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Yes, the TW series sacrifice some lumen efficiency in exchange for greater CRI. The lumen efficiency of a TW bulb is equivalent to that of a comparable CFL, which is still far more efficient than an incandescent bulb, even a halogen.

I gather the reduced efficiency is due to the neodymium doping of the outer glass of the bulb, which turns it slightly blue and absorbs some of the spectral peaks to make the CRI higher. It's explained in the pdf files I linked in the earlier threads.

Funny, though, when I looked at these bulbs at HD I didn't see a bluish tinge to them. I may purchase one for my desk lamp to see if it helps. Currently I'm running a FEIT daylight 75 watt equiv because I find it gives good light and apparent CRI.
 
I also have a surplus of CFL's. For a while I'd scarf up four, five, six packs that were on heavy discount at Costco and elsewhere, with the subsidies coming from the state public utility. Now they are kind of overflowing storage, lol. Probably will return some to the store. Charities won't take them, even if they are brand new.

I got into CFL's early... I remember buying one with a magnetic ballast back in the 1980's. It worked ok, but was heavy and bulky and probably not all that energy efficient (probably had a terrible power factor). I even bought fan/utililty bulb sizes, which I tried using in the fridges and freezers, but they just didn't perform all that well at cold temps. They've since all been replaced with small low wattage LED bulbs, which work great in fridges and freezers.
 
I have enough CFL bulbs to last a lifetime

Actually in my opinion you shouldn't stock up on CFL lamps as the electronics in them usually age quite badly so even when storing them with care you can't expect a longer life than 10 years or so before the capacitors start leaking or dry up or something else in the poor Chinese electronics they have begin to act up! :S
 
Sidebar: This institution where I'm an inmate uses CFLs in the foyer/lobby. In preparation for HUD inspection, a month ago they had electricians replace all the CFLs, more than half of which were dead. A month later, almost a quarter of them have already failed. These are in open fixtures designed specifically for CFL.

Beside the toxicity when disposed, too many corners were cut. Perhaps if the fixtures were built with competent electronic ballasts, but they wanted self-contained socket compatibility and Chinese componentry. Which isn't worth that much even if achieved, because at least in my residences of memory, almost all fixtures were enclosed and CFL specifically will NOT work in an enclosure. CFL as deployed is a fail.
 
LED bulb power supplies contain capacitors as well as like CFL bulbs-I think if you "bank" the bulbs for no more than 5 years you should be OK.Or you can test and cycle them in your fixtures perodically.This would keep caps formed.For proper cooling of the ballasts electronics in either type of bulb they should be run in unenclosed fixtures-and those that are in dry areas unless the bulb or is packaging says its OK to install them in a damp or outdoor fixture.
 
 
Is there a reliability issue with LED bulbs operated base-up?  I've had that problem with CFLs, early failure.  Tried CFLs in a bathroom fixture (not fully enclosed, but base-up), two bulbs lasted less than 6 months each.

I have numerous in-ceiling floodlight can fixtures.  CFL flood-type bulbs, which one would assume are intended for such fixtures, age faster than the norm as well in my experience.  A couple/three failed early, the others age toward taking longer for start-up, somewhat discolored and slightly dim.

I know CFLs have the contained power electronics but are they more toxic for disposal than "regular" fluorescent tubes regards to mercury content?
 
Electronic Aging

Stockpiling CFL's or LED lamps shouldn't be that big a problem, at least for reasonable time frames. While it is true that electrolytic capacitors don't do well with age, as long as storage temps are moderate 10-15 years isn't likely to cause harm. To some degree I believe that the idea of electrolytic capacitors losing "forming" with age has improved with technology, at least assuming the caps aren't junk to start with.

It is true that the most likely component to fail in one of the LED lamps will be one of the capacitors in the power supply. There has been a movement in the manufacturers to eliminate the electronic capacitors for reliability.

