are you sure you are using the 100% of the capacity of your washer?

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johnnyb

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Hello AW.org world again.
After 2 years away, its time to write a post again!
Some days ago , I visited a new friend in Austria. She is from US and she works here the last 3 years. I went to her place to make her some company as she was alone as she had to do some boring housework. One part of that work, was the laundry part.
I was SO surprised when I saw her washing machine! A LG 26Pounds (12kg) washing machine for a single person!!
I asked her why she has a such a big machine and the reply was, that sometimes she need to wash a lot of clothes so she needs space.
After shorting her clothes, she told me "now Look, its been 2 weeks without doing laundry and look how many clothes I have to wash!". She start putting the first load with towels and bedseets on the washer, and when she Finish, the washer was not even in the half loaded!! But her reaction was still something like "oh my god, its full" .
I dont know about yuo guys, but when I bought my first crapy machine 10 years ago (an Indesit one) , when they came to Install it, they show me that the full load is when you press down the clothes and there are 5 fingers available in the washer.
OK, I know that for synthetics the load should me less, and for delicates not more than 2KG.
One year ago I bought a Miele, and from the Miele center they installed again the machine and they show me how the full load looks like and AGAIN it was full and only 4-5 fingers available on the top when you push the clothes down.
I have a 6KG washer (around 13pounds)and within the week I m doing about 4 loads for 2 persons. (changing T-shirt 2 times a day and towels every 2 days)

how much do You load your washer? Until now, everything gets clean. and trush me guys, I cook a lot at home and the kitchen towels usually are extreme dirty with olive oil and tomatoes. and I dont use and booster.

Here is a video how much clothes I put when I do a regular cycle with mixed cottons.


 
I fill it as you say

right to the top until i cannot put any more clothes in it. This is how I was brought up to fill the machine and feel that anything less is just plain wasteful.

 

It is rare to see any videos on the internet of a U.S. front loader with anything more than a small handful of clothes in the bottom of the drum, I have certainly never seen one where the machine is more than half full.

 

This is probably why they think our machines are so "tiny" when infact, our machines wash about the same amount of clothes in one load as their enormous ones do.

 

 
 
Well, our Panasonic with 70l drum just is filled that the clothes are piled loosley. Then, when soaked, a not overloaded wash should not be higher the 3/4 of the drum.
I was wondering about how big US FL and TL are, like, 5 cuft. or even just 4, that would be twice as much as our washer. And a 4 person household is saying it is to small??? How is that we "only" got 2.5 and 2 cft, and we have bigger german washers...
 
I never run the washer if its not 100% full.
We are two persons and we never had a case that we need to run the washer with one pound of clothes. even the delicates we wash them on hand. I cant find any reason to wash sensitive items on the washing machine. for what? for the automatic rinse?

John
 
I personally...

Never fill the Drum more then 75%, as I want the clothes to have room to move, and tumble freely.

I've never understood why people fill there washer with so many Clothes, so much so that the door barely shuts close, and expect them to move around, or even get clean.
 
full up

I always fill to the top, once the clothes are wet they sink down to about 3/4 plenty of room to tumble about, plus my machine has high water levels so that helps aswell.

It often amuses me when some one is showing off the latest supersized machine and it has a just a few items in the bottom of the drum, ah well ;-)

Picture of the machine on a whites wash fully loaded, 4 pillow cases, double fitted sheet, double duvet cover, double mattress cover, T-shirts, T-Towels and other odds and ends

electron1100++9-11-2013-14-34-35.jpg
 
I plug mine half full

I have a traditional top load washer that is about 3.5 Cu.Ft and I feel that I can stuff it about half way or a little more and still get good circulation. Personally I am impressed at how much I can fit in one load especially compared to Whirlpool direct drive top load washers.
 
Sure my machines run full all the time...

Anything less than a full load is a waste of detergent and utilities.

Since the machines are designed to wash a full load (meaning the full available space of the drum) it's a good thing to use all that can be filled.

See the attached discussion I opened some time ago and all the debate it ignited...

Of course a "full" 5 kg load for the machine (I weighted it!) is made of:

2 bottom double sheets
2 top double sheets
4 pillowcases
2 face towels
2 bidet towels

and the drum can accept it nicely filling completely but without the need to compress the load.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?32773
 
This comes up time and again

...and it is, generally speaking, North Americans who do not fill a front load washing machine to capacity and maintain the 'duvet' or 'comforter' argument when it comes to buying something that, to European and possibly Australian eyes, is simply enormous.

I've told before of my encounter with a North American lady in a laundrette in the UK.

Confronted with 2 very large garbage bags of washing to do and nothing but a line of front load machines, she did look more than a little perplexed. She started to load and then went to shut the door when the washing only came to the lower edge....I jumped in and said she could 'put much more in' and she did...a few more items.

