Audio Equipment

[michaelman2]

Apparently time has really passed me by. I went to buy an audio receiver and some decent speakers so I could play my music loud with decent, deep bass and decent mid and high frequencies.

All that I could find at Best Buy (I know...)were people trying to sell me home theater set ups that could "really handle what I am looking for". Small speakers with small woofers are not what I had in mind. I have several Bose systems but really they do not put out what the old larger speakers did.

Anyone have any knowledge or advice on vintage audio. I have found two Yamaha tower speakers with 15" woofers. I am on a quest for a decent (and ample) vintage amplifier/receiver that will drive these and possibly two more large speakers..

My son "borrowed" my favorite Marantz 2270 and well...it is no longer (he was almost no longer when I recently found out about it..I digress)

Suggestions for a decent set up?

 

[hydralique]

Check in at audiokarma.org, lots of advice on vintage gear. The ability to drive multiple speakers is affected by the impedance of the speakers in question. I would tend to look for a power amplifier and a preamp rather than a receiver as power amps often had somewhat sturdier electronics and they're simpler to repair if needed - remember that lots of old electronics will need new capacitors to work properly.

 

If you really want to rock the whole neighborhood be on the lookout for some old horn loaded speakers like Klipschorns or some of the Altecs. They won't be cheap unless you're really lucky and they're too large for many rooms but they will make vast amounts of sound with comparatively little power. Like the electronics, speaker crossovers often need new capacitors so be ready for that.

 

[whirlcool]

I bought almost all of my stereo equipment on Ebay. All of the equipment is top notch and in perfect working order.

System

SAE P101 Preamp
SAE A301 Amp
AR-3a Speakers (overhauled and recapped by me) (A)
JBL 4311 Speakers (B)
Dual 701 turntable Pickering XSV-3000 cartridge

It's a great system. SAE equipment is great, but the preamp uses a LOT of switches and solenoids. These get sticky from time to time. And those parts are now NLA.

Don't overlook a pair of Bang & Olufsen S70 speakers. I have a set that's in my office now. They sound great and are usually less than $100.00 per set. These speakers sound much more expensive than they really are.

 

[kb0nes]

Hey Michael,

I'm not sure what your fidelity requirements and taste are, but I am sensing you have the need to be able to move some air at times At home I play a bit of the hifi game but I have worked as a live sound tech so I know the need for some volume at times too.

As for speakers you would likely do well with some 90's or earlier vintage Cerwin Vega or Klispch. 80's vintage JBL's could be great to but command a far greater price. Klispch KG4's would be a great choice and I often see pairs in good condition on my local craigslist for $250 or so. I have used a few different pairs of Yamaha speakers and overall I was never too impressed, but you could do a lot worse.

In general I am a bit leery of vintage speakers as age often doesn't do the surrounds and suspensions a lot of favors. When buying watch out for speakers that have foam surrounds, at about 15-20 years they often dry rot and crumble. They can be replaced/repaired but you should be on the lookout.

As for electronics I'd suggest again staying with offerings in the mid 80's or so. Much earlier then that and you may be looking at more restoration work. Replacing capacitors in 30 year old audio gear is almost mandatory. Its not all that tough if you are comfortable with the work but again be advised. Brands I think I'd recommend would be Yamaha and NAD for integrated amps. If you were to consider separate components I'd look at Hafler or Adcom perhaps. I can't offer a lot of advice on receivers, I have always avoided them, I want my tuner to be separate and away from the power amp heat.

 

[mattl]

Allen, what was involved in overhauling the Ar3a's?   Got a pair of AR's in my bedroom with very scratchy high range controls that I've thought about doing the same to.  Where did you get caps and what did you do.

 

[NYCWriter]

Do NOT do ...

… anything prior to 1980.

The "electronicization" of the '80s and beyond is what killed high fidelity.

Look for good solid equipment from the '70s from Pioneer and Kenwood.

 

[yogitunes]

the satellites and subwoofer are nice additions to a superior system, but not as a replacement in my opinion.....

its obvious to shop CL or ebay, and if possible an older style Stereo/TV repair house....we have one here, and they have some killer stuff, if not already refurbished, they have a room of soon to be units you can pick from.....I am holding out for a reel-to-reel to add to my setup......

I have a full seperate components of Pioneer from 1987.....nothing like the sound, and 4 huge endtable/nightstand speakers with 12" woofers(size matters)....which as mentioned the foam has fell apart, but nothing that can be repaired....and sounding good as new...and the programable remote operates 'everything'.....the best part is I can make the lights in the house flicker!!!...

may take some searching, but you will find exactly what your looking for...without spending a fortune....

