newwave1
Well-known member
Anybody any idea the running cost of a modern. A rated machine that uses say 60litres of water?
Darren
Darren
average running costs.
- Thread starter newwave1
- Start date
Help Support :
We have one of those [awful if you ask me] pay as you go electric meters, and a load of washing normally takes about 5-10p to wash (dependent on temperature) and something nearer to 30 or 40p to dry - that's with our washer which has an A+ label...
Probably not much use... but hope it helps
Jon xxx
Probably not much use... but hope it helps
Jon xxx
haxisfan
Well-known member
It's not as straightforward as it seems...
Average cost? What's given by most manufacturers is based on one cycle and one programme only... which is usually the Cotton 60 and uses something in the region of 1kw per load (for a 5-6kg machine).
This might vary greatly depending on the cycle you use. Most of the electricity used by the machine happens during the heating stage and this usually takes 25-30 minutes to bring the water temp from 15 degrees to 60 degrees with a somewhat 2000w immersion heater... hence 2000x25/60= 833w... plus another few hundred watts used my the motor during the whole cycle gets you to a very similar figure as that quoted by manufacturers. The water heater might come on again for a few more minutes at a second stage during the main wash but this would only take a few more minutes (hence a few more watts) thanks to the ability of the outer tubs in modern washers to keep the temperature (once reached) for longer periods.
If you know what washer are you going to use, note down the power of its immersion heater and be ready to calculate once you know the time it's going to be on to reach the desired temperature (if you use a synth cycle the water is usually heated to temperature only once)... then have your electricity tariffs to hand to know exactly how much you're paying for a wash load ;-)
PS: your electricity board might use tiering of multiple rates... you might even be lucky enough to run an economy 7!
Average cost? What's given by most manufacturers is based on one cycle and one programme only... which is usually the Cotton 60 and uses something in the region of 1kw per load (for a 5-6kg machine).
This might vary greatly depending on the cycle you use. Most of the electricity used by the machine happens during the heating stage and this usually takes 25-30 minutes to bring the water temp from 15 degrees to 60 degrees with a somewhat 2000w immersion heater... hence 2000x25/60= 833w... plus another few hundred watts used my the motor during the whole cycle gets you to a very similar figure as that quoted by manufacturers. The water heater might come on again for a few more minutes at a second stage during the main wash but this would only take a few more minutes (hence a few more watts) thanks to the ability of the outer tubs in modern washers to keep the temperature (once reached) for longer periods.
If you know what washer are you going to use, note down the power of its immersion heater and be ready to calculate once you know the time it's going to be on to reach the desired temperature (if you use a synth cycle the water is usually heated to temperature only once)... then have your electricity tariffs to hand to know exactly how much you're paying for a wash load ;-)
PS: your electricity board might use tiering of multiple rates... you might even be lucky enough to run an economy 7!
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
I remember of you linking modern Indesit machines (so do I 
)
So I selected a model that uses 60 L of water per wash and did the math for you:
Model "IWE 7168 B" 7 kg wash.
It has a staded consuption of 1,19 kWh of energy for a 60°C wash.
At 40°C the energy consuption would be some 30% less, so let's say 0,83 kWh.
Cold wash would be 0,25 kWh.
To have the price to run the machine just add up the terms multiplied by utility cost and voilà!
With my rates it would be:
1,19 kWh x 0,21 €/kWh = 0,25 Euro for the electricity at 60°C
0,83 kWh x 0,21 €/kWh = 0,18 Euro for the electricity at 40°C
0,25 kWh x 0,21 €/kWh = 0,05 Euro for the electricity at cold
Detergent cost assuming 20 cents per wash.