I commented again that 'you can put a lot more into these machines' to which she replied 'You can? Are you sure it'll wash?'. 'Yes, it'll wash - MILLIONS of Europeans can't be wrong'.

More washing went in until it was just under half full. I tried again. A couple more items. Just over half full now. That was it.

It took this disbelieving woman 3 machines to wash one bag of laundry.

Then she sat and watched intently.

Now I have no doubt that she had not used a front load machine before. However, this is a laundrette with 15-20 machines located in a busy area. There were other machines going that were filled to capacity. Do people not LOOK at what others are doing in order to learn how to do something?

Another example.

We had Canadian friends staying with us 7 years ago who were absolutely amazed at how much my 'teeny little' (5kg) washing machine could take - Janet stood there and watched as I just kept putting more and more in until the full laundry basket of washing was just 'swallowed'.

Sure, there was minimal space left for anything - but that's how you wash with a decent front load machine - FULL. Janet commented that she 'probably would have made that into at LEAST 2 loads...possibly 3' and then when it was done that 'I had no idea that you could wash so much, so well in a machine that size'

A distinct lack of education, exposure to good practices and manufacturers who are both tied to ideals that are strangling good machine performance (legislated efficiency) as well as scared witless of litigation means that ultimately the consumer loses.

There is also the way that capacity is represented in the US that doesn't necessarily reflect the capability of certain machines when compared to others. By that I mean that using the 'cubic feet' measurement alone does not tell a person how much something can wash - it represents a volume measurement. It could also be argued that the provision of a weight alone, such as kilograms or pounds, also doesn't give sufficient information to the user to enable them to get the most out of their machines.

Quite simply, BOTH should be provided.

Cubic feet/cubic metres - to show overall usable capacity

Pounds/kilograms - to show maximum capability (to wash a COTTON load containing items of mixed sizes)

If you look at the advert below and note the items shown at the end, it IS a 5kg/11lb load....manufacturers don't appear to do this style of promotion anymore. I'd argue that they know that the machines they sell that are rated at large weight capacities are simply incapable of having that much dry weight washing put in them in the first place - Whirlpool was caught out here 15 years ago. When their US made top load machine was filled to the claimed amount of washing it was so full the lid was at 45 degrees!

Maybe they were targeting size queens?

Anyway, when it all boils down to it, I agree with everything you've said above regarding 'capacity' and how to utilise it appropriately to get the most out of your machine both from an economy (water/detergent) perspective and from a mechanical one (balancing, optimised spin).

 
Washing machines

Front loading washing machines are entirely different animals over here in the USA. Ours simply cannot be treated in the same manner as the UK machines. Between the energy restrictions, lower water usage, flimsy component construction...etc. they simply cannot handle long term overloading and still produce clean clothing.

Malcolm
 
in the US almost all new machines have a load sense algorithm so they add less water to small loads. The energy star program all but demands it. I think the speed queen units are the only full line exception. I have a 5 cu. Ft top load and have seen the water level in the basket vary from 2 to 10+ inches. The only time I have seen any performance degradation from this is when I wash very dirty car and shop rags, even then I was not sure more water would have gotten them much cleaner. I know in the past machines were advertised with weights but there were serious questions regarding what the what fabrics were used in the test load. The practice is no longer used. I would say the machine is overloaded when the clothes stop turning over in the drum. Before the load sensing machine I would say I easily used twice the water per item washed. If I am typical I would guess most loads here are severely over estimated. It will be interesting to see how the new machine holds up using the much lower water amounts. If Malcolm is right I may be shopping again in a few years. I would guess the power needed to turn more clothes in less water is much higher.
 
100% every time

I usually add more water in my old Maytag and use a stick to push everything going around like it should. I do 1 load of white and one of darks when the hamper is full. I am on a septic system so its not good to do multiple little loads. I think the ex large button for water level must be permantly froze there.
 
European front load machines

are MUCH MUCH better (at least from what I've learned on this forum) than most U.S. front load machines.

We don't have a boil wash! (even though the Sanitary on my Duet gets plenty hot)
We don't have deep rinses (or at least that option)

It's not FAIR!

The drums are LARGE, however, you don't want to load it over 3/4 full, otherwise, the clothes will NOT come clean or be rinsed well. They need all the big drum room to move about all over instead of just barely moving around from being filled to the max.
 
almost all new machines have a load sense algorithm so they

European machines have that feature since they started being manufactured, either automatic (since the 80s) o manual selecting reduced load.

But it was also stated that while doing two half loads compared to a full load one wastes 50% of the resources because while the machine automatically reduces water level and electricity use, you can't go lower than a certain threshold to make it wash, so a full load wash is always recommended.
 
No wash day, no instructions, wash as I go...

I don't really follow any particular criteria to fill up the drum... in my case the less the better, so I can effortlessly cope with drying, folding and storing. Naturally... I don't mean to start the machine with a single pair of socks... like my lodger used to do... despite the fact that I was charging him below average rent!

