supersurgilator
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BD Kenmore
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Indeed I'm pretty sure that those speeds are accurate... for the motor! The wash tub doesn't spin that fast but the motor does! Those are very common motor speeds!
FUNNY - that's actually a 1977 Kenmore 70 series. Looks very low mileage (the top isn't porcelain and hasn't yet rusted).
The rpm quote must have come from the tech facts sticker on the left and the seller confused motor speeds.
The rpm quote must have come from the tech facts sticker on the left and the seller confused motor speeds.
rll70sman
Well-known member
Wow! That machine looks like it just came off the showroom floor. I'd like to see a tub shot and find out what specific features are on it.
Well, since it indicates the "power source" is gas, that might explain the speed-o-light spin.
ingliscanada
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2009
- Messages
- 338
Only a Frigidaire Unimatic spins that fast.
mickeyd
Well-known member
You have my full attention
The BD portables get up to near 1000 rpms, 900 something, or maybe just 900 ;-> but pretty fast nonetheless. Always wondered why full-size models were never engineered to spin as fast as the portables. I know about the 110 volt matching portable dry issues, but still.....
The never-ending wonders and surprises of WP/KM.
We'll get an answer, unless we already have it with Stevie's gas.
The BD portables get up to near 1000 rpms, 900 something, or maybe just 900 ;-> but pretty fast nonetheless. Always wondered why full-size models were never engineered to spin as fast as the portables. I know about the 110 volt matching portable dry issues, but still.....
The never-ending wonders and surprises of WP/KM.
We'll get an answer, unless we already have it with Stevie's gas.
Mickeyd -
The belt drive full-size machines are anchored and otherwise fully supported by the cabinets. Unlike the later BD portables and all DD machines where the cabinet is purely cosmetic, the cabinet in a full-size machine provides all the support for the baseplate. This IS the platform for the entire operational machine with the exception of the timer.
Spin speeds on the BDs are often a subject of jokes here on AW.org, but they could not be raised dramatically and still keep the cabinets "stuck" on the floor. Too much spin speed in them, and centrifical force would send them across the floor diagonally like a loose rocket.
Case in point - one time back when I was in High School, our cat (probably deliberately, he loved to do that) lodged one of his toys of choice under our 1974 large cap. machine. The forlorn look on his face got my immediate attention and I set out to get the item for him. Instead of getting the yard-stick out which we usually did, I layed down on the floor, tilted the washer back on its back feet, figuring I'd just reach in a get the toy, no problem, right?
W R O N G !!!!! The machine was in final spin at the time, with a full load. Taking the cabinet off the front feet caused the weight of the machine obviously to settle on the back two. As soon as I lifted it, the washer IMMEDIATELY shifted to the left, about 45 or more degrees, in a violent and instantaneous rush that I was completely un-prepared for. The right front foot and cabinet corner smacked me in the head (explains a lot since then), and the machine swung around and pressed itself again the wall-mounted laundry sink and nearly ripped it from the wall before I got myself outta there. The sound of the machine's two back feet scuffing across the vinyl floor (like this deep thunka-thunka-thunka) I remember clearly, it echoed throughout the cabinet. The machine even moved the dryer on it's short trip. This was all during a perfectly balanced, quiet load. I didn't even notice the machine was spinning. So, needless to say, I understand why extraction speeds were never changed much.
I believe the standard tubs spin at about 525 rpm, and some or most large tubs at 505 or so. What they had going for them is basket diameter, which provides for good centrifical force vs. narrower tubs that spin a bit faster.
Gordon
The belt drive full-size machines are anchored and otherwise fully supported by the cabinets. Unlike the later BD portables and all DD machines where the cabinet is purely cosmetic, the cabinet in a full-size machine provides all the support for the baseplate. This IS the platform for the entire operational machine with the exception of the timer.
Spin speeds on the BDs are often a subject of jokes here on AW.org, but they could not be raised dramatically and still keep the cabinets "stuck" on the floor. Too much spin speed in them, and centrifical force would send them across the floor diagonally like a loose rocket.
Case in point - one time back when I was in High School, our cat (probably deliberately, he loved to do that) lodged one of his toys of choice under our 1974 large cap. machine. The forlorn look on his face got my immediate attention and I set out to get the item for him. Instead of getting the yard-stick out which we usually did, I layed down on the floor, tilted the washer back on its back feet, figuring I'd just reach in a get the toy, no problem, right?
