Backup generator questions

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supersuds

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I'm in need of a new home backup generator and am wondering how big & expensive to go.

The minimum requirements are to run a natural gas furnace, a refrigerator, and a freezer.

Amazon publishes a guide suggesting a 1/2 hp furnace fan would take about 800 watts to run, and another 2350 watts to start. It also suggests a refrigerator/freezer would take 600 watts to run and another 2200 watts to start.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...-garden/FINAL_wattage_guide._CB509419311_.pdf

That would mean I'd need 3200-3300 watts minimum, assuming everything wasn't started at the same time. Does that make sense?

Here's the nameplate for the 80,000 BTU furnace -- it only mentions 12 total amps. Seems like too much for steady state running, but maybe too little for starting?

supersuds-2018102722543601169_1.jpg
 
Here's the freezer nameplate. It says 5.0 amps, but the Kill-A-Watt meter shows it only uses 110-120 watts in steady-state running, maybe 140 or so when it first starts up. I have no idea how it could draw 5 amps.

supersuds-2018102723073106270_1.jpg
 
So is a 3200 watt generator safe to get? It seems like I'd have plenty left over to run lights once I got the appliances going, but would it be a good idea to get an even bigger generator to be on the safe side? Keeping in mind the extra expense and noise, that is.

Thoughts?
 
Start with this: https://www.consumerreports.org/generators/how-to-choose-the-right-size-generator/

Remember things like fridges, AC, and many other appliances with compressors/certain motors will draw a large amount upon start up. With this in mind you'll need to give some extra wiggle room in your calculations.

How often and for how long does power usually go out? Will you need to run generator power for days at time where you'll be running high draw appliances at same time? Things like fridge, AC, clothes dryer (electric), dishwasher, large television, etc...
 
If the fridge and freezer are frost free, the defrost heaters probably account for the high amp rating.

 

I'm interested in this too.  Our new house has a tankless gas water heater that requires a 120v connection to operate.  I'm used to at least having hot water and a working land line when the power goes out.  I can live without the landline but hot water not so much.
 
As for the land line ......

we have Ooma voip and basis Internet. The Ooma box and router are on a med size UPS and the last long power outage we had was nearly 2 days. The UPS lasted and we had phone and surfed from tablets. The Ooma box is nice where I have it plugged into the regular home phone wiring and it will drive the analog bells of 3 old 1930's-60's desk phones in the house and all 3 really loud. I bet it would drive a 4th. I also have a newer cordless phone base station on that line as well. Ooma costs about $6 a month for unlimited calling. Simply buy a used box on ebay for less than half new. And no I don't own stock in their company.

Bud - Atlanta
 
best bet is to switch off all refrigeration when the power goes out, allow the generator to run 15 minutes or so to stabilize, only then start turning the refrigeration back on, and wait a minute or two till you turn the next one on. This allows for the start surge when the compressor first starts.

If any compressor was actually running when the power went off, the refrigerant circuit will be full of gas under pressure. The compressors are designed to start with the gas depressurized, attempting to start with the lines still pressurized with be a great strain, most compressors will fail to start, and overload protection will kick in, aborting the attempt to start. It will take a while to reset and the next attempt should be OK, but the start / overload device on most compressors is a cheap and crude device, and may well fail permanently under this scenario, especially if it is a few years old. You should always shut off all refrigeration during a power cut, and wait at least 15 minutes before attempting to restart, regardless whether you have a backup power supply or if the mains power has returned.

I used to cook at a restaurant in our small isolated town with unreliable power supply. We had to shut down most appliances, start the genny, allow it to warm up and stabilize, then start adding loads one by one. We had a 3 phase generator, so had to also watch that no one phase was overloaded. Espresso machine was our number one most important device to keep customers happy... we could cook on gas...

you should also think about how long are you expecting power outages? Most fridges and freezers will keep food cold for several hours without power. Just keep them closed up as much as possible, every time you open the fridge door you let warm air in.
 
I am having a Generac model 6998, 7.5 KW installed this Wednesday They assured me it would easily run everything I need in an outage. The site planner asked why every spot in my breaker box was full. I said no more than 3 outlets are on any line and it must work as I never tripped a breaker since the house was totally rewired.
 
I am on my 2nd Generac. I had the first one installed in 2008. It was a 17 kw propane fueled unit. It powers everything in the house including the water pump, sewage pump, 2 split ductless A/C units, fridge, stove, freezer, microwave, hot water boiler, etc. The only thing it doesn't power is the dishwasher, washer and dryer, garage door opener and outside yard light. Last summer it stopped generating electricity although the engine ran fine. Repairs were estimated at $2500 or more. I ended up buying another Generac with a 10 year parts/labour warranty. Although very expensive, the generator has been worth it to me. This past summer the electricity was out for 34 hours after a big storm and a couple of weeks later it was out for another 12 hours. A couple of years ago the electricity was out for 24 hours from mid afternoon Dec. 24 to noon hour Dec. 25...but I was still able to cook the turkey. We get a lot of power outages here and I use a cpap for sleep apnea so the generator is a life saver.

Gary
 
Thanks, everyone for the comments.

Remember things like fridges, AC, and many other appliances with compressors/certain motors will draw a large amount upon start up. With this in mind you'll need to give some extra wiggle room in your calculations. Yes, I noted that in my original posts, lol.

How often and for how long does power usually go out? The longest interruption this year was about 5 hours; however, I'm caring for my 95-year-old mom, so I have to make sure I can keep the heat going in cold weather. We can get by with lanterns and without TV, but furnace, fridge, deepfreeze, are the minimum; a toaster oven, coffee pot, or microwave would be useful as well. A generator with enough headroom to start the furnace should have spare capacity to run these other appliances, however.

