2packs4sure
Well-known member
I meant Kenwood Basic C2
Kenwood Basic C2 not C1
Kenwood Basic C2 not C1
Audio Equipment
- Thread starter michaelman2
- Start date
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I have an old Fisher receiver that used to belong to my uncle. IIRC it's an 800c, hope to retrieve it from storage later this year and so will need to get on Audiokarma to find a vintage audio shop in SoCal who is experienced with old tube equipment. I'm a little leery of powering it up myself as I believe that's best done with a variac in the case of equipment that's not been used for years.
ovrphil
Well-known member
NYCwriter - nice system and I'm sure it sounds great. (not as nice, but I like my modest Sherwood S-7250 CP Receiver alot...sounds and feels like a more expensive unit).
tolivac: check out this link - there's some 5762;s at work - love the glow and hum!
[this post was last edited: 12/30/2013-17:44]
http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/tx/five.htm
tolivac: check out this link - there's some 5762;s at work - love the glow and hum!
[this post was last edited: 12/30/2013-17:44]
http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/tx/five.htm
firedome
Well-known member
A Variac
should be used to power up anything not used for 5 yrs or so to slowly re-from the electrolytic caps as a leaking cap can cause damage in a number of ways. Variac is the trade name for variable a/c transformers made by General Radio, I use one for that purpose. You can also make a "poor man's variac" using an ordinary ceramic light bulb socket, some lamp cord and mount on a board, vary the bulb wattage to vary the amount of current limiting.
The Fisher 800 is a nice AM/FM receiver, used 7591 outputs iirc. Lots of tube repair places around LA, our magazine was based in the SF area, tons of places to get tube stuff fixed there also.
should be used to power up anything not used for 5 yrs or so to slowly re-from the electrolytic caps as a leaking cap can cause damage in a number of ways. Variac is the trade name for variable a/c transformers made by General Radio, I use one for that purpose. You can also make a "poor man's variac" using an ordinary ceramic light bulb socket, some lamp cord and mount on a board, vary the bulb wattage to vary the amount of current limiting.
The Fisher 800 is a nice AM/FM receiver, used 7591 outputs iirc. Lots of tube repair places around LA, our magazine was based in the SF area, tons of places to get tube stuff fixed there also.
firedome . . .
Thanks for the advice. I've always had SS equipment from my first KLH Model 52 receiver to the Rotel amp and tuner/preamp I now have but it might be fun to mess with tubes if the 800 is serviceable. It's in good cosmetic shape though that means little electrically.
Hopefully whatever shop I find can deal with SS stuff too as the Rotel amp is getting a little scratchy in the left channel on occasion, but then again I bought it about '90 so can't complain. Luckily I found an identical amp on Ebay and just got it, haven't even powered it up but it should keep me going for awhile and later on give the option of using the pair as two bridged mono amps if I want.
Thanks for the advice. I've always had SS equipment from my first KLH Model 52 receiver to the Rotel amp and tuner/preamp I now have but it might be fun to mess with tubes if the 800 is serviceable. It's in good cosmetic shape though that means little electrically.
Hopefully whatever shop I find can deal with SS stuff too as the Rotel amp is getting a little scratchy in the left channel on occasion, but then again I bought it about '90 so can't complain. Luckily I found an identical amp on Ebay and just got it, haven't even powered it up but it should keep me going for awhile and later on give the option of using the pair as two bridged mono amps if I want.
OvrPhil-Link is great-EXACTLY the tranmsitters I have worked on-WashDC and Baltimore.
Firedome--the GZ34/5AR4 was a good tube-you can use it in place of 5U4--But be sure to check the filter cap voltage ratings-there is less voltage drop across the 5AR4-so it can pop filter caps if not rated high enough. Do like its indirect cathode-matches the warm up time of other tubes.Some folks like to use 1N4006 to replace main rect tubes like 5U4 and 5AR4-advise them against that-the HV supply is then energized instantly-since no load(tubes not warm yet)that puts a stress on filter caps and tubes as they heat up.Prefer to use he tubed rectifiers in that case-use the diodes only to replace bias diodes.