Water cost at 2,50 euros per 1000 litres
60 litres x 2,50€ / 1000 l = 0,15 Euro per wash
Ammortization over 10 years of the machine at 250 washes per year, with a purchase cost of 330 GBP (379 Euro)
379 Euro / 2500 washes = 0,15 Euro
So, assuming 20% washes at 60°C, 60% washes at 40°C, 20% washes in cold you have an average cost per wash of 0,17 Euro:
The total average cost per wash of the machine in the end would be
_________________________________________________
0,17 + 0,15 + 0,5 + 0,20 = 0,67 Euro per wash
over the total estimated lifetime of the machine
_________________________________________________
)So I selected a model that uses 60 L of water per wash and did the math for you:
Model "IWE 7168 B" 7 kg wash.
It has a staded consuption of 1,19 kWh of energy for a 60°C wash.
At 40°C the energy consuption would be some 30% less, so let's say 0,83 kWh.
Cold wash would be 0,25 kWh.
To have the price to run the machine just add up the terms multiplied by utility cost and voilà!
With my rates it would be:
1,19 kWh x 0,21 €/kWh = 0,25 Euro for the electricity at 60°C
0,83 kWh x 0,21 €/kWh = 0,18 Euro for the electricity at 40°C
0,25 kWh x 0,21 €/kWh = 0,05 Euro for the electricity at cold
Detergent cost assuming 20 cents per wash.
Water cost at 2,50 euros per 1000 litres
60 litres x 2,50€ / 1000 l = 0,15 Euro per wash
Ammortization over 10 years of the machine at 250 washes per year, with a purchase cost of 330 GBP (379 Euro)
379 Euro / 2500 washes = 0,15 Euro
So, assuming 20% washes at 60°C, 60% washes at 40°C, 20% washes in cold you have an average cost per wash of 0,17 Euro:
The total average cost per wash of the machine in the end would be
_________________________________________________
0,17 + 0,15 + 0,5 + 0,20 = 0,67 Euro per wash
over the total estimated lifetime of the machine
_________________________________________________
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
mis-typed!
_________________________________________________
0,17 + 0,15 + 0,15 + 0,20 = 0,67 Euro per wash
over the total estimated lifetime of the machine
_________________________________________________
with the assumptions stated before
_________________________________________________
0,17 + 0,15 + 0,15 + 0,20 = 0,67 Euro per wash
over the total estimated lifetime of the machine
_________________________________________________
with the assumptions stated before
3beltwesty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,057
Here depreciation swamps water and soap costs
Here in the SE usa my water (with sewer and system upgrade bond charges etc) costs about 1 cent per gallon. ie 100 US gallons costs 1 US dollar. If one uses zero water; one still gets a base charge per month. the 1 cent (1/100 dollar) per gallon is the incremental charge.
Thus my 1976 FL westy uses 20 to 30 gallons; or 20 to 30 cents
My 2011 LG FL washer uses about 10 to 15 gallons; or 10 to 15 cents.
The power consumption of the 1976 machine is 0.22 KWHR; = 3.3 cents @0.15 $/KWHR
The power consumption of the 2010 machine is 0.11 KWHR; = 1.7 cents @0.15 $/KWHR
(power consumption without the internal heater on)
The water here is super soft; thus very little soap/detergent is required. A giant jug that is marked 84 Loads that I buy only on fire sale might be only 5 dollars and last twice the number of loads. ie per wash cost thus is 500 cents/168 loads or about 3 cents. In practice; I consider the soap cost to be nil. My total cost in soap per year is less than 10 dollars; more like 5 bucks.
Here the HIGHEST cost really is the depreciation. If the new 2010 LG cost me 642 with tax ; I have mentally accepted it will die in 5 years and be worthless. With 2.5 loads washed per week; 5 years is = 2.5 *52.2 * 5 = 652 cycles. Thus each wash cycle costs about 1 dollar. If I am lucky and it dies in 10 years; the cost per cycle is one half ie 50 cents.
Here in the SE usa my water (with sewer and system upgrade bond charges etc) costs about 1 cent per gallon. ie 100 US gallons costs 1 US dollar. If one uses zero water; one still gets a base charge per month. the 1 cent (1/100 dollar) per gallon is the incremental charge.
