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Has nobody/anybody capitalized upon reducing the atmospheric pressure in a closed-loop dryer? Yes the vacuum pump uses power, adds cost and weight, as does the cabinetry to support subatmosphere barometrics. But it's SO much easier to evaporate water without adding heat by reducing pressure. And we're not talking surface-of-the-moon. Top-of-Mt-Everest will do, where the boiling point drops to 160F.
 
However,

'Well, I guess that's what many people said about front loaders, too. And then came Energy Star, Tier III Energy Efficiency and all that."

No, these came about due to government interference in a market economy.

And not too many souls are entirely happy about that but most just suck it up, complain to each other and accept what the good Gov't tells them.
 
Washman you're great!

"And not too many souls are entirely happy about that but most just suck it up, complain to each other and accept what the good Gov't tells them"

As Kung Fu would say, "You speak words of wisdom and truth." I will never conform to this Brainwashing, Eco Shouting, Gov't Tent Revival Meeting. Let them keep right on singing "Give Me That Old Time Eco Religion", while I continue to use my Anti-Eco Speed Queen top loader and dryer until they wear out. If Speed Queen stops making these washers and dryers, I will only use vintage machines.
 
Speaking of vintage....

Suppose you buy a new machine. You purchase a new one. Production of that new one costs resources (including water, if only for the bathrooms of the people who assemble it). Total up all the costs and resources and a set of figures. Then the old washer must be carted away and there are costs associated with that as well as with any recycling. Total those figures and add them to the first to get a grand total cost of the resources of replacing the broken machine. Now add yearly operations costs and get a grand total over 'X' number of years.

Now. take your vintage machine you've saved from recycling. Now, starting from the negative recycling cost (figured out above), start ADDING the yearly costs of using the less efficient, vintage machine over 'X' years.

How many years have to go by before the the cost of the vintage rises to the cost of the new one? I bet it'll be more than the life expectancy of the vintage machine!

Ergo, you're saving the planet by going vintage! You get to be a tree-hugger, thumb your nose at government over-regulation, AND have clean clothes all at the same time.

:-)
 
@ washman

 

That's what I was trying to say: government making descisions for us. While Germany as a whole seems to be greener than the US, not everyone is "totally, super, uber happy"about their washer taking three hours to do a cycle and the dryer taking another three hours. BUT our government made the discision for us and simply removed some appliances from the market place. Appliances that they deem to be too inefficient. This fall, vacuum cleaners and range hoods will be required to carry an energy label. The good thing about that label is that it also includes performance evaluations. So appliances that save energy but do a miserable can hardly be sold.

 

In real life, most consumers rarely use the high-efficiency cycles because they simply take too long and manufacturers have responded to that. Now, you get to chose between HE or fast(er) cycles. Case in point: Bosch's most efficient dishwashers take 3:15 hrs. for the energy label ECO cycle or 1:05 hrs. for the speedier version, if one presses the "speed" botton. Germany's most efficient washer from Bosch takes 6:30 hrs. for the energy label cycle or less than an hour for the "speed" button version.
 
Warmsecondrinse

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!  Yes folks, we have a winner!

 

Wow! Now I can be a tree-hugging vintage appliance owner without the guilt and shame of owning these new high efficiency Government approved  appliances.  I feel so much better about myself.  LOL!

 

But there are so many things I will never be able to enjoy with these Eco Government approved appliances.

Like:

1. Wearing less than truly clean clothing.

2. Waiting for hours and hours for my dishes and clothes to finish their cycle.

3. Getting to know my appliance repairman on a first name basis.

4. Having to buy new appliances every 5 years.

5. The joy of buying cleaning products, to acctually clean the inside of the appliances, so they won't smell. 

6. Having to wash my dishes before I put them in my dishwasher.

 

Oh well, I'll try not to cry too much.  LOL!

 

 

 

Allen
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Logixx

"BUT our government made the discision for us"

 

These words are what makes America different.

 

In the US "WE THE PEOPLE" are the Government.  We tell the Government our discsions and they are suppose to carry out our orders.  If they don't carry out the "Will of the People", then we will replace them.  This is why people here in the US are sick and tired of the Government telling us how to live our lives.  This is not the way our country was founded or suppose to work. 

 

The Government should keep their hands off my Laundry room, Kitchen, Food pantry, Bedroom, Thermostat, etc....... 

