Bath Towels Softer With Warm Rinse? Slower Spin Speed?

[frigilux]

Just an observation; Perhaps some of you might chime in with your personal experience.

EXAMPLE #1: I've stopped using fabric softener on my white bath linens since I started using clean-rinsing powdered Persil (UK Unilever; bio version) detergent a couple of months ago. The washer is a front-loading 3.0 cu. ft. 2002 Frigidaire. I rarely use the warm final rinse option, but did today, and noticed the towels felt slightly softer when they emerged from the dryer. (High heat, set at manufacturer's suggested spot on the automatic cycle.) Why would towels rinsed in warm water seem softer than those rinsed in cold? Granted, cold water in Minnesota this time of year is refrigerator-cold.

EXAMPLE #2: Last summer, when I was line-drying the same bath linens, I noticed that if I washed them in the '06 top-loading Frigidaire---which has a significantly slower spin speed (around 525 rpm) than my front-loader, the towels seemed a little less stiff/rough than when they were spun in the front-loader (1,000 rpm) and line-dried. I was using SA8 Fabric softener in both machines.

Anyone had similar experiences, or ideas of why either scenario might occur?

 

[spankomatic]

I have certainly noticed a difference between line drying and machine drying. I have also noticed a difference when I use Max Extract on the Maytag Neptune. The towels seem to be stiffer coming out of the washer when I use Max Extract. Maybe it has to do with the rate in which the mosture leaves the fabric? Not really sure why,but it is.

Jim

 

[sudsmaster]

I've spent a lot of time searching out how to get the softest bath towel results without resorting to fabric softener. This is using a Neptune 7500 front loader and a Miele 1918 front loader.

The results?

In Neptune, I get the softest results using Safeway Select Ultra HE free and clear liquid detergent. I use a hot water wash and a cycle modifier ("stain cycle") that forces the first rinse also to be hot. The final rinses (4 total) are cold.

In both the Neptune and the Miele, the results are quite soft using regular Persil powder. What I don't care for much is the residual fragrance.

Next up, is Sears Ultra Plus HE with Oxyclean powder - this leaves things pretty soft as well. I don't know why, though, it's softer than using regular Sears Ultra Plus HE powders.

Sears Ultra Plus HE liquids also leave a relatively soft result. Tide HE liquid, not so soft.

Also, a mix of STPP and grated Ivory soap also leaves relatively soft results. The residual soap acts as a form of fabric softener.

As far as spin speed goes, I cannot say that I've ever tried a spin speed lower than max on towels. When I line dry, often I will put the wet towels into the dryer for a 15 minute air fluff, then line dry. This seems to make them dry faster and softer on the line. If they still seem rough when dry I'll put them back in the dryer for another air fluff. But they are almost always softer if machine dried.

A warm rinse is likely to result in softer towels because the warm water open up the thread fibers and allow trapped detergent/precipitate residue to escape in the rinse water. However I haven't noticed a difference between hot wash/cold rinse and warm wash/warm rinse in the Neptune. Perhaps this is because the first rinse in the Neptune when using a hot wash/stain cycle is hot.

 

[frigilux]

Rich-- I used soap (purchased online) for awhile, and you're right, towels were quite soft. I was concerned about soap-scum build-up in the washers, since both my TL and FL insist on cold rinses immediately after a hot wash. Launderess, and others, have recommended warm rinses so the soap doesn't adhere to fabric fibers as well as the washer itself.

Jim-- Oddly enough, after the initial shock of how stiff and scratchy towels are off the clothesline, I started to enjoy the post-shower exfoliation. And as soon as the towel absorbs a bit of moisture, they get very soft, anyway. The difference in softness between line-drying and dryer drying is amazing. Interestingly, things like T-shirts, briefs and dish towels seem no scratchier when dried on the line.

 

[mickeyd]

Wow

:-(

 

[toploader55]

You know...

After joining this page and getting reaquainted with the older machines, I remeber the first 2 GEs we had only had warm rinses. I started using warm rinses on my white wash and I noticed a huge difference. The towels are softer,brighter, and feel different.

 

[gyrafoam]

I have found that the softest towels I can produce is to wash and rinse in hot water. I regularly do this in my 1997 FriGEMore and my 1953 Unimatic. It is easy to set both for Warm washes and rinses and then shut off the cold water supply completely.

