something was obviously still running.

 

[ea56]

Re: Reply#27

My “cheap” BOL Roper VMW washer has a “start” button that powers it on. I’ve never had the lid lock on its own with the machine off.

In three years of owning and using it I have twice needed to unplug it to reset the electronic control board and this hasn’t been a problem at all.

I’m not a complete Luddite. I actually do like the electronic control board on my new GE electric range. But I’d be just as pleased with analog controls and an automatic oven function controlled by a clock as opposed to the electronic control board. Time will tell whether or no this electronic control board will have a long service life, i hope that it does.

Eddie

 

[DADoES]

 
Electronic controls are always powered to an extent in sleep-mode unless the device of question has a mechanical "hard" power-off switch that disconnects current to the main board.  There's no other way the device can instantly wake-up to full function when a knob is turned, a membrane button is pressed, or a capacitive-touchpad is tickled.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Example of an electronic appliance with a hard wired disconnect.
Oster Kitchen center from around 1982

 

[bradfordwhite]

#29

"sleep-mode" just means the main appliance components aren't running and power to the LED screen is off.
The main computer is still ON, using electric, and susceptible to damages.

My much liked electronic air conditioner controller is always on even though the LED is off. Even when the screen is dark it still gives off a bit of heat and when you plug it in, it makes a beep sound.

Whenever I plug in my electronic Air Fry oven it beeps but there is no lights on the LED screen.

Some computers, when first plugging them in, the power lights will flash briefly but the computer won't come on until you push the power button.

--------

For whoever stated that powering up an electronic timer/controller is enough to cause it to fail- NO.
If that happened it's because the piece was already damaged, probably from being left in the ON position for too long.

 

[ryner1988]

Reply #28

Eddie,

For me, that strangeness with the lid lock usually happened when the machine would finish a load, the lid had unlocked but I hadn't yet opened the lid to remove the laundry. Someone would turn the bathroom light off at this point, and sometimes the lid would relock. Was kind of a PITA to get it back open.

Aside from this, I will say the machine gave me very few issues until it died a few months ago. Didn't much care for the sound of it, but apparently that's an irritation unique to me as others don't seem to have the problem. Or maybe I just had a particularly noisy machine.

Ryne

 

[kb0nes]

I can't imagine settling for the mediocrity of a simple mechanical timer today. Giving up the advantages of sensors and control capability based on some notion that they will last longer seems short sighted. I'll take the electronic controls over a timer for longevity today anytime. My electronic Kitchenaid DW is at least 25 years old now and that control works perfectly as it always has.

As for unplugging electronics or gosh powering off a cell phone daily (??!!), that is the best chuckle I've had today. I've owned 4 cell phones total since 1998 and never turned off a one of them! Never a failure on any of them... They don't need to rest

Surges are blamed for scads of electronics failures, but really seldom ever cause any damage. Put a whole house impulse suppressor in the service panel and don't worry about it anymore.

 

[good-shepherd]

and just gives another reason not to "upgrade".

We are going to be forced to "upgrade" out cell phones before the end of the year.

Verizon is shutting off 3G service and I won't be able to use my excellent LG flip phone anymore.

Any suggestions for basic phones? All the Verizon offerings have horrible reviews.

 

[ea56]

Douglas,

I had to upgrade my LG flip phone early this year because Tracfone, which is now owned by Verizon no longer uses the 3G network. I got an Alcatel Flip phone that uses the 4G network and I like it just fine. My husband had to do the same thing two months ago, and he went with the same Alcatel flip phone as I did.

Eddie

https://support.tracfone.com/devicehome?device=alcatel-myflip-2-a406dl

 

[bradfordwhite]

#34

My AT&T LG B470 I paid $20 for at Walmart in 2016 has been a super trooper all this time. Never had a problem. It worked on both ATT and T-Mobile.

Earlier this year ATT shut down their 3G so it no longer will work with ATT. I had already upgraded to a smart phone about a year earlier and so glad I did but I kept the phone for texting only and still have it on T-Mobile. Found out that in Oct They will be shutting their 3G network. ;-(...

That's progress.

 

[windrivers]

Basic Cell Phone

Just like you want washers and dryers with the old traditional mechanical controls, you want cell phones with the the old traditional rotary pulse dialers, like the Bell System Princess phones that came out in 1959. I think the Princess phones were extremely durable, I don't recall one ever breaking down in normal use.

But then, what do I know? I'm the last Luddite left in the world without a cellphone, so take my advice for what it's worth. My answer just seems to fit with the subject on this thread.

 

[ea56]

Jeff

I hardly ever use my Tracfone. I’ve had a Tracfone since 2002 and I have over 7000 mins of airtime. I just take it with me when I leave the home for a walk or to drive somewhere, since there aren’t pay phones around in most places now. I only use it for emergencies or when I need to text for some business or medical need.

I guess that makes me a semi-Luddite, LOL! My Tracfone Flip phone has internet capability, but I don’t use it.

What’s good about Tracfone is no monthly bill. I just buy a 1 year airtime and service card every year, and as long as my service stays active the airtime mins accumulate and are retained. I maybe make 10 calls a year on it, if that. Before I had unlimited long distance on my home phone I made all my long distance calls on the Tracfone, and even at that I never needed to add any mins between my annual card renewal.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 9/13/2022-20:38]