NYCWriter-like those Kenwoods-the Kenwood tuner and intergrated amp shown-see those in Hi-Fi shops in the 70's 80's.Nice gear.Too bad the FM stations could not match the quality of that tuner-and yes,sometimes tuners like that or similar were used as monitors in radio station studio sites.You could listen to other stations to get an idea of the audio processing gear they are using.Too many FM's are processed to sound just as bad or worse than AM's.Have an HD-Digital FM tuner-only station that uses HD here is NPR.Sounds really good,though.
Oh yes,not only Hi-Fi encounter such likes as 12AU7,'X7 and6550,EL34,6L6 in many fender,Ampeg,and Marshall "G"fiddle amps.Some players are REAL particular on the tubes you put in their amps-often more so than the Hi-Fi guys.And for most G-amps-the output transmformers are designed deliberately to saturate so as to "crunch",Fuzz" or distort the sound.Totally unlike Hi-Fi.Marshall transformers were more like Hi-Fi-they didn't do that so much.Known folks that have these amps-to them 120-150 W loud from Mr. Marshall-FATHER OF LOUD!!!Just something about those amp heads on a stack of 4 12" speakers-you want to crank it up and FEEL it!Bass players especially love this.
Firedome--the GZ34/5AR4 was a good tube-you can use it in place of 5U4--But be sure to check the filter cap voltage ratings-there is less voltage drop across the 5AR4-so it can pop filter caps if not rated high enough. Do like its indirect cathode-matches the warm up time of other tubes.Some folks like to use 1N4006 to replace main rect tubes like 5U4 and 5AR4-advise them against that-the HV supply is then energized instantly-since no load(tubes not warm yet)that puts a stress on filter caps and tubes as they heat up.Prefer to use he tubed rectifiers in that case-use the diodes only to replace bias diodes.
NYCWriter-like those Kenwoods-the Kenwood tuner and intergrated amp shown-see those in Hi-Fi shops in the 70's 80's.Nice gear.Too bad the FM stations could not match the quality of that tuner-and yes,sometimes tuners like that or similar were used as monitors in radio station studio sites.You could listen to other stations to get an idea of the audio processing gear they are using.Too many FM's are processed to sound just as bad or worse than AM's.Have an HD-Digital FM tuner-only station that uses HD here is NPR.Sounds really good,though.
Oh yes,not only Hi-Fi encounter such likes as 12AU7,'X7 and6550,EL34,6L6 in many fender,Ampeg,and Marshall "G"fiddle amps.Some players are REAL particular on the tubes you put in their amps-often more so than the Hi-Fi guys.And for most G-amps-the output transmformers are designed deliberately to saturate so as to "crunch",Fuzz" or distort the sound.Totally unlike Hi-Fi.Marshall transformers were more like Hi-Fi-they didn't do that so much.Known folks that have these amps-to them 120-150 W loud from Mr. Marshall-FATHER OF LOUD!!!Just something about those amp heads on a stack of 4 12" speakers-you want to crank it up and FEEL it!Bass players especially love this.
firedome
Well-known member
Fisher 800
hydraulique, I have the feeling that if you begin listening to the Fisher 800, if properly restored, you won't want to go back to the SS units... at least that's been my experience with 98% of folks I've known who are willing to give them a try. They aren't as finicky as most will have you believe and with the proper speakers you may hear things in the music you've never before experienced.
Tolicvac, as you know the guitar guys have different desires as they like distortion and to be able to control it, but also have driven up demand for vintage tubes to the point many are absurdly expensive... if you had told an old radio guy 40 yrs ago that 2A3 or 45 tubes would be in the 100s of dollars, he'd had thought you should be committed. Now all the SE guys love them too. Not to mention WE 300Bs, priced in the 1000s! Luckily all the necessary tubes we still need for Hi-Fi are available new and the quality of them has improved drastically. .. btw where did you work in Baltimore, I was there 1950-1999.
hydraulique, I have the feeling that if you begin listening to the Fisher 800, if properly restored, you won't want to go back to the SS units... at least that's been my experience with 98% of folks I've known who are willing to give them a try. They aren't as finicky as most will have you believe and with the proper speakers you may hear things in the music you've never before experienced.