Then drying in the 1953 Filtramatic.

Wonderfully soft towels every time, and NO fabric softener.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Burrrrr a cold rinse

Eugene I suspect the problem might be with a cold rinse. This time of year I do not use any washer that doesn't provide a warm or thermostatic cool rinse. Meaning the GE Harmony is out of service until spring. While 37 Degree water is fabulous out of the tap for a cold drink, it is way too cold for proper rinsing and will leave soap residue in fabrics which will make them less soft. You might consider using a Y connection and piping in a warm/cold mixture into the cold side of the your water valves to force your washers to rinse in all warm or warmish water.

 

[nmaineman36]

Good topic...I always thought that it didnt matter for rinse temp. At least thats what I have read over the years and on the detergent boxes such as Tide they recommend a cold rinse. I will have to try it see if it does make a difference.

 

[sudsmaster]

Post shower exfoliation

Eugene, I thought that was what loofas were for... ;-)

Just ask Bill O'Reilly...

 

[MrX]

The dryer is what makes all the difference. Spin speeds etc don't make any difference at all.

If you want soft towels, yet don't want to fully tumble dry them. Hang them up to dry, when they're done, put them into the dryer for 20 mins or so.

They come out really fluffy.

It tumbles, bends and fluffs up the fibres.

Also, it's very important that they're well rinsed, more so than that they're treated with fabric softener.

And use a high quality detergent.

 

[frigilux]

LOL, Rich!

 

[sudsman]

Spin speed and Water Temperatures DO make a difference

I found many years ago that a higher speed spin on any load results in a harder finish , This is due to the fact that the more water removed also removes more of the Fabric Softner so the load is not as soft. Warm water does play a very important part also as a warm load will extract better at a lower speed than a cold load and warm water does not have as many impurities (minerals) as does pure cold water. So the load will be softer

 

[pturo]

Some people like "Scratch Towels" from the line. I do for bath and they do have a loofa quality to them. Line dried, they really don't look nice, but they feel great. Hand and wash cloths(face towels) can be put in the dryer. All in all, there are a few things you dont need to scrimp on-naked babies and naked people-put the towels, diapers and baby clothes in the dryer, without stupid fabric sheets. Fabric softner makes clothing more flammable, it contains wax.
There is nothing like line dried bedding, t-shirts or cotton apparel, smells so much better than baked in a Maytag.
I think with line drying, you have to choose your fabrics, and fabric uses.

 

[maytagbear]

Not everyone has

the option of line drying.

I almost always use a warm water rinse, fabric softener, and extended spin, not that the spin on my 1997 Dependable Care is all that fast.

Lawremce/Maytagbear

 

[gyrafoam]

One way I have found to produce fluffy line-dried towels without the "scratch" is to put the line-dried towels in the dryer, set on "air-fluff" for about ten minutes.

It does fluff them up and gets rid of lint.

 

[retro-man]

I normally will do hot wash and cold rinses (4) and max extract on my neptune. I throw them in the dryer for 10 minutes on high heat, then out on the line. 10 minutes fluffs them up and removes any lint, plus they are a little warm on the hands in the winter weather here. I have been using tide w/bleach alternative and just a splash of downy mixed with water in the dispenser. Towels come in nice and fluffy and smell great.
Jon

 

[toggleswitch]

Spread-em!

So does machine drying REMOVE lint or CREATE it from the friction and tumbling?

I ususally put things in the dryer for 20 minutes and THEN line-dry! Fluffs and spreads the fibers, softens and allows for the fresh scent of the passing diesel trucks/lorries ....er fresh air....

 

[mrboilwash]

Using the dryer for 20 minutes and then line dry works great for me, too. I normally use a short heated programe like "rotary iron dry" to ease the wrinkles and fluff things up.

But I have noticed that slower spinspeeds lead to harder clothes. At least when not using a dryer and with my hard water, I suppose it is just because less minerals are spun out.

 

[djmjlcst]

Cold Cold Water

I've noticed in these cold days/nights when the temperature is in the single digits the water from the tap is very cold. Whenever I do a warm wash I start with hot water for 1/2 tub then switch to warm. Seems that the warm water is just tepid at best when filling the wash tub with the warm water setting.

Just an observation!