I like speakers like this for additions or replacements......a variety of sizes and configurations and watts, wheels and stands available.....I always prefer 4, one for each corner....I am not one for surround with the echo, I like 4 speakers with full sound coming from each....something like these would run about 75-100 dollars each

 

[wayupnorth]

Speaker repair

My 30+ year old Bose Interaudio SA 1000's woofer foam surrounds were shot. I stumbled across a company called Simply Speakers out of FL and were able to buy new surround kits for under $20. It took less than an hour to install and they sound even better than new now. I recommend that company highly as they deliver what they promice at a very fair price.

 

[whirlcool]

When I overhauled my AR 3a's I put in new attenuator controls (sounds like you need them too) and replaced the capacitors with Solen caps. Depending on the model AR speaker you have most of the classic ones have fabric surrounds. Unlike foam surrounds which need replacing every 16-20 years or so fabric surrounds last forever. But if you take your time even a foam surround is not all that hard to do.

What model AR speakers do you have? The -3a's are considered by some to be the best speakers ever made. They sound so clean and clear.

There is a guy on Ebay in upstate New York which used to be an AR dealer. He has most all the parts for AR speakers reproduced at a higher quality. The controls he sells will never have to be screwed with again.If you can solder with a soldering iron, then you can overhaul your speakers. This guy even reproduced the original cabinet staining kit so you could sand your AR's down to the original wood finish (not veneer) and restain them and they'll look like new. Even the speaker cloth with AR logo's is still available.

I think the years 1982-86 were the best for stereo. After 86 all the stereo equipment manufacturers started to spend their R&D bucks on "Home Theater" and development of stereo just stopped right there.

 

[NYCWriter]

I respectfully disagree ...

I believe the best years for stereo ran from about 1966 - 1979.

Post-1980, we started seeing too much "digitization" and more bells and whistles that required more elaborate circuitry that only degraded the final signal going out to the speakers.

The "sweet spot" for audio was probably 1975-1979.

 

[kb0nes]

Ahh the 1980's

My earliest involvement with hifi was about 1977 and I first started acquiring equipment in the early 80's. I worked for a time as an audio service technician after graduating from electronics school in 1985-86.

Starting somewhere in the early 80's there was indeed a divide in the hifi audio world. I named it the "mid-fi slide" where many of the manufacturers that made decent hifi slid down into mid-fi to try to grasp the mass market. Some brands did this earlier then others, most of the common "receiver' brands for instance Pioneer, Marantz, Onkyo, Sony etc. Yamaha seemed to hold off another year before they took the dive about '86. Companies like NAD for instance never felt the need to slip. The sad thing was the many companies that slid up into the lunatic fringe hifi world where prices went through the roof and people are senselessly bilked out of money for "imaginary" improvements.

My personal take is that later is better provided you are still buying hifi gear, not mid-fi mediocre stuff. There were improvements that came to be in the late 70's that improved hifi electronics, the MOS-FET comes to mind as a major one. I don't subscribe to the luddite approach of "older is always better". To do that is to cast off technology improvements which have improved the state of the art. You can still buy great quality hifi today, although it is no longer mass market and you have to be really wary of not buying silly hype (of course you are likely to pay a lot more too). But if someone tries to tell you which direction to install your cables run away! Same thing for a $1000 AC power conditioner, I'd laugh in their face.

Old audio, greater then 20-30 or so years will very likely require a fair bit of service to keep it sounding good and maintain its reliability. As someone that enjoys that kind of tinkering/POOGeing (Progressive Optimization Of Generic Equipment), I like playing with gear, but others may want hassle free equipment. I very much enjoy the "agreeable distortions" of my old Heathkit and Dynaco tube amplifiers, but I'd never suggest them to someone that doesn't feel comfortable with a soldering iron in hand!

 

[firedome]

Having written and edited for a vintage audio magazine...

for a number of years, imo the later tube era mid-late '50s to early '60s was the true Golden Age, as the pioneering mid to late '60s transistor units often used Germanium transistors and were notoriously unreliable and often noisy. The first Fisher receivers as well as other early SS amplification attempts were terrible and known for odd-order harmonics generation, the main reason that Saul Marantz refused to go to solid state as late as he did. The mid-to-late '70s were the apotheosis for SS transisitor units, if you prefer the reliability of SS, and the dual power transformer Sansui units were some of the best, I only got rid of my AU717 finally last year, it was incredibly tube like, but still... In general Japanese stuff '72 or so up to around '80-ish was the best of that type, until they started to eliminate transformers and engineering in general fell to the machinations of the bean counters, as per usual.

Efficient AlNiCo magnet horn loaded or ported speakers in large cabinets work best with tube, we have JBL L-36s and Altec Valencia 846a with our tube powered amps of various stripes, had Klipschorns but find them a bit shrill. Best bang for buck in vintage tube amplification is imo properly restored Fisher, HHScott,or Sherwood units, common on eBay but be careful who you buy from , always best in person. Some cities have people who rebuild and sell this stuff, Atlanta would likely have some.