Tolicvac, as you know the guitar guys have different desires as they like distortion and to be able to control it, but also have driven up demand for vintage tubes to the point many are absurdly expensive... if you had told an old radio guy 40 yrs ago that 2A3 or 45 tubes would be in the 100s of dollars, he'd had thought you should be committed. Now all the SE guys love them too. Not to mention WE 300Bs, priced in the 1000s! Luckily all the necessary tubes we still need for Hi-Fi are available new and the quality of them has improved drastically. .. btw where did you work in Baltimore, I was there 1950-1999.
For the Baltimore work-I helped out a contract man who helpted out various stations--Lots of work for the WEBB,and 860Khz-can't remember the call right now.WITH,WBAL,WCBM-and a few others. Same sort of thing at DC-employed by WPGCAM&FM,helpted several stations there-and toured sites in both towns.Great market for radio in the older days!Now its just "Mikey D" radio-stations sound the same anywhere becuase of common large owners.The radio industry sucks now-don't recommend it.Some of the transnmitters were in bad neighborhoods-esp DC so worked with my freind for safety.Also helpted out another guy in Richmond.Channel 8 and their 50Kw AM-can't remember the call or frequency right now.Rebuilt Ch#8 RCA TV transmitter.Took several midnight visits.But the pay was alright.
Yes,audio tubes I am as you can figure an older audio and even RF guy-over 45 yrs worth.Just think the prices on tubes and tube gear these days is criminal-remember most of it is old tech-even for the common power HI-FI- audio tetrode tubes the tech is coming 60Yrs!And older "SE" triodes--now about 100yrs!And keep in mind most of this circuitry is SIMPLE-so its pretty easy to deal with-And remember the tube circuits in the backs of RCA and GE tube handbooks-breadboarded many of these for fun!They worked pretty well,too!The audio tubes we know most-the 6V6,6L6 families were improved greatly during the war and just after-other tubes like 6550,7027,KT88,EL34,EL84 came out during the fifties.Then it always makes me think of those 300's at that surplus shop-and 45's common in older radios.Great output tube-300 and those were seen in the sound systems of the first "talkie" movies!Those WE amps from those days are now as valueable as gold!esp among the SE Hi-Fi fans.Most amps that are SE are built using that early WE design.The reentrent horn speakers for theaters then were incredibly efficient only a few watts needed to work them.Their response wasn't so good-mainly for voice-but they worked-and sad so many of them got thrown out.Collectors of old theater stuff loved them!
Yes,audio tubes I am as you can figure an older audio and even RF guy-over 45 yrs worth.Just think the prices on tubes and tube gear these days is criminal-remember most of it is old tech-even for the common power HI-FI- audio tetrode tubes the tech is coming 60Yrs!And older "SE" triodes--now about 100yrs!And keep in mind most of this circuitry is SIMPLE-so its pretty easy to deal with-And remember the tube circuits in the backs of RCA and GE tube handbooks-breadboarded many of these for fun!They worked pretty well,too!The audio tubes we know most-the 6V6,6L6 families were improved greatly during the war and just after-other tubes like 6550,7027,KT88,EL34,EL84 came out during the fifties.Then it always makes me think of those 300's at that surplus shop-and 45's common in older radios.Great output tube-300 and those were seen in the sound systems of the first "talkie" movies!Those WE amps from those days are now as valueable as gold!esp among the SE Hi-Fi fans.Most amps that are SE are built using that early WE design.The reentrent horn speakers for theaters then were incredibly efficient only a few watts needed to work them.Their response wasn't so good-mainly for voice-but they worked-and sad so many of them got thrown out.Collectors of old theater stuff loved them!
firedome
Well-known member
Wow...
WITH "Tiger Radio", WBAL, WCBM, Johhny Dark, Galen Fromm and friends... I grew up listening to all of those, it'd be fun to hear some old tapes of those days!
Yeah the really far-out tube cult fringe, starting with the Japanese in the late '60s, made all of the good stuff really scarce...there were guys advertising for it in the back of the electronics mags in the '70s/80s and exporting it by the container load to Tokyo and Hong Kong, early theater stuff, RCA, and WE in particular was & is venerated to the extreme, Walt Bender of AudioMart in Crewe VA was one of the biggest US boosters until he died a few years ago. If you want to see the outer limits to which things have gone nowadays, check this out:
http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com crazy, you'll need to hock your house, but gotta admit the stuff is pretty darn cool!