It's not practical whatsoever for me to match everything to create a full load of laundry... I am perhaps too picky and I end up separating everything not just by colour and type of fabric... but by level of dirt as well. For example, I cannot wait to accumulate a full load of office clothes (my suits or shirts and trousers)... these are generally very lightly soiled and I don't like to put them together with the other clothes that I wear around the house or underwear in general. Same for my gym sweaty stuff... they all go in separate loads... and sometimes separated even further depending on the colour. This is not as complicated as it seems... I just do it mechanically and I often end up having many small loads (like 2 or 3 kgs). I do wash all the towels together reaching a reasonable size load... same for the bedding.

I think a big machine is handy for bigger items that can also be washed in a domestic environment... and while it remains true that a full load yields some savings over two half loads... I haven't personally found this to be an issue. I've been using a 6kg (13.23lb) machine and I was often filling it up to near capacity with certain loads... but since I've also been using a larger machine (8kg=17.64lb), by putting the same size load, it's regarded as a reduced load and as a result, the latter uses exactly the same amount of water and electricity as the smaller one.

Above all... for me, it's practicality! I can easily deal with a small load of clothes in the morning before leaving home to go to work... or in the evening before going to bed... or between dinner and watching a movie: wash it... dry it... fold it... whenever I have a window of time ;-)
 
@joe_in_philly... Definitely!

That's another thing I was meant to mention in my previous comment... small/medium loads come out of the dryer completely crease free ;-)

Euro size dryers are not that petite anymore nowadays... so, even a reasonably large load of clothes can be arguably wrinkle free after drying. I still find that large cotton sheets would be a bit of a challenge for the ironing maniac... not me.
 
European dryers

You can buy a 9 kg washer and a matching 9 kg dryer.
Gosh, even washer-dyers nowdays can cope with 6 kg of drying!
 
I always wash full loads where applicable. On TL washer to the first row of holes. FL I was advised to do a controlled wad and stuff not pack.

Towels, sheets, items of such a full load stuffed not packed once wetted are about 1/2 to 3/4, a load I did this weekend was
2 King sized sheets
4 pillow cases
2 Twin Sheets
1 pillow case

I have in the past also added the 2 full sized sheets and 2 pillow cases but it took forever to balance, so by lightening the load it finishes quicker.

Now for No iron, permanent press items. I usually only load about 1/2 to 3/4 full dry so they have room to tumble with minimal wrinkles. I do notice more wrinkles with the FL machine than I did with the TL.

The matching dryer is an 7.5 or 8 cu. ft monster and I was always told to load a dryer 1/2 full of wet items so they had room to tumble. For the record, the sheets were hung on the line to dry.

My main objective is the same with the dishes. I put dirty items in, I want to pull clean items out. I am satisfied with the outcomes with my German made, American machine. (Maytag -Duet clone)
 
I don't wanna start anything..

But, American (FL) Machines are a completely different level of Washing, compared to European anything.

It takes a lot of adjusting, to even get a decent amount of Tap COLD water, in the few "Rinse" cycles were allocated. Let's not even forget the fact that, it's hard to even get ours to fill with so called "Hot" and "Warm" temperatures.

Despite "advanced" load sensing senors, and electronic controls running them, there so Water conscious, that we simply can't overfill, and get clothes even barely damp.

I, along with other Americans, simply cannot comprehend the idea of loading them so tightly packed. Well, I guess, some can, but, I don't think there really paying attention to whats going on in the tub.

Don't even get me started on our Environmental & Eco Mess...
 
always full (hand width rule)

I pack both my EU front loaders and my US top loaders as full as they can get:

Front loaders: Just chuckablock minus a small air space (turning your flat hand on top of the clothes must still be possible).

US top loaders: upper row of perforation holes means full.

I don't own a US front loader, but I used a friends Bauknecht Big machine (equivalent to the Whirlpool HEt3 machines, or is it HE3T?) - the only difference: The Bauknecht is self-heating, the US Whirlpool is just mixing hot and cold water from the taps.

Besides, I HATE the Euro kilogram indication, most of the time it is a fake.
You simply cannot get an 8 or even 10 kg load into a 85 x 60 x 60 cm machine (6 or 7 kg may be a realistic maximum).
For any larger loads than 7 kg you need to have an oversized (meaning oversized for regular Euro kitchen measurements = American sized) larger washer with larger drum diameters (so it must be 90 cm high or more such as Bauknecht or Hotpoint Ariston).

Cubic liters or cubic feet are much more honest, I think = that is the real space volume.
Then again "normal" or "super" or "extra large", even "king size" or "canyon capacity" machines do not sound like neutral facts either...