 

[yogitunes]

I had the so-called surround sound setup before surround sound was even thought of.....at the time, everyone was watching Michael Jackson's "Thriller" video thru their TV and a simple little 3x5 speaker......my thought was how to get the same sound and effect as if I was playing the actual album!......

most TV's did not have RCA output jacks for sound, not to mention video....it was mainly inputs only......thru my VCR/VHS/Beta, I used the outputs and with patch cords hooked into my reciever playing MTV in true stereo sound...not to mention movies....regular TV too as long as I used the VCR's tuner....

even the guys at the Stereo Supply House, after showing and explaing what I wanted to do, said I was wasting my time and swore it could not be done...and were shocked when I did it....not to mention anyone who seen and heard the system.....

 

[firedome]

Audio technology advances in recent years...

are, no doubt, best exemplified in speaker technology, and the many significant engineering breakthroughs since Edgar Villchur's acoustic suspension AR's by people such as Thiele and Small, Q factor, crossover advances, electrostatic and thin-film drivers, have contributed to speakers that are light years ahead of what tends to harmonize well with old tube stuff, however I like vintage-style sound for the 30s to 60s stuff I listen to. Many of these newer-principle speaker designs are quite expensive, and require upgrade of all the links in the audio chain, what I call the audio-phool trap, a constant desire to upgrade.
The wonderful electrostats and Magneplanars require very high power super-clean amps costing thousands, to be at their very best, and old ears can no longer resolve that degree of perfection. However the trend back to tube amplification, in guitar amps, and especially by ultra-high-end amplifers, and we're talking amps in the $10 to 80 thousand range, while marketed to some of those audiophool types, is for some very good reasons... a story of discovery that began in the late 1960s with an early-jazz loving French-Japanese gent named Jean Hiraga, but that is a story for another time.

 

[cfz2882]

best japanese era

for me,i think the best Japanese equipment era is ~1972-84,much after '84 seems Japan's labor costs started to go up and they started to really cut costs-my '88 onkyo cassette is decent enough,but nowhere near the quality of my '81 onkyo."silver"era pioneer-roughly up through 1983-is Waaay better than the later"black"pioneer in my opinion even though some of the "black" pioneer is still pretty good even though it is more cheaply made(I have quite a few "black"pioneer CD players and changers and a 1990 LD player)For stuff made early in the era mentioned,i once had a 1973"superscope"4ch. receiver that was really good.

 

[whirlcool]

I had a 77' Onkyo TX-2500 receiver for awhile. I bought it when the dealer told me that the Pioneer SX-727 I wanted was out of stock. I was very surprised at how good that Onkyo was. I had it until we were burglarized in 84'. I was always happy with that unit and I think Onkyo was very conservative with the power ratings.

 

[arbilab]

Your 4311s were what much of rock history was mixed on. They are near-field ear-level, don't do well on the floor and whatever you do don't lay them on their sides. Just like, don't ever stand L-100s--exact same components--on their ends.

Agree, late 70s was the perigee of fidelity. Don't get me started on germanium or what happened in the 80s and beyond. It becomes very difficult to name/find a design of any integrity beyond 1978. It was easier ten years earlier.

Today you've got 3 choices. Refurbishing Ebay/Craigslist classics from Macintosh/Dyna/Eico/select Marantz or Pioneer; audiophool stuff starting in 4 figures and isn't that good anyway, and throwaway junk from major brands that used to be good like Sony.

And what are you going to play on it? CDs? MP3s? Ugh.

 

[electron1100]

Vintage hi-fi

I generally agree with the comments on here about 70s Japanese hi-fi, I too run a vintage system from the 70s apart from a modern moving coil Denon cartridge and an 80s Nakamichi tape deck.
Build quality was superb as was sound on some of the equipment.
I agree that you can still get superb sounding hi-fi today but it is very expensive.
And also any product from the 70s will need checking over thoroughly, capacitors being the main items likely to give trouble plus the odd leaky transistor plus general servicing of the controls.
And the same for glorious valve gear if you can get it cheap enough definitely a worth getting hold of and pleasure to listen too.
Good Luck
Gary

 

[yogitunes]

when it comes to stereos of any type....when you get ones from the 60's and back, you have the concern of tubes, and finding replacements.....from the 70's transistors are far better, but may need replacement here and there as well....this also goes for anything newer....and like our machines, the vintage plays and sounds so much better than todays stuff, and of course lasting much longer.....

although I like component systems to mix and match.....nothing can take the place of traditional home stereos in console cabinets or combined with TV's.....that was always a rich sound.....nothing can take you back to childhood memories than my sister playing her Motown albums as we cleaned house when the parents were away....

I found this one at a thrift store for $20.00....and plays and sounds like a dream...although I have come across a few for an outrageous price too....

ths one also has many RCA jacks on the back to add in, or output, to other components...a nice addition to keep an eye out for....