WITH "Tiger Radio", WBAL, WCBM, Johhny Dark, Galen Fromm and friends... I grew up listening to all of those, it'd be fun to hear some old tapes of those days!
Yeah the really far-out tube cult fringe, starting with the Japanese in the late '60s, made all of the good stuff really scarce...there were guys advertising for it in the back of the electronics mags in the '70s/80s and exporting it by the container load to Tokyo and Hong Kong, early theater stuff, RCA, and WE in particular was & is venerated to the extreme, Walt Bender of AudioMart in Crewe VA was one of the biggest US boosters until he died a few years ago. If you want to see the outer limits to which things have gone nowadays, check this out:
http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com crazy, you'll need to hock your house, but gotta admit the stuff is pretty darn cool!
firedome
Well-known member
860 kHz
WFBR maybe?
Tube manuals: still have tons of 'em, RCA, Sylvania, GE, Philco, along with an RCA tube caddy full to the brim.
WFBR maybe?
Tube manuals: still have tons of 'em, RCA, Sylvania, GE, Philco, along with an RCA tube caddy full to the brim.
Firedome you helpted me remember the Baltimore places Roger and I contracted at.Was sort of fun--WCBM was indeeed oldies-their oldies library was stored in their station generator room-racks and shelves full of records,reel tapes,and carts.Bet that stuff would be so valeable.Worked with them when they were running the news format.Their two RCA 10U transmitters were so beautiful!!!!Loved working on them.These had enhanced power supplies and with the old Kahn "Symetra-Peak" audio processors you could run them to even mr James Marshall would approve LOUD&CLEAN-100 % neg mod and 200% positive-despite this was loud and so clean.Made table radios stand out.The RF PA had cathode resonaters for better efficieny-the stage could use 2 5762 tubes instead of 3 as in RCA 10H transmitters.The modulators were 3CX3000A7-higher audio gain than 5762.
WFBR had 1Kw transmitters at the time Gates 1G and 1F.later than went to 2.5Kw--Harris SX 2.5-solid state transmitter.WBAL was 50Kw-they had a really PRETTY RCA 50Kw Ampliphase rig built in the 60's pretty midnight blue cabinets-chrome framed glass tube veiw windows-and to top it off a blue panel above the transmitter cabinets with RCA AMPLIPHASE spelled out in large chrome letters-so beautiful!And with the tubes going even prettier!lets see-4-250 glass first RF,than 4CX5000 drivers,then 6697 finals.They had a Continental 317 still in its shipping crate-offered to install it for them since I just installed one at WPGCAM.WBAL already had someone arranged to install their 317-DARN!
Good you still have tube manuals-I have a lot around,too.Used to buy them anytimne I saw one at a used bookstore.Us tube guys have to have and use our FIREBOTTLES!!!!HOT GLASS!!!
WFBR had 1Kw transmitters at the time Gates 1G and 1F.later than went to 2.5Kw--Harris SX 2.5-solid state transmitter.WBAL was 50Kw-they had a really PRETTY RCA 50Kw Ampliphase rig built in the 60's pretty midnight blue cabinets-chrome framed glass tube veiw windows-and to top it off a blue panel above the transmitter cabinets with RCA AMPLIPHASE spelled out in large chrome letters-so beautiful!And with the tubes going even prettier!lets see-4-250 glass first RF,than 4CX5000 drivers,then 6697 finals.They had a Continental 317 still in its shipping crate-offered to install it for them since I just installed one at WPGCAM.WBAL already had someone arranged to install their 317-DARN!
Good you still have tube manuals-I have a lot around,too.Used to buy them anytimne I saw one at a used bookstore.Us tube guys have to have and use our FIREBOTTLES!!!!HOT GLASS!!!