W R O N G !!!!! The machine was in final spin at the time, with a full load. Taking the cabinet off the front feet caused the weight of the machine obviously to settle on the back two. As soon as I lifted it, the washer IMMEDIATELY shifted to the left, about 45 or more degrees, in a violent and instantaneous rush that I was completely un-prepared for. The right front foot and cabinet corner smacked me in the head (explains a lot since then), and the machine swung around and pressed itself again the wall-mounted laundry sink and nearly ripped it from the wall before I got myself outta there. The sound of the machine's two back feet scuffing across the vinyl floor (like this deep thunka-thunka-thunka) I remember clearly, it echoed throughout the cabinet. The machine even moved the dryer on it's short trip. This was all during a perfectly balanced, quiet load. I didn't even notice the machine was spinning. So, needless to say, I understand why extraction speeds were never changed much.
I believe the standard tubs spin at about 525 rpm, and some or most large tubs at 505 or so. What they had going for them is basket diameter, which provides for good centrifical force vs. narrower tubs that spin a bit faster.
Gordon
mickeyd
Well-known member
" smacked me in the head (explains a lot since then),&
Oh Gordon, your brain is a well-known marvel, you brainiac.
What a great story. See if you can figure out the dating issue in Darren's post.
More later. Sorry, my sister Lynn just arrived.
Oh Gordon, your brain is a well-known marvel, you brainiac.
What a great story. See if you can figure out the dating issue in Darren's post.
More later. Sorry, my sister Lynn just arrived.
Rob -
I have an identical model to this machine. The ebay machine does look like new and has me perplexed - it either spent a lot of time in a western dry climate area or hasn't been used much. The reason I say this is because the 27741 model (which is a 1977 seventy-series) came with a painted top, BUT had a porcelain lid. There were MANY of these around here in the mid-90s and nearly all of them had nasty rust around the lid well area which eventually became visible above the lid. These models were very sought after in good used condition back at that time so whenever I'd find one (rust buckets we'd sometimes call them), I'd grab it and either re-paint the top (a pain) or swap a porcelain top from a donor when one was available.
The features of this machine were weird. Again, the model is 27741, whereas a better model was the 27701. Usually, machines get better with Kenmore as the stock/model number gets higher, so a '741 should be a more feature-filled model than the '701, but in this case it wasn't. I think the '741 was devised to be a price-point competitive model or was featured in some sort of promotion, etc. In addition to not having a porcelain top, I do not believe it has an off-balance buzzer (I'll have to check). It has only 3 water levels whereas most 70-series back then had four or more, and only three temps, where most had five. It has a Penta-Vane agitator with no dispensers.
The reason I know this for near certainty is I have an identical machine that was recently reactivated after 18 years of storage. I will gladly get you some interior shots, etc. if you care to see them. This machine pre-dates the "energy saver" notations that were included with the 1979 and 1980 models, this machine having a warm rinse with the hot wash option, whereas the later 79/80 models with three temps all had cold rinses.
Check out pic # 25 of the Aberdeen Farm. Behind the Turq. Lady K dryer is a Harvest Gold/Golden Wheat sibling of this washer, with a painted non-porcelain lid. You can see what looks like the beginnings of rust in the back corners on both sides of the lid well. Those dang painted panels used to really frustrate me because they were often the only reason the owner got rid of the machine.
Gordon
I have an identical model to this machine. The ebay machine does look like new and has me perplexed - it either spent a lot of time in a western dry climate area or hasn't been used much. The reason I say this is because the 27741 model (which is a 1977 seventy-series) came with a painted top, BUT had a porcelain lid. There were MANY of these around here in the mid-90s and nearly all of them had nasty rust around the lid well area which eventually became visible above the lid. These models were very sought after in good used condition back at that time so whenever I'd find one (rust buckets we'd sometimes call them), I'd grab it and either re-paint the top (a pain) or swap a porcelain top from a donor when one was available.
The features of this machine were weird. Again, the model is 27741, whereas a better model was the 27701. Usually, machines get better with Kenmore as the stock/model number gets higher, so a '741 should be a more feature-filled model than the '701, but in this case it wasn't. I think the '741 was devised to be a price-point competitive model or was featured in some sort of promotion, etc. In addition to not having a porcelain top, I do not believe it has an off-balance buzzer (I'll have to check). It has only 3 water levels whereas most 70-series back then had four or more, and only three temps, where most had five. It has a Penta-Vane agitator with no dispensers.