 

This is why many people, here in the US, are getting angry about how our appliances are being destroyed by the Government against our will.  Your appliances give you the choice of green or not green.  Our appliances here do not give us these choices.

 

I'm not trying to be hateful, just trying to show you the difference between the US and German ideas of Government.
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I don't think there is anyone in the government interested in the energy use of appliances. There are just a few civil servants who focus on such things and have nothing else to do. This energy saving has both been going on under republican and democrat presidents. Appliances are just not important enough to draw the attention of anyone important. It's not a political thing, it just happens no matter who is in office.

Sorry for getting off topic. Political discussions belong in the Dirty Laundry forum after all.
 
logixx, did I read you correctly

A washer (I assume washing machine) taking 6 and a half hours do to a load?

Really?
 
alineber great might be stretching things a little

Ok maybe a lot!

I just got done watching Wolf Blowhard totally get off the track reporting on the Malaysian air crash and it took Pat Smith of askthepilot.com to level set him and get back to what is known, rather than compare a 777 safety record to that of a 737 et cetera.

Anyway, I put this out because this is an example of what an out of control agenda driven media does. It ignores facts and makes up stuff to fill a time slot or to garner ratings.

Same thing with laundry appliances. Too much hyperbole and not enough common sense means we're stuck with on the surface "green" products that have a much less green impact when one gives it a bit of thought.

Which is my big beef with most people today; they are unable or simply unwilling to get past what the media tells them and they accept it as the gospel.

But we have our Speed Queens and you can rest easy knowing a lot of members here seek out and restore old school washers and get them back to pristine condition and use them daily. Some have posted vids or pics and it really is great to see that going on.

Now if I can just reach out to Frigilux and get him off the laundry pods and back to his usual powder or liquid, I will rest easier at night! :)
 
Since we are careering off topic anyway....

Governments do have a vested interest as increase energy use means the stuff has to come from somewhere. That means either building dams, burning fuels or nuclear. While the USA is blessed with abundant natural resources they are not infinite. Even then you cannot continue building more and more power plants much less increasing distribution systems forever. The ideal solution is going to involve some means of controlling demand as well.

European countries OTOH aren't always blessed with lots of fuels. Leaving aside the UK and other countries with access to North Sea oil reserves the most abundant fuel is probably coal, which brings it's own problems. Nuclear is rapidly falling out of favour with certain segments of the population but when you take that option off the table as France and Germany seem to be going, what replaces? Yes you can continue brining in natural gas from the East including Russia, but that is propping up Czar Putin of all the Russias.

As with so many other issues European countries can get away with top down edicts because of strong central governments.
 
Hey washman

You are so right, about the out of control agenda driven media.

"Which is my big beef with most people today; they are unable or simply unwilling to get past what the media tells them and they accept it as the gospel."

Lord isn't that the truth. When I have to deal with these people, I feel like Jean Stapleton in the 1971 movie Cold Turkey. There is a scene in the movie where she is about to go crazy, walking along the sidewalk, so she turns towards a light pole and start hitting her head against the pole. LOL!

I use Tide original powder in my Speed Queen top loader.

Thank you washman, Thank you Speed Queen, & Thank all of you vintage appliance restorers and sellers for helping me to keep my sanity. LOL!!!!
 
Yes washman, Bosch/Siemens Home Appliances is selling a washer that can wash up to 6.5 hours. Of course, you'll have to select a special cycle and press the ecoPerfect button to get it to wash that long and to achieve the energy savings that are promised on the big green sticker on the washer's front - but as long as people are only looking at the energy label and buy whatever uses the least energy that's what will be bought. I remember when I worked for Europe's biggest retailer of electronics: so many people would walk through the aisle with a piece of paper and actually note down the exact energy usage of an appliance. It was like they were obsessed with it. Sure, some would come up to me and ask for my advice but most didn't care.

We'll see where things are going. Recently, even Miele, a brand typically known for no-nonsense appliances, has added self-cleaning cycles to their washers and even dishwashers along with a warning in the manual against the too frequent use of the low-temp Eco cycle.

Oh well, I realize this is turning into a "The limited usefulness of the EU energy label" argument so I shall stop here.

Heat-pump dryer, eh? I don't have one, don't want one - unless I could embrace the idea of abandoning my one laundry day in exchange for doing laundry several days in a row or during the night.
 

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