If the fridge and freezer are frost free, the defrost heaters probably account for the high amp rating. The fridge is frost-free, of course, but the freezer is not. I suppose it could draw as much as five amps in warm weather with a lot of room temperature food, but I haven't seen more than 2 amps on the Kill-A-Watt meter.

I'm interested in this too. Our new house has a tankless gas water heater that requires a 120v connection to operate. I'm used to at least having hot water and a working land line when the power goes out. I can live without the landline but hot water not so much. We'll have to depend on our tank-type water heater. I don't think it would be worth it to get a genset big enough to power an electric tank-type heater.

we have Ooma voip and basis Internet. The Ooma box and router are on a med size UPS and the last long power outage we had was nearly 2 days. The UPS lasted and we had phone and surfed from tablets. Do you not need a separate internet service? We have At&T U-Verse triple play. The phone never works when the power is out.

Remember when the power goes out and the generator kicks in it will have to restart everything all at once. Compressors don't like to restart that quickly. With my setup, the generator will not be automatic-start, so I will restart each circuit separately.

best bet is to switch off all refrigeration when the power goes out, allow the generator to run 15 minutes or so to stabilize, only then start turning the refrigeration back on, and wait a minute or two till you turn the next one on. This allows for the start surge when the compressor first starts. It will take me at least 15 minutes to get the generator started and hooked up, so this shouldn't be a problem!

You should always shut off all refrigeration during a power cut, and wait at least 15 minutes before attempting to restart, regardless whether you have a backup power supply or if the mains power has returned. Sounds like a good idea. Sometimes it does come back on after just a few minutes. I always turn the AC off, but not the fridge.

Regarding the Generacs -- my neighbor is having a 22,000 watt unit installed, which will run off natural gas (she has a heat pump instead of NG heat, however, go figure) but I'm not thinking we will have enough prolonged outages to justify the cost. She's an elderly widow who doesn't want to fool with extension cords and so forth, so I don't blame her, but I think we can get by with a cheaper option.
 
I have a Craftsman Professional 6250 watt portable. But I have had it with lugging 5 gallon gasoline tanks to have 5 hours of electricity. It ran everything I need in the house. But I decided to go with the permanent one with a big propane tank and automatic operation. I toyed with a 2 zone heat pump but for the same price I have peace of mind and can always have power.
 
It would be nice to have one here in Florida where the power can be out for two weeks or more after a hurricane. Last summer it was off for almost two weeks here. We had a portable generator but it was just enough to run the refrigerator and freezer. Plus the thing is so loud and having to run cords everywhere.

We did end up doing laundry by plugging the washer in. We were running out of clean underwear. lol

Some of the neighbors have the Generac units with underground propane tanks. I do feel like they don't last as long as they cost. One neighbor had one installed about 10 years ago and it didn't work during the outage. The a/c guy came and checked it out and got it going but then it broke down again. Not sure if it got fixed again or not. The other neighbors units worked to my knowledge.

But I do keep hearing that about 10 years is as long as they're good for which to me seems like a short time for the cost of one.

My plan eventually is to get a small, quiet unit, and a tiny window a/c to air condition just one bedroom so it's comfortable. That's the main issue I have is it's just so hot to try to sleep in the dead of summer for that long without power, when you're used to having a/c.
 
Recall after superstorm Sandy

When large parts of lower Manhattan were without power for a week or longer. The constant drone from portable generators would have gotten on my nerves.

Even going to see family or friends in parts of NJ after a bad storm the noise from generators fills the air.

What many family, friends and others have done besides generators also install solar panels. Cannot recall all the particulars but apparently that captured power can either be fed into household panel. This and or some sort of generator which also has batteries. Know they do sell "solar powered" generators for use when camping/off grid and or power outages.
 
Generator sound

Back in 2011, we had a freak October snow storm here that took down an incredible amount of tree branches; and with them, power lines.
Our power was out for a week.
After the second day, we had to bail and go stay in an apartment my family had available.
It just got WAY too cold in our house for us.
But we would come by every day to check on the place, and see if the power was back.
As soon as you would step out of the car, it was kind of eerie how the neighborhood was so quiet, except for the sound of generators.

Barry
 
I tried to find out if solar and any backup would work better, but having a forest around me and being so close to the lake, legally, I could not remove any trees within 100 ft. of the water that blocks sunlight directly. So a propane generator, even though noisy, is my only alternative. One year ago, nearly 1/2 million people went without power and for some, 2 weeks after that horrid wind storm in this state. There are still nearly 2000 out in northern and eastern parts of the state with that stupid wind this weekend. I am not taking any more chances.
 
I'd go for the biggest one you can comfortably afford. Like everyone says when everything starts back up thats a huge current draw till everything stables out and gets to steady state that should draw a lot less power. As far as solar the tiny house next door was equipped with a large solar panel on the car port, a huge array of batteries as a backup system, and a solar 80 gallon water heater setup with mini split heat and a wood stove. He showed me the setup and shut off outside feed and the house stayed running on the batteries and solar. He said the whole house could run for a couple of hours on battery alone so shut down what you don't need and run as long as possible. I still think you'd need a generator for long term but a great setup to save utility bills and be mostly off grid. I found a dirt cheap Coleman generator for 20 bucks that outputs about 4000 watts but needs a new carb and maybe other things but I plan to fix it for the next 10 hour outage when somebody knocks down the main power pole here again seeing how it's happened twice now and takes 10 to 12 hours to fix
 

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