The Oswald Mill Audio site is interesting.The Garrard and Thorens TT's he mounts on the slate bases-sometimes those were encountered at smaller radio stations.The SP10's were most often used in production studios-not for typical airplay-in fact during the later 60's onward-most stations were "carting" their records-the records were recorded onto an endless loop tape cartridge something like an 8-track.The broadcast cart ran at higher speed-the pinch roller was in the cart machine not in the cart as in 8-tracks.The cart had two "Q" tracks-one for stopping the cart after the cut played,another -aux Q track to be used for other purposes-turn on a light when a cut is about to finish or start another cart or event.The carts were first used for commercials.Radio jocks liked handling the carts over records.Direct drive TT's such as Technics were often victims of the jock coffee or soda spill-this would cuase the TT to no longer turn.I have fixed these by taking the table completely apart-washing the boards in water and alcohol.then let them dry completly-putting it back together-then the TT was fine--ready for the next spill?Idler drive TT's QRK-Russco would suffer when DJ's would leave the table "in gear"the speed lever set on 33 or 45.This would leave a flat in the idler wheel-most of the time could be fixed by running the TT at 78 for several minutes.Otherwise the idler would be replaced common part at many radio stations at one time.Leave notes on the TT's to keep the speed lever in "neutral" the neutral notch in between the speed ones.This declutched the idler wheel.
Can agree with the Oswald site on horns-they do give high efficiency-cinemas still use 'em today.And the horn can "force" sound thru perf projection screens better than unhorned speakers.The older WE horn were made from plaster-so they could break if not handled properly or carefully.The Japanese really like Altec VOTTS-Voice Of The Theater systems-Altec still makes 'em not for cinemas but for to import to Japan for Hi-Fi.Iam sure cinema suppliers now have a good stock of VOTT's retired when cinemas went digital-So VOTT fans may be able to get some that way-just keep in mind the unit will be flat black in color-so it won't reflect light projected on a screen when it was used in the theater.And like the "Monarch" speaker shown on that OMA site the wings used in between "bass bins" on the VOTTS to focus the bass.Usually those wings were heavy particle board or plywood.-and painted flat black.Can agree-that OSWALD stuff is pretty neat-807-aanother workhorse tube-we use 'em here in our Continental transmitters-as a first stage RF tube and as modulator drivers.In those transmitters 845 tubes are used as modulators.They impose audio on the power amp tube grid bias supplies thru a special dual secondary mod transformer.Cathode follower primary from 4 845 cathode follower 845.
Can agree with the Oswald site on horns-they do give high efficiency-cinemas still use 'em today.And the horn can "force" sound thru perf projection screens better than unhorned speakers.The older WE horn were made from plaster-so they could break if not handled properly or carefully.The Japanese really like Altec VOTTS-Voice Of The Theater systems-Altec still makes 'em not for cinemas but for to import to Japan for Hi-Fi.Iam sure cinema suppliers now have a good stock of VOTT's retired when cinemas went digital-So VOTT fans may be able to get some that way-just keep in mind the unit will be flat black in color-so it won't reflect light projected on a screen when it was used in the theater.And like the "Monarch" speaker shown on that OMA site the wings used in between "bass bins" on the VOTTS to focus the bass.Usually those wings were heavy particle board or plywood.-and painted flat black.Can agree-that OSWALD stuff is pretty neat-807-aanother workhorse tube-we use 'em here in our Continental transmitters-as a first stage RF tube and as modulator drivers.In those transmitters 845 tubes are used as modulators.They impose audio on the power amp tube grid bias supplies thru a special dual secondary mod transformer.Cathode follower primary from 4 845 cathode follower 845.
firedome
Well-known member
807s
are basically a 6L6 with a plate cap, Heathkit and others used 'em in early post WWII Williamson type amps as they were common as dirt as surplus, I was kind of amused when I saw OMA using them as their latest "discovery" for their audiophile amps... used to have at least 10 NOS RCAs in boxes for a future project but sold 'em of a few years ago figuring it was one more thing I'd never get to.
The OMA speakers are quite amazing, but one would need to sell their house to buy them... you'd have the best sounding tent around, though!