I've been playing with CoB (Chip on Board) modules from Seoul Semiconductor. These are direct drive from 120v AC, can be dimmed by standard phase angle dimmers, have a reasonable power factor and have high luminous efficacy. There are NO electrolytic capacitors used. The module in the photo is a 4.3 watt which can be bought in single quantities for $6.75. They do need a heatsink for cooling, the one I used was WAY overkill.

kb0nes++12-21-2013-12-11-26.jpg
 
Base up operation

Glenn,

I haven't seen any evidence of any of the screw base LED lamps failing due to installed orientation. The reflector style LED lamps I have seem like they really need vertical installation to make the external heatsinking convect properly. I have never seen any manufacturers recommendation to avoid base up usage.

Some of the early lamps clearly stated they were not for enclosed fixtures, That has eased a bit today with the lower wattage lamps but the high power lamps still state open fixtures only. Switch brand lamps can run in any fixture but they are liquid filled for cooling and pricy. Of course there is the likely hood of running a lamp in an enclosed fixture could shorten its lifespan due to temperature accelerated aging.

I do have a couple can fixtures in a bathroom and I have had some 9 watt BR30 LED lamps in those for about 5 years. I've never had a problem with those, they just work and they look great. Check back in 10 years or so ;)

The most hazardous thing during disposal of a CFL is the tiny amount of mercury in the lamp. I would bet that most of of the solder used in any recently made CFL is lead free. Ideally these lamps should go through proper processing for disposal , stores like Home Depot accept them free for recycling. Hopefully the processors deal with the e-waste also to recover the other metals in the lamps also.
 
i'm switching over the LED.

I started off with the lamp in the family room w/ the Phillips(3 years ago, and $$$$!) and color is great. My partner hates CFL's color, and I had one too many go up in smoke! Yes.. Smoke!

I am switching over to the CREE as needed and been happy with them and price is right..

Planning on taking down the fluorescents tubes in the garage.. IT's too cold out there in the winter for them to work right, and switch over to the CREE daylight.
 
There are some newer fluorescent tube light fixtures that work better in colder temps. I got several of these a couple years ago. They are 4' long and feature the newer, slimmer 32 watt T8 tubes, which are also more efficient than the older 40 watt T5 tubes. As I recall the brand is Lights of America. The ballasts and fixtures are light weight and easily fit in a number of locations. I've yet to find them balk at firing up even at cold winter temps. I bought a number of these and am using them in my carport as well as in locations for local shop lighting where I don't need to fire up a bank of six 8' tubes (which would use 480 watts, vs 64 watts for the dual T5's). They also work well on motion detectors.

Mfg: Lights of America
Product: 8055ss
Specs: 32 watt T8 4' tubes (dual), -20F cold start electronic ballast

Price paid at Costco: as I recall, about $15 per fixture.

http://www.lightsofamerica.com/en/Products/8055SS.aspx
 
Finally made it out to the local HD today.

The TW series 13.5/60 watt warm white (93 CRI) Cree price dropped to $10. The 9.5 watt warm white and daylight non-TW bulbs are priced higher, about $13. That's the opposite of what I remember from a few weeks back, but maybe I got the two mixed up then.

Anyway, I bought a 9.5/60 watt daylight Cree, and a TW 13.5/60 watt Cree. I pulled the Feit 18/75 daylight CFL from my desk lamp and put in the Cree daylight. It was whitish light but the CRI seemed to be lower than that of the Feit. Not sure what CRI the Feit daylight claims. So I switched over to the TW bulb, and while it's surely a yellowish light the color rendition seems to be quite good, especially the reds and blues. I got a second TW bulb which I may try in the bedside lamp, which currently has a 9/40 watt Feit LED.
 