Mike

 

[jeb]

spin speed

We had a kenmore washer that had a "Hang dry" speed setting. The final spin was slow no matter what cycle was selected

 

[frigilux]

Mike---My Frigidaire TL'er has PrecisionTemp and it also is filling 1/2 hot on the warm setting. The cold water is that cold, here in Minnesota. On a cold wash, it basically fills 'warm', with almost no cold-only water entering the tub.

 

[djmjlcst]

Precision Temp

Thanks Eugene, I wonder how many other washer manufacturers have precision temperature settings. A nice feature especially for all of us that live in sub zero temperature areas. Think I'll start doing my cold washes with the warm water setting while it's so cold outside now. Even with those washes, I've started with the hot water just to get the detergent to dissolve better, and after swishing the water around by hand I then switch to cold. I don't think my clothing that requires cold water washes would get ruined by that!

Mike

 

[lederstiefel1]

facts from Germany

I'm just giving my experiences and knowledge to that topic.

In the Olde Days, I found in books and have heard during my childhood time (1960s), women instisted on a hot rinse first (mostly with SIL, which was a rinsing agent with STTP, brightening agent and oxygen-bleach [sodiumperborate] and is still available but as a stain-remover like oxy-clean today) to get out the soap better, as soap can set in cold water, it was said.

This rinse was followed by a second warm rinse in clear water and finally one or two cold rinses were given to the washing until water stayed clear.

Usually the process-water from the hydraulic washing-machine motor was used for the 1-2 final rinses so no extra water was needed and the "coppers" in Germany often had a backboiler at the escape tube or had a double mantel with water in which was warmed during the boiling cycle without any extra fuel.

So far the information from the Olde Days.

On the other hand I found out that when using soap and when I do a rinse with hot water first, the tub or sink in which I do it is covered with a thin layer of scum (except if I put in soda) wheras this does not or not so much come up, if I do a cold rinse first and a warm or hot finally.

I tried the same with dishes, especially glasses, and had the same experiences with the kitchen-sink's and the glasses' surfaces.
So far to soap and soap-based powders.

Industry experimented with petro-tensides to avoid all these disadvantages especially as German automatic washers usually do not have connections to hot-water supplies but only have cold-water connections and so only cold rinsing is taking place in automatic machines here.
It is said that modern tensides and detergent-components rinse out even better in cold water than in warm water because warmth activates them better, a fact which is not helpful during the rinsing-out process.

Next thing to be kept in mind is that any hot or warm rinsing needs twice as much energy as cold rinsing and is bad for the environment! Here in Germany there is no machine on the market available that can do warm or even hot rinses since the end of the 1950-60 when soap-based powders disappeared from the market; there are some "eco-powders" on soap basis still available though but they are compound to rinse out in cold water as well as petro-detergents do.

Until some years ago I made my own soap (bar-soap and bath-soap) and also washed my clothes with it and found out that soap or soap based powders really make much softer washing than "chemical" powders do. Maybe it has something to do with very small quantities of fat-acids which are left over on the surfaces of the fibres and which work as a smoothener but do not hamper the water-absorption as conditioner's surfactants (kationic sufactants) do; to me that's also the reason why people started complaining about harsh washing in the 1960s when detergents were switched to petro-tensides instead of soap and conditioners appeared on the market.

Concerning terry-towels I found another hint to get them really smooth, fluffy and soft a few years ago in a laundry-book: as to the book towels should be rinsed in cold water first and finally in a warm, soft water (rain-water would be best they postulated) and not spun but hung up dripping wet on a line, then turned over after a while to make them dry more evenly and when only damp, the towels should be shaken out vigorously and then dried completely. When dry a second vigorous shaking before the laying will give them the final finish: smoothness, fluffiness and volume like on their first day.

Last but not least there's another fact which is not to be neglected:
washing in a tub-washer ALWAYS produces less harsh washing because the tumbling action in a FL scrumbles and tangles the fine fibres much more into eachother, folding and knotting their loose extensions together and therefor producing the so called "dry-stiffness" which has nothing to do with water-hardness because this can be seen when rinsing with a final "vinegar-rinse" (1/2 - 1 cup for a full load) and still towels come out quite harsh when dry afterwards.

So, that's all I know! Hope it helped a bit, too and wasn't too much to read!?

Ralf