We've been big fans of the Altec VOTTS for a long time, we had the "home" version Valencia 846s here up to last year, the only difference is slightly smaller wife-approved walnut cabinets instead of the flat black MDF in the A5 and A7s, and the 800Hz aluminum sectoral horn is mounted inside the cabinet instead of on top. Amazing speakers, but they have to be played at top volume to be really appreciated, just too much for our 20' room, a social hall, or maybe Bill Gate's living room, would be more like it. Like K-horns, they are so efficient 2 watts will drive you our out of the house. They went to our son who has a really big playroom, along with HHScott tube power, and were replaced here by more appropriately sized-to-the-room JBL L36s, powered by a tube Sargent-Rayment EL84 basic stereo amp, and controlled by a Sargent-Rayment tube preamp, uncommon and very sweet units rarely seen today. Replaced all caps with Illinois (yellow) polypropylene caps, which seem to be the best suited for keeping the vintage sound. Sold off a Thorens and a Lenco some years back during the CD rage, but looking for a vinyl playing replacement, still have the old LPs.
are basically a 6L6 with a plate cap, Heathkit and others used 'em in early post WWII Williamson type amps as they were common as dirt as surplus, I was kind of amused when I saw OMA using them as their latest "discovery" for their audiophile amps... used to have at least 10 NOS RCAs in boxes for a future project but sold 'em of a few years ago figuring it was one more thing I'd never get to.
The OMA speakers are quite amazing, but one would need to sell their house to buy them... you'd have the best sounding tent around, though!
We've been big fans of the Altec VOTTS for a long time, we had the "home" version Valencia 846s here up to last year, the only difference is slightly smaller wife-approved walnut cabinets instead of the flat black MDF in the A5 and A7s, and the 800Hz aluminum sectoral horn is mounted inside the cabinet instead of on top. Amazing speakers, but they have to be played at top volume to be really appreciated, just too much for our 20' room, a social hall, or maybe Bill Gate's living room, would be more like it. Like K-horns, they are so efficient 2 watts will drive you our out of the house. They went to our son who has a really big playroom, along with HHScott tube power, and were replaced here by more appropriately sized-to-the-room JBL L36s, powered by a tube Sargent-Rayment EL84 basic stereo amp, and controlled by a Sargent-Rayment tube preamp, uncommon and very sweet units rarely seen today. Replaced all caps with Illinois (yellow) polypropylene caps, which seem to be the best suited for keeping the vintage sound. Sold off a Thorens and a Lenco some years back during the CD rage, but looking for a vinyl playing replacement, still have the old LPs.
Yes,basically the 807 is an enhanced 6L6 tube-the plate connector on top was to reduce capacitance when the tube is to be used for amplifying RF.Their interelctrode cpacitance is slightly less than a 6L6-6L6 was designed primarly for audio,the 807 for RF applications.And the 807 can run at higher plate voltages than 6L6-the supply for the first RF stage in our CEMCO transmitter that uses an 807 is 1500V.6L6 would burn up at that voltage.The 807 tubes in the audio stages of the CEMCO's run at 1500V,3000V supply voltage-they are resistence coupled voltage amps-so the actual plate voltage is less.We have a stock of NOS RCA 807 tubes for the CEMCO's they work better than the "new" Chinese made ones.
On the Film-Tech cinema discussion site members on that site speak of powering VOTTs from the headphone jack of a transistor radio-fills the auditorium they say.Remember the Altc Valencia-wanted some so bad-but they were too big for my apartment.The neighbors-probably wouldn't appreciate them unless I could play music they like.
It would be neat to listen to the OMA speakers-but speaker listening can be dangerous to the wallet-YOU MAY LIKE THEM!Then is when your ears are bigger than your pocketbook!
On the Film-Tech cinema discussion site members on that site speak of powering VOTTs from the headphone jack of a transistor radio-fills the auditorium they say.Remember the Altc Valencia-wanted some so bad-but they were too big for my apartment.The neighbors-probably wouldn't appreciate them unless I could play music they like.
It would be neat to listen to the OMA speakers-but speaker listening can be dangerous to the wallet-YOU MAY LIKE THEM!Then is when your ears are bigger than your pocketbook!
firedome
Well-known member
Luckily...
by the time you hit the mid-60s, hearing has so deteriorated that you can't hear the difference!
by the time you hit the mid-60s, hearing has so deteriorated that you can't hear the difference!
ovrphil
Well-known member
..or like Pete Townshend, you're lucky to hear at all ...with hearing aids.
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