Thus my 1976 FL westy uses 20 to 30 gallons; or 20 to 30 cents
My 2011 LG FL washer uses about 10 to 15 gallons; or 10 to 15 cents.
The power consumption of the 1976 machine is 0.22 KWHR; = 3.3 cents @0.15 $/KWHR
The power consumption of the 2010 machine is 0.11 KWHR; = 1.7 cents @0.15 $/KWHR
(power consumption without the internal heater on)
The water here is super soft; thus very little soap/detergent is required. A giant jug that is marked 84 Loads that I buy only on fire sale might be only 5 dollars and last twice the number of loads. ie per wash cost thus is 500 cents/168 loads or about 3 cents. In practice; I consider the soap cost to be nil. My total cost in soap per year is less than 10 dollars; more like 5 bucks.
Here the HIGHEST cost really is the depreciation. If the new 2010 LG cost me 642 with tax ; I have mentally accepted it will die in 5 years and be worthless. With 2.5 loads washed per week; 5 years is = 2.5 *52.2 * 5 = 652 cycles. Thus each wash cycle costs about 1 dollar. If I am lucky and it dies in 10 years; the cost per cycle is one half ie 50 cents.
3beltwesty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,057
How long the new 2011 LG will work before a major failure is a total crap shoot. I only wash about 2.5 times a week; thus it might last 15 years too. Or I might have one with a poorly fitting seal due to bad luck and the bearings go in 3 years. Here we have lightning issues; many times TV's, radios, modems, phones die just due to power surges. One has surge protectors and stuff still gets zapped. This is a wild card issue
passatdoc
Well-known member
The math is all different on this side of the Atlantic, because our machines have hot and cold water fill.
I have a gas water heater (storage tank model, not a tankless unit) with a pilot light, which continuously burns a small amount of gas. The heater is seven years old. Newer models by law have electronic ignition and no pilot light. My FL washer (Frig 2140) does not have an internal heater. Even when a FL here does have a heater, it activates only when the user selects a water temperature hotter than the hot water line temperature. (this also speeds wash times since there is no time used to heat the water).
During the warmer months, when I don't heat the house, the monthly gas bill is $12, of which $5 is the fixed cost (fee for operating the gas company's system, even if you use zero gas). So I consume $7 worth of gas per month, for heating water (shower, washer, dishwasher), drying clothes in the gas dryer, and cooking on a gas range (gas oven plus gas cooktop). I don't know what fraction of my hot water is used by the washer and dryer, but at most it would be perhaps $3-4/month.
I don't know my washer and dryer's power consumption. However, my non-winter electric bill typically is $35 of which $10 is "fixed cost" to operate the electric system and $25 is actual power consumed. I typically use 240-280 KWH/month and pay about $0.12/KWH. This is all on the lowest "price tier" of usage. They calculate how much you need based on your climate, and they establish four price tiers based on usage. I never exceed the tier one limits and thus enjoy the lowest costs. Tier 2 is a few cents/KWH higher, but tier three and tier four are drastically higher.
I have a gas water heater (storage tank model, not a tankless unit) with a pilot light, which continuously burns a small amount of gas. The heater is seven years old. Newer models by law have electronic ignition and no pilot light. My FL washer (Frig 2140) does not have an internal heater. Even when a FL here does have a heater, it activates only when the user selects a water temperature hotter than the hot water line temperature. (this also speeds wash times since there is no time used to heat the water).
During the warmer months, when I don't heat the house, the monthly gas bill is $12, of which $5 is the fixed cost (fee for operating the gas company's system, even if you use zero gas). So I consume $7 worth of gas per month, for heating water (shower, washer, dishwasher), drying clothes in the gas dryer, and cooking on a gas range (gas oven plus gas cooktop). I don't know what fraction of my hot water is used by the washer and dryer, but at most it would be perhaps $3-4/month.