I finally pulled the cheap LOA 4 watt clear LED bulb from the hall way chandelette and put the 93 CRI Cree in there. What a big difference! The wall color in the hallway (and living room) is sort of a light peach (called "Muted Mango", I call it "Mutated Mango") that I chose to paint it way back in '97. Anyway, the CREE shows it up very nicely, better than any other lamp I've had in there. '

I wound up putting the 75 watt FEIT daylight CFL back in the desk lamp. Those bulbs don't list the CRI but I suspect it's in the mid 80's. They seem to give very good light and decent enough colors. Another 93 CRI CREE bulb went into the bedside lamp, where it also works to good effect. The daylight CREE went into the motion activated lamp I keep in the master bath. A good spot for an LED vs. CFL, as well.

I also got a pair of Philips LED nightlights, 0.6 watt variety. These are warm white instead of the cool white of other night light LED's I've bought. Sort of nice. About the same lumens, though. They are handy for navigating a dark house without having to search for light switches.
 
I have ...

... virtually EVERY light bulb on a dimmer.

I use ONLY incandescent bulbs, and refuse to ever change that.

I've been in my apartment for 8 years now, and half all my light bulbs are still original to when I moved in.

Six years ago, I was talked into buying two CFLs. They both burned out within 6 months. $32 down the drain.
 
$16 for a CFL? You got ... taken ...

Even six years ago I was buying 100 watt equiv CFL's for less than $2 each.

Nowadays you can get high CRI dimmable LED's. $10 each. And yes, as with CFL's, that price will come down as well.
 
CFL in bathroom...

Glen, IMHO CFL's last longer when left "on". In an area that you turn the light on and off frequently my experience is they fail sooner. The one over our central a/c unit has worked 24/7 for several years. The A/C guy put it up to help deter copper theft. There are 2 bulbs in this fixture one is burned out. I will haul the ladder out and put 2 more up when the working one fails. I am just curious to see how long it will last.
alr
 
Dont know but might want to check local walmart there not on there site. But I been going led and found there 60 watt warm is just like a incandescent 60 watt. SO far I got one outside and the rest are inside and working great. Best part there only 8.99 for the dim type and 6.99 for the non dimmable type. They also look like a old style bulb and fit fine in odd ball spots.

Box info.

800 lumens 11 watts led A19

yearly cost 3 hr a day $1.32

life 22.8 years

light appearance warm 2700k

indoor outdoor encloses fixtures
 
To add there is no dead spots on the walmart ones I have got so far I own about 9 and got to get about 8 more. They also have them in 50 watt and 40 and 20.
 
Anybody notice the millisecond delay between flipping the light switch on and led's coming to life? I've changed over quite a few and definitely prefer the led over the cfl.
 
The turn on delay was common with the first generation Philips lamps but now seems to be gone in the current offerings. I have a hunch that any lamp today that claims to be dimmable is more likely to not exhibit the delay at turn on.

The Walmart lamps look like a good deal if you run the numbers, but the ones I have seen torn down don't look all that great construction wise. I think there is the possibility that the Walmart branded lamps may not last as long as other choices, so we could be talking false economy. With the Philips and Cree offerings being so close in performance and pricing to the Walmart lamps, I'd suggest buying those instead, their construction looks much better overall.

In any case I'd rather buy a lamp from the manufacturer that actually makes the LED's used in it, as opposed to a retailer that is just buying some lamps from China that are put together from other makers components. And if its important to you, the Cree lamps are assembled in the US.
 
No noticeable delay in the Cree bulb I've got -- that's one of the best things about it, being located in a stairwell.

The CFL bulbs previously in the fixture, even good ones from HD that were top-rated by Consumer Reports, could be agonizingly slow to warm up. And they seemed to get worse as they got older.
 
As previously discussed, when evaluating artificial light, the color temp is important but even more important, is the color rendition index (CRI). Unfortunately many bulbs' packaging fails to mention the CRI - presumably because it's nothing to brag about.