Whatever: When clothes do not flop and tumble down (FL) or do not raise and get sucked down again respectively (agitator TL): That is when I have overfilled them. (A learning curve)
 
I believe the Bauknecht Big is equivalent to the Kenmore HE3t (made by Whirlpool), or Whirlpool's "Duet" version.

Some models have a built in heater, but not as powerful at the Big's heater. The HE3 is the Kenmore model without a heater, and the Kenmore HE3t has a heater. The "t" stands for "thermal." The Kenmore HE3, HE3t, HE4t, and HE5t are no longer made. The Duet name lives on with Whirlpool's current models.
 
I fill my 2012 Frigidaire FL to the very top of the drum with dry laundry when I wash. When the clothes get wet, they come about 3/4 of the way up to the top of the drum. An average load of whites in my house is five pairs of baker's pants, five white t-shirts, five pairs of socks and two or three bath towels.

In order to get hot water in the machine, I run the adjacent tap until it comes out as hot as it will go then I start the machine. The machine tries to dumb down the hot water by adding extra cold water, so I'm there with my two gallon watering can full of hot tap water. I usually add an extra two gallons to each of the "rinses" as well. Until I get my water level sensor modified, this is the only way to ensure that the clothes actually get clean.

I wrote Frigidaire about the machine not spinning after the wash cycle because the clothes were so knotted due to the low water level in the machine and received no reply, so I stand there like it was 1913 instead of 2013 dumping water into the machine with a watering can. Welcome to doing laundry in the 21st century...
 
The bigget load I put in my tl was 5 pants, 13 shirts, 3 towels, 13 underwear, and 13 pairs of socks. It was full to the middle of the top of the plastic balance ring when dry. After it added water it was about 2 inches below the top of the metal basket. It turned the load very well and when it was finished spinning the load was about 1/3 of the way up the basket. It did a great job on my two week bachelor load. I work in an office so none of the clothes were really dirty but it did get out a food stain or two. The dryer seemed to take forever, it does not seem to match the size of the washer. I don't really care about the water savings but it did save a lot of time. Three or four loads in one shot worked out great. I had to use cold water due to the colors but adding a long soak seemed to even things out on the cleaning front.
 
Since My AEG Lavamat Has Load Sensing Technology

That will display in percentage the amount of laundry in tub we can "see" what makes a full load.

Based upon two recent loads; one a mix of bath linen and cottons, the other a queen sized cotton blanket with a few terry cloth hand towels thrown in for balance measure, reaching 120% load factor each time.

This seems odd to me since each load once fully saturated with water left about 1/3 to 1/4 of free space between top of load and wash tub. In short much more than the proverbial fist distance, but never the less Lavamat said the weight was more than 100% of load factor/capacity.

Yes, the washer performed flawlessly and got the job done without all the banging, clanging and OOB problems of the Miele. However in interests of preserving long washer life have made notes and won't be doing such things often if indeed again.
 
Nope!

You see, when you start using the more "specialist" cycles on the Miele, rather than bog-standard "generic" cycles, one cannot load as heavily due to increased water usage/decreased maximum load sizes.

 

For instance, Automatic Plus has a maximum level of 5.5Kgs, Delicates/Minimum Iron 3.5Kg and Darks/Denim at 3Kg. These cycles also use far more water than Cottons (For example Minimum Iron Washing at Door-Seal level, Rinse 1/2 way up the glass), take less time and are much better on your clothes with the increased water-level.

The result of this is your clothes are cared for much more than when you just "stuff it in" on Cottons, you get better rinsing and your laundry is done in half the time (About an Hour for Delicates/Min. Iron/Darks/Denim). It might not save water, but it saves clothes, which ultimately is far better for the planet (Compare extra water usage with the manufacture and transport of clothes half way round the globe from China and having to replace these items more often)

 

The fullest we get is maybe sheets/towels, which are 3/4 of the way up the drum when dry. The sheets don't tumble too much, so we always use Pre-Wash and Water Plus at the very least (And always wash much hotter), adding a Soak if we have the time for it. This ensures the results are good.

 

But on full loads, Euro machines are quite a bit more "liberal" with their water usage. I think the American machines need to focus on being ability to wash the full load with water levels comparable to Euro machines, rather than just huge capacities that will never be realistically cleaned and rinsed.

The other issue is that Euro machines can be absolutely "stuffed," and good results can still be expected, even if the machine is only "tiny" in comparison to the load (5Kg machines can possibly loads larger than this with no issues).
 
Load Sensing

As Dj-Gabriele states machines in fact going back to the 70s as far as I remember have had load sensing, albeit not digital but mechanical via the water pressure switch, the machine will have minimum water level for washing at, if this drops due to absorbent loads the pressure switch senses the water/pressure drop and opens the inlet valve to raise the water to the required level so yes machines have had load sensing for a very long time, and of course being mechanical they are adjustable :-))).........not that I have ever fiddled with mine ;-O
 

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