I don't know my washer and dryer's power consumption. However, my non-winter electric bill typically is $35 of which $10 is "fixed cost" to operate the electric system and $25 is actual power consumed. I typically use 240-280 KWH/month and pay about $0.12/KWH. This is all on the lowest "price tier" of usage. They calculate how much you need based on your climate, and they establish four price tiers based on usage. I never exceed the tier one limits and thus enjoy the lowest costs. Tier 2 is a few cents/KWH higher, but tier three and tier four are drastically higher.
GAS WATER HEATERS
Jim I have not seen gas storage type water heaters with electric ignition, the burning pilot actually helps keep the water hot. I know that some direct vent models have electric ignition but I drought it is required.
Jim I have not seen gas storage type water heaters with electric ignition, the burning pilot actually helps keep the water hot. I know that some direct vent models have electric ignition but I drought it is required.
passatdoc
Well-known member
It may be a California requirement, but new heaters here appear to have a pezio-type ignition. The price went up by several hundred dollars a few years ago and the rise was blamed on new emissions and ignition requirements. The lowest price you'll see in say Lowe's for a 40 gallon unit is around $500 now.
Historically, people around here have regarded gas water heaters as more or less disposable entities, which you'd have to replace every 5-7 years (but which cost <$300). Now that the cost is $500-800, with lower end units carrying only a 5-6 year warranty, I am starting to regard them as something to maintain carefully in order to prolong its life. My neighbors recently replaced their heater (40 gallon storage heater), using a professional plumber, and the cost was over $1100 with labor. Heater is easily accessible in the garage, the labor was not a premium charge for a hard to access location. Of course, they could have saved money going to Lowe's and using their install service, but they are elderly and find it easier to pay a professional to do it (there are also some guarantees re: the installation that you get with a professional plumber.
On my end, my heater dates from March 2003. I drain and flush the heater twice a year. Every two years, I replace the anode rod. I've been told that if this level of maintenance is performed, the unit can last 20-30 years. I'm not sure I would have bothered to do it to prolong the life of a $300 unit, but now that replacement costs can exceed $1000, you can bet that I'll do the recommended maintenance.
One of the limitations for thoroughly draining a tank is that the valve or faucet at the bottom of the tank has a small opening, too small for larger sediment pieces to flow out. I replaced the valve with a 3/4" brass valve, and the first time I did this, out came so much sediment that it looked like someone dumped a load of aquarium gravel all over my driveway. That's what had accumulated over eight years and was too bulky to exit via the valve.
Historically, people around here have regarded gas water heaters as more or less disposable entities, which you'd have to replace every 5-7 years (but which cost <$300). Now that the cost is $500-800, with lower end units carrying only a 5-6 year warranty, I am starting to regard them as something to maintain carefully in order to prolong its life. My neighbors recently replaced their heater (40 gallon storage heater), using a professional plumber, and the cost was over $1100 with labor. Heater is easily accessible in the garage, the labor was not a premium charge for a hard to access location. Of course, they could have saved money going to Lowe's and using their install service, but they are elderly and find it easier to pay a professional to do it (there are also some guarantees re: the installation that you get with a professional plumber.
On my end, my heater dates from March 2003. I drain and flush the heater twice a year. Every two years, I replace the anode rod. I've been told that if this level of maintenance is performed, the unit can last 20-30 years. I'm not sure I would have bothered to do it to prolong the life of a $300 unit, but now that replacement costs can exceed $1000, you can bet that I'll do the recommended maintenance.
One of the limitations for thoroughly draining a tank is that the valve or faucet at the bottom of the tank has a small opening, too small for larger sediment pieces to flow out. I replaced the valve with a 3/4" brass valve, and the first time I did this, out came so much sediment that it looked like someone dumped a load of aquarium gravel all over my driveway. That's what had accumulated over eight years and was too bulky to exit via the valve.
3beltwesty
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,057
Gas pilot gas burned per month.