The reason I know this for near certainty is I have an identical machine that was recently reactivated after 18 years of storage. I will gladly get you some interior shots, etc. if you care to see them. This machine pre-dates the "energy saver" notations that were included with the 1979 and 1980 models, this machine having a warm rinse with the hot wash option, whereas the later 79/80 models with three temps all had cold rinses.
Check out pic # 25 of the Aberdeen Farm. Behind the Turq. Lady K dryer is a Harvest Gold/Golden Wheat sibling of this washer, with a painted non-porcelain lid. You can see what looks like the beginnings of rust in the back corners on both sides of the lid well. Those dang painted panels used to really frustrate me because they were often the only reason the owner got rid of the machine.
Gordon
rll70sman
Well-known member
Gordon, go ahead and post some pics if you wish. I've always wondered what the Penta-Vane agitator looked like. Most people I knew who had belt-driven Kenmores either had the Roto-Swirl or the Dual-Action agitators. I always thought it unusual that some models had spray rinses and the unbalanced load switch and some didn't. And it seemed like many Kenmore and Whirlpool machines of that era rusted terribly around the base instead of the lid.
My grandma's 1981 24-inch Kenmore didn't have spray rinses or an unbalanced load switch, but its "woo-woo" sound was higher pitched. It did have a Dual-Action agitator and no bleach or fabric softener dispensers. The cycles were Cotton/Sturdy, Permanent Press, Knit/Delicate, and Prewash. The water levels were high, medium, and low and the water temperatures were hot/cold, warm/cold, and cold/cold. As a kid I remember that machine getting off balance a time or two and it ripping the linoleum in several places in grandma's laundry room. It was a basic machine but sure did a good job of washing clothes. Sadly, something went haywire with it several years ago where it filled, agitated, drained, and spun for the wash portion of the cycle but wouldn't agitate for the rinse portion. However, it drained and spun after the rinse as normal.
My grandma's 1981 24-inch Kenmore didn't have spray rinses or an unbalanced load switch, but its "woo-woo" sound was higher pitched. It did have a Dual-Action agitator and no bleach or fabric softener dispensers. The cycles were Cotton/Sturdy, Permanent Press, Knit/Delicate, and Prewash. The water levels were high, medium, and low and the water temperatures were hot/cold, warm/cold, and cold/cold. As a kid I remember that machine getting off balance a time or two and it ripping the linoleum in several places in grandma's laundry room. It was a basic machine but sure did a good job of washing clothes. Sadly, something went haywire with it several years ago where it filled, agitated, drained, and spun for the wash portion of the cycle but wouldn't agitate for the rinse portion. However, it drained and spun after the rinse as normal.
Rob -
I'll get you some pics in a minute here.
24-inch machines for some reason did not have spray rinses, at least in the early 80s. I have not been exposed to many of these, but I remember having a 1982 24-inch plastic-top machine and I noticed it didn't spray and thought something was wrong with it. The timers are the same with the full-size machines, so they are obviously wired this way on purpose.
I think the higher pitch of the woo-woo was due to the size of the cabinet and sound wave geometry. Nothing mechanical is different with that era of machine vs. the 29-inch. I will say that most often, 24-inch and 29-inch standard cap models often seemed to have GE split phase motors, whereas the 29-inch large cap machines had Emerson capacitor start motors. The motors may have had a little bit of difference in sound. I have a 1973 standard machine with a GE motor and it sounds noticeably higher pitched than the Emerson powered machine right next to it in my garage.
As to the off-balance buzzer - I will look at the catalogs, but I didn't notice if any of the 24-inch units had the kick-out relay or not. Most 70-series and better 29-inch models did with only few exceptions.
Your Grandmother's machine was a pretty nice one actually. Most 24-inch models were lower end units, not all, but most. Having a DA in a 24-inch model was very rare, and if it had the black metal panel, a pre-wash and a 2-speed motor, it was a dandy machine. I remember only one 80-series 24-inch model from the '79 model year, otherwise a 70-series (which is what hers sounds like) was king of the roost most of the time in 24-inch models between 1976 and 1983 (other than 1979). Incidentally, the 1979 Kenmore model year had more models than any I can think of in the belt-drive era.
Pics to follow.
Gordon
I'll get you some pics in a minute here.
24-inch machines for some reason did not have spray rinses, at least in the early 80s. I have not been exposed to many of these, but I remember having a 1982 24-inch plastic-top machine and I noticed it didn't spray and thought something was wrong with it. The timers are the same with the full-size machines, so they are obviously wired this way on purpose.