Fluorescent lights are notorious for having low CRI's, although special phosphors help to raise the color rendition index. But it's still an uneven spectrum of light, typically with peaks on the green side of the spectrum for "warm white" lights. In general I've found the daylight types of CFL's to have better color rendition than the warm whites, at least when CRI is not listed. It's subjective, of course, and the daylight bulbs tend to be a bit harsh for mood lighting. Great for kitchen and desk, not so great for living room and bedroom. I've noticed that some low CRI CFL's or circular lights tend to give out what looks to me like a brownish light. And all fluorescent lights gradually deposit metal on the inside of the tubes - I assume this is electrode material (tungsten) or perhaps some of the mercury used in all fluorescent lamps to provide the metal vapor for the lighting. Some bulbs seem to gray up faster than others, but eventually I think they all do, or their electronics burns out first.

As CREE points out, CRI isn't everything about color rendition. In their literature about their TW bulbs, they point out that even well balanced LED's still have peaks that can throw things off. Their solution is to use a rare metal, neodymium, to filter out the peaks and give a better CRI.

For outdoor lighting I like the LOA Fluorex bulbs. These consume about 65 watts and are supposed to put out the light of a 300 watt incandescent. They are box-style spot lights, giving a daylight spectrum, and I've been successful pairing them with higher quality outdoor motion detectors. They certainly do light up a large area and I find them helpful to illuminate a courtyard or patio. I think their brightness tends to be good for deterring trespassers. They are approved only for outdoor use.
 
For the CRI--the figure that gives you the CRI should also tell you what the REFERENCE source they are comparing to-Incandscent(2700K) lighting or Daylight(6K)If NO reference is given on the light packaging-then the CRI figure stated is well-USELESS.Best bet for a new light source such as LED and such-try to see a display where they have the bulbs lit so then you can determine if the light color is right for your needs.
 
Travis, the fixture with the ceiling medallion is so nice. Somehow it has a nice oriental appearance going on. I really like it as well as the wall sconce lighting.
alr
 
With all due respect, Rex, I have NEVER seen the CRI listed specifically mentioning a "reference source". It's rare enough to find CRI listed on the package or even on the mfg's product website. And it would seem to me to be obvious that if they are listing both the color temp and the CRI that the CRI is in reference to the stated color temp. And virtually all CFL and LED bulbs I've seen (except maybe night lights) list the color temp.

Also, I've always thought that an incandescent bulb is regarded as having a CRI of 100, and that is the "reference" being used, at least for a warm white bulb.

In any case, one needn't be a stickler for a store display. Most stores will allow returns, so one can purchase a bulb that looks appropriate, and try it out at home. If unsatisfied, all of the vendors I've used allow returns for full refund within 90 days.

[this post was last edited: 12/30/2013-12:08]
 
Jon,

I agree, this price point is amazing! Years ago I bought a couple of the 1st gen Phillips lamps (the ones with the yellow external phosphor petals). I used and tested the first ones and ended up liking them a lot. For me the tipping point was $15 per as I am sure they pay off at that point. Six months later HD had dropped the price to $12 and I bought about 20 total.

The 2700K color temperature is sure friendly for the folks tossing out their incandescent lamps. Initially I really liked it that warm, and I despised the 5000+K temps. I'm now starting to warm to cooler color temps ;) Given the choice I'd rather be somewhere between 3000-3500K.

I only have a couple of lamps that I dim, but I sure like that the color temp doesn't change when dimmed. They are making a number of LED modules that are warm-on-dim now to mimic an incandescent lamp when they are turned down. The good thing is that they don't go from very inefficient to horribly inefficient when dimmed like a incandescent does.
 
Anybody else remember those "energy saver" discs from the 1980's? They were, as far as I can remember, little diodes that you stuck in the base of a lamp socket, under the bulb. I presume they functioned to screen out 1/2 of the AC voltage wave pattern, reducing the amount of energy delivered to the bulb. This was supposed to save energy. I recall using a few but not being particularly happy with the dimmer light they created.
 

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