Here is so interesting info. My business only has a gas heater with two pilots as its only natural gas appliances in use now. My mid April to mid May 2011 gas bill was 24.25 bucks. The base charge is 12 bucks for a commercial building; the added extra is 13 CCF of gas @0.69770= 9.07 dollars. Then the Katrina storm damage rider is 0.75; the muncipal franchise tax is 0.84; the state sale tax is 1.59.
Normally I turn off the two manual pilots once it is springtime; but forgot. I sprayed all the gas connections and found no gas leaks/bubbles. Once we had so joints by the meter leak a tad eons ago.
This I did a google search for the gas consumed by a pilot; and found a Pittsburg gas grill's number of 7 CCF per month. ie 700 cubic feet.
Tonight I turned off the two pilots
13 CCF divided by 2 is 6.5 CCF; darn close to 7!
I am sort of amused how close their estimate is!
ie :
"How much does it cost to have the fireplace logs or heater pilot light on?
A pilot light will burn approximately 1,000 BTU’s per hour (720,000 BTUs per month). 100 cu. ft. of gas (1 CCF) = 102,700 BTUs therefore the pilot uses 7.01 CCFs per month Current cost per CCF of natural gas = $1.10* therefore the cost is about one penny per hour or $7.71 per month"
Here is so interesting info. My business only has a gas heater with two pilots as its only natural gas appliances in use now. My mid April to mid May 2011 gas bill was 24.25 bucks. The base charge is 12 bucks for a commercial building; the added extra is 13 CCF of gas @0.69770= 9.07 dollars. Then the Katrina storm damage rider is 0.75; the muncipal franchise tax is 0.84; the state sale tax is 1.59.
Normally I turn off the two manual pilots once it is springtime; but forgot. I sprayed all the gas connections and found no gas leaks/bubbles. Once we had so joints by the meter leak a tad eons ago.
This I did a google search for the gas consumed by a pilot; and found a Pittsburg gas grill's number of 7 CCF per month. ie 700 cubic feet.
Tonight I turned off the two pilots
13 CCF divided by 2 is 6.5 CCF; darn close to 7!
I am sort of amused how close their estimate is!
ie :
"How much does it cost to have the fireplace logs or heater pilot light on?
A pilot light will burn approximately 1,000 BTU’s per hour (720,000 BTUs per month). 100 cu. ft. of gas (1 CCF) = 102,700 BTUs therefore the pilot uses 7.01 CCFs per month Current cost per CCF of natural gas = $1.10* therefore the cost is about one penny per hour or $7.71 per month"
With 2 gas fireplaces I have figured with our gas rates it costs about $10.00 per month per pilot light. When these are shut off for the summer we consume maybe 1 or 2 therms per month since it is only the gas dryer running,so my bill is basic charges for the month.
Jon
Jon
Costs
Hi Darran, is it for your new home?? best way of finding out is if you leccy has one of those smart meter options, I have British Gas for the electric (Best Deal Plan) and use a smart meter with a monthly plan, its great to see what you use and and you pay monthly only for WHAT YOU USE...
The best thing for washer use is if its used to capacity, I kow you had the large LG but would you need one so big now etc??
Running costs for the fagor washer dryer on a 60d wash 3kg cottons load worked out at 18p wash and 37p dry (1200rpm)
Does it have a washer already in??
cheers, Mike
Hi Darran, is it for your new home?? best way of finding out is if you leccy has one of those smart meter options, I have British Gas for the electric (Best Deal Plan) and use a smart meter with a monthly plan, its great to see what you use and and you pay monthly only for WHAT YOU USE...
The best thing for washer use is if its used to capacity, I kow you had the large LG but would you need one so big now etc??
Running costs for the fagor washer dryer on a 60d wash 3kg cottons load worked out at 18p wash and 37p dry (1200rpm)
Does it have a washer already in??
cheers, Mike
newwave1
Well-known member
Hey mike!