I think the higher pitch of the woo-woo was due to the size of the cabinet and sound wave geometry. Nothing mechanical is different with that era of machine vs. the 29-inch. I will say that most often, 24-inch and 29-inch standard cap models often seemed to have GE split phase motors, whereas the 29-inch large cap machines had Emerson capacitor start motors. The motors may have had a little bit of difference in sound. I have a 1973 standard machine with a GE motor and it sounds noticeably higher pitched than the Emerson powered machine right next to it in my garage.
As to the off-balance buzzer - I will look at the catalogs, but I didn't notice if any of the 24-inch units had the kick-out relay or not. Most 70-series and better 29-inch models did with only few exceptions.
Your Grandmother's machine was a pretty nice one actually. Most 24-inch models were lower end units, not all, but most. Having a DA in a 24-inch model was very rare, and if it had the black metal panel, a pre-wash and a 2-speed motor, it was a dandy machine. I remember only one 80-series 24-inch model from the '79 model year, otherwise a 70-series (which is what hers sounds like) was king of the roost most of the time in 24-inch models between 1976 and 1983 (other than 1979). Incidentally, the 1979 Kenmore model year had more models than any I can think of in the belt-drive era.
Pics to follow.
Gordon
Doesn't $100.00 seem a little high for this machines age and low features, otherwise in nice shape........
Rob -
Here are some pics that you asked for, brand new....if they were on film, it wouldn't even be dry yet.
This machine is affectionately known around here as "Moppy". I have owned this washer since fall 1990, but it wasn't in running shape until the winter of 2009.
When I got it, the machine was 13 years old, being made in the 41st week of 1977. For such a short life, it had been rode hard and put up wet as they say. The top was rusted so badly it was peeling inches onto the top surfaces and completely under the lid. The lid was fine since it was porcelain coated. Inside, the basket was scraped nearly clean of porcelain, at least the lower half, and it WREAKED of stinky feet - I mean W R E A K E D. It was AWFUL.
My washer buddy/mentor, had just started our deal that I negotiated with Sears to haul-off their haul-aways, and I had told him that I wanted ANY black panel machine that he didn't want first. What that usually meant for me was the Avocado machines, the Coppertone ones, his costly to repair cast-offs, and the "earthy" ones like Moppy. Back then people were almost lined up for these. He laughed when he offered me this machine, asking me if I wanted to modify my request (I thought seriously about that).
This machine sat in my garage for several months until the next spring/summer and humid warm days caused me to rid myself of the stench and I put the washer in the warehouse at work. It had a broken belt, and with the top so bad and the basket so worn, I couldn't justify robbing parts from what was usually nicer parts donors, so I began to use this one as a donor. I used a few parts as needed but always made notes to keep an eye out while scavenging at used appliance stores.
When I started to dig into my storage trailer of machines, I decided to face this machine and see what it was all about. What I found was astonishing - it had been used for all or most of it's life to wash mop heads. Literally a football sized handful of mop strings were stuck under the agitator. There was so much build-up of lint around the side of the tub where the self-cleaning lint filter mounts that a hole had rusted on the SIDE of the tub (never saw that before!!!). AND, not only was the basket void of smooth porcelain, but the outer tub was too, and it looked literally like a pepperoni pizza.
I dug into this machine in the dead of winter last year, and the stench had largely gone away after all these years. I had managed to save a couple replacement baskets and an outer tub. The machine already had a newish replacement pump, and I installed a new belt. I also got a replacement top from a 1985 Kenmore 80 series machine (that's why there is a blank bleach dispenser hole on the left - beggars can't be choosers as the original top was well beyond restoration).
The users of this machine must have used some intense "detergents" in this machine to dissolve porcelain in the outer tub. Most of the smell from the machine came from the gross build-up of redeposited detergent on the tub ring, which was at least 2/3 of an inch thick. The rest of the smell was harbored in the rusty top.
When it all came back together, the machine was surprisingly 'greatful' for my work. Some machines I would swear fight me, others just seem to work with me. It is remarkably quiet, it does a great job, and I've had fun with the agitator as I've never seen a Penta-Swirl in action under a lot of conditions other than those that I had repaired/serviced with light test loads, etc. I have come to believe however that the Penta-Vane, which was the lower end agitator, is the better of the two overall in daily life's laundry. I really didn't want to keep this machine, but due to it's history, here it is and here it will probably remain. This is the exact same model as the one on ebay.
Gordon
Here are some pics that you asked for, brand new....if they were on film, it wouldn't even be dry yet.