How ya doin? Ahh thanks for the insight there. My flat doesn't have a machine yet. I'd toyed with the idea of sticking my 1991 zanussi turbodry washerdryer in but its 3 flights of stairs and obviously alot more costly than if I buy something more current. I've become accustom to larger loads. When I have my boys I soon rack up a big load of washing! So I'm contemplating leaving my indesit with my folks and seeing if my dad will buy me or help me toward a Washerdryer as there isn't the room for separates.
I won't rely on it for heavy use I will do what I do now which is stick things on airers and on the line when possible and then finish them off in the dryer.
Darren
How ya doin? Ahh thanks for the insight there. My flat doesn't have a machine yet. I'd toyed with the idea of sticking my 1991 zanussi turbodry washerdryer in but its 3 flights of stairs and obviously alot more costly than if I buy something more current. I've become accustom to larger loads. When I have my boys I soon rack up a big load of washing! So I'm contemplating leaving my indesit with my folks and seeing if my dad will buy me or help me toward a Washerdryer as there isn't the room for separates.
I won't rely on it for heavy use I will do what I do now which is stick things on airers and on the line when possible and then finish them off in the dryer.
Darren
stick things on airers and on the line when possible and the
Good evening Darren Guess who is still awake ??
Now what I want to know is ...Where will you put the airers your on about and where is the washing line?????
Did you finish painting?
Austin..xx
Good evening Darren Guess who is still awake ??
Now what I want to know is ...Where will you put the airers your on about and where is the washing line?????
Did you finish painting?
Austin..xx
newwave1
Well-known member
Hey austin!
Makes 2 of us love! Yea got the painting finished ta!
Lol I was talkin about currently...but I do have an airer or 2 I will stick around the flat lol
D x
Makes 2 of us love! Yea got the painting finished ta!
Lol I was talkin about currently...but I do have an airer or 2 I will stick around the flat lol
D x
aegokocarat
Well-known member
baumatic do a huge 10kg lg esque washer dryer which is also avalible as a washer only version. i belive it is made in Koria
Why Not Take the Indesit......
Im thinking why not take the Indesit to the flat & then if at all possible just have a White Knight compact dryer (like the one your ex has *wink wink*) in a cupboard that you can wheel out to near a window when you need it.
It's not ideal but if youre paying all the bills yourself you won't wanna be using a dryer much anyway, and the 3kg capacity of the White Knight is probably not alot less than what you can realisticly dry in a washer dryer anyway.
I find putting anything more than a pair of jeans and a couple of shirts in the 4 washer dryers i've tried results in everything being creased to hell. That amount of washing in a small dryer would result in far less creasing & would probably be quicker to dry too.
Liam.
Im thinking why not take the Indesit to the flat & then if at all possible just have a White Knight compact dryer (like the one your ex has *wink wink*) in a cupboard that you can wheel out to near a window when you need it.
It's not ideal but if youre paying all the bills yourself you won't wanna be using a dryer much anyway, and the 3kg capacity of the White Knight is probably not alot less than what you can realisticly dry in a washer dryer anyway.
I find putting anything more than a pair of jeans and a couple of shirts in the 4 washer dryers i've tried results in everything being creased to hell. That amount of washing in a small dryer would result in far less creasing & would probably be quicker to dry too.
Liam.
newwave1
Well-known member
Hey Liam,
I had considered that option but there is really nowhere for it to live. If i put it on the surface above it would encroach on my draining board.
I'm considering the options but I may have to take my oldschool zanussi turbodry or bosch wff2000. I may even put that in mums house and take my indesit as im rather fond of the indesit.
My dad has sold the zanussi essential rather too promptly then we both would have had a machine now! grrr!
Darren
I had considered that option but there is really nowhere for it to live. If i put it on the surface above it would encroach on my draining board.
I'm considering the options but I may have to take my oldschool zanussi turbodry or bosch wff2000. I may even put that in mums house and take my indesit as im rather fond of the indesit.
My dad has sold the zanussi essential rather too promptly then we both would have had a machine now! grrr!
Darren