This machine is affectionately known around here as "Moppy". I have owned this washer since fall 1990, but it wasn't in running shape until the winter of 2009.
When I got it, the machine was 13 years old, being made in the 41st week of 1977. For such a short life, it had been rode hard and put up wet as they say. The top was rusted so badly it was peeling inches onto the top surfaces and completely under the lid. The lid was fine since it was porcelain coated. Inside, the basket was scraped nearly clean of porcelain, at least the lower half, and it WREAKED of stinky feet - I mean W R E A K E D. It was AWFUL.
My washer buddy/mentor, had just started our deal that I negotiated with Sears to haul-off their haul-aways, and I had told him that I wanted ANY black panel machine that he didn't want first. What that usually meant for me was the Avocado machines, the Coppertone ones, his costly to repair cast-offs, and the "earthy" ones like Moppy. Back then people were almost lined up for these. He laughed when he offered me this machine, asking me if I wanted to modify my request (I thought seriously about that).
This machine sat in my garage for several months until the next spring/summer and humid warm days caused me to rid myself of the stench and I put the washer in the warehouse at work. It had a broken belt, and with the top so bad and the basket so worn, I couldn't justify robbing parts from what was usually nicer parts donors, so I began to use this one as a donor. I used a few parts as needed but always made notes to keep an eye out while scavenging at used appliance stores.
When I started to dig into my storage trailer of machines, I decided to face this machine and see what it was all about. What I found was astonishing - it had been used for all or most of it's life to wash mop heads. Literally a football sized handful of mop strings were stuck under the agitator. There was so much build-up of lint around the side of the tub where the self-cleaning lint filter mounts that a hole had rusted on the SIDE of the tub (never saw that before!!!). AND, not only was the basket void of smooth porcelain, but the outer tub was too, and it looked literally like a pepperoni pizza.
I dug into this machine in the dead of winter last year, and the stench had largely gone away after all these years. I had managed to save a couple replacement baskets and an outer tub. The machine already had a newish replacement pump, and I installed a new belt. I also got a replacement top from a 1985 Kenmore 80 series machine (that's why there is a blank bleach dispenser hole on the left - beggars can't be choosers as the original top was well beyond restoration).
The users of this machine must have used some intense "detergents" in this machine to dissolve porcelain in the outer tub. Most of the smell from the machine came from the gross build-up of redeposited detergent on the tub ring, which was at least 2/3 of an inch thick. The rest of the smell was harbored in the rusty top.
When it all came back together, the machine was surprisingly 'greatful' for my work. Some machines I would swear fight me, others just seem to work with me. It is remarkably quiet, it does a great job, and I've had fun with the agitator as I've never seen a Penta-Swirl in action under a lot of conditions other than those that I had repaired/serviced with light test loads, etc. I have come to believe however that the Penta-Vane, which was the lower end agitator, is the better of the two overall in daily life's laundry. I really didn't want to keep this machine, but due to it's history, here it is and here it will probably remain. This is the exact same model as the one on ebay.
Gordon
Another shot
Looking in a bit....
Looking in a bit....
Say ahhh....
Here's a Penta-Swirl for you Rob....
FYI - the replacement basket in this machine is from an upper line or nearly TOL machine. The 70 series and lower machines usually had blue speckled tubs. I like the beige speckles....
Here's a Penta-Swirl for you Rob....
FYI - the replacement basket in this machine is from an upper line or nearly TOL machine. The 70 series and lower machines usually had blue speckled tubs. I like the beige speckles....
Moppy enjoying water for the first time in over 18 years
Fun fun - I enjoyed 'water test day' this year when I tested four machines at once.
Fun fun - I enjoyed 'water test day' this year when I tested four machines at once.
Hi level
I like the fact that this machine has seen little enough use that the water level pressure switch hasn't become inaccurate, so it still fills to the proper factory "Hi" level.
I like the fact that this machine has seen little enough use that the water level pressure switch hasn't become inaccurate, so it still fills to the proper factory "Hi" level.
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
Boy, Ya gotta sickness...
I think you have those bd washers down better than anyone at Sears or Whirlpool for that matter. I gotta ask. How much of that is in your noggin and how much is on paper? More than ever, I'm glad that junk pile rescue is going to YOU!
RCD
I think you have those bd washers down better than anyone at Sears or Whirlpool for that matter. I gotta ask. How much of that is in your noggin and how much is on paper? More than ever, I'm glad that junk pile rescue is going to YOU!
RCD
