Because Life is TOO short for bad coffee...
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funktionalart
Well-known member
Norelco/Chemex
The old 70s Norelco "dial-a-brew" bases can be found all the time when thrifting. I've got a few here myself because they have outstanding wattage (I think one of mine is over 1500w) ...am just missing the proper sized Chemex carafe to use that setup. It's supposed to perform quite well--and way, way less costly than a $350 Chemex-branded vintage equivalent! The old Norelco bases are visually identical (same brushed metal, but black lid and sides). Also, they only have a single hole drip/water exit vs. some sort of shower head type grounds saturation.
The old 70s Norelco "dial-a-brew" bases can be found all the time when thrifting. I've got a few here myself because they have outstanding wattage (I think one of mine is over 1500w) ...am just missing the proper sized Chemex carafe to use that setup. It's supposed to perform quite well--and way, way less costly than a $350 Chemex-branded vintage equivalent! The old Norelco bases are visually identical (same brushed metal, but black lid and sides). Also, they only have a single hole drip/water exit vs. some sort of shower head type grounds saturation.
Okay
gonna try a Dial A Brew with my Chemex - report to follow.
gonna try a Dial A Brew with my Chemex - report to follow.
I've seen old Norelcos being presented as viable alternatives to the Chemex Automated. I'm not so sure the single hole drip outlet can achieve complete wetting of the grounds. Maybe something could be inserted into the outlet that would effect better distribution, or maybe the lid to the Norelco's brewing basket could be carefully set into the carafe above the grounds.
Also, the Norelco machines don't offer the pauses in the brewing that the Chemex Automateds do. I don't know how important that is. It kind of strikes me as a gimmick. Regardless, the Norelco is clearly an alternative that does still turn up in thrift stores on occasion.
I'll be interested in JC's report.
Also, the Norelco machines don't offer the pauses in the brewing that the Chemex Automateds do. I don't know how important that is. It kind of strikes me as a gimmick. Regardless, the Norelco is clearly an alternative that does still turn up in thrift stores on occasion.
I'll be interested in JC's report.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Actually the pause in the initial brewing isn't a gimmick. It's also repeated in the directions for using the Chemex manual method, as well as for the Melita manual filter setup (which I also have, inherited from my mom). The initial wetting of the grounds and a 30 second pause is supposed to allow the grounds to "bloom" and release more aroma and flavor than if they were to be submerged all at once in very hot water. Makes me wonder about the french press method, though. It does make some sense as coffee beans have a fair amount of protein. The residual chemist in me tells me that protein can be denatured and toughened by high heat. And water near boiling is high heat. By just wetting the grounds and letting them set a bit, the proteins might be better rehydrated and made softer, and the grounds made more porous than grounds with dry, heat toughened proteins.
I suppose one could try a manual Melita or Chemex filter and compare the two methods - adding the hot water all at once vs. pre-wetting the grounds, letting them "bloom", and then adding the rest of the water.
I suppose one could try a manual Melita or Chemex filter and compare the two methods - adding the hot water all at once vs. pre-wetting the grounds, letting them "bloom", and then adding the rest of the water.
The pause
The reason it seems like a gimmick to me is that there's a big difference between the dribbling of an automatic and the more heavy handed pour from a kettle. Pausing during the hand-pour process makes sense, but not so much during the relatively slow and even delivery from an automatic drip machine.
The reason it seems like a gimmick to me is that there's a big difference between the dribbling of an automatic and the more heavy handed pour from a kettle. Pausing during the hand-pour process makes sense, but not so much during the relatively slow and even delivery from an automatic drip machine.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Well, the idea is not a slow steady drip drip drip. But rather to add just enough saturate the grounds, then wait 30 seconds to a minute for the grounds to "bloom". Apparently that's a real thing, and one can sniff the aroma the "bloom" releases. I did some more reading and according to more than one site, the bloom is the release of CO2 trapped inside the beans. Although darker roasted coffees probably have less entrapped CO2, and one site says that coffees that were roasted more than a few days ago have probably lost most of their CO2 anyway. Personally I think that IF the bloom time is important, that CO2 release is just a symptom of the bloom, and like I conjectured earlier there may be other things going on with the coffee grounds. One site maintained that the coffee grounds need to be stirred gently during the bloom time. This helps to settle them, and the heavier ones sink to the bottom of the filter, helping to prevent clogging by fines. Also, without the pre-wetting and stirring, the grounds will tend to be more buoyant and float to the top of the filter cone or basket, not getting extracted as much.
I also found a discussion of french press methodology, and some maintain that one should add the water in a similar manner: a small amount, stir, wait a minute, then add the rest. I have noticed that in the french press there's a fair amount of buoyant grounds and foam when I add the water all at once. Haven't tried the pre-wetting technique with the press as yet.
I did try prewetting the grounds with the Scoop coffee maker. I simply used some of the pre-heat water to do that. I may experiment and actually pre-wet the grounds in a separate little vessel, let them sit a bit, then add the slurry to the filter and proceed with the regular drip process.
The pre-wetting of the grounds may get confused with the pre-wetting of the filter. Different purpose with the filter. It's supposed to clean it up, get rid of any paper taste, get rid of dust, and also preheat the basket/cone/receptacle. Since I'm using metal filters instead of paper I don't care much about getting rid of the paper taste (never have detected it anyway), but I think it helps to preheat the works before starting the regular drip process.
I know it all sounds complicated but there are some people who have put a lot of time and energy into brewing coffee just so, and their findings/opinions can be fascinating. Plus I have another week off work so I have time to play around with this stuff. It's not costing much except maybe getting me a bit more wired than usual, LOL.
Still not sure I want to try buttered coffee, though.
Here are some interesting links about the current coffee fad of "pour over" and how to do it...
Basic pour over technique:
http://imbibemagazine.com/Pour-Over-Coffee-Tips
And this guy, coincidentally named "Richie", has taken pour over to a whole new level, impressing an astrophysicist with his methodical study of how to hit the "sweet spot" with each cup...
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...-neighborhood-how-to-make-really-good-coffee/
I guess part of my fascination with all this is that it makes me a bit nostalgic of my science research days. I sort of miss being able to plan an experiment to try to isolate one variable and figure out what the best combination and technique might be. Seems to me that the perfect cup of coffee would be far less elusive than a LOT of the bio projects I was assigned... and you can consume the results!
I also found a discussion of french press methodology, and some maintain that one should add the water in a similar manner: a small amount, stir, wait a minute, then add the rest. I have noticed that in the french press there's a fair amount of buoyant grounds and foam when I add the water all at once. Haven't tried the pre-wetting technique with the press as yet.
I did try prewetting the grounds with the Scoop coffee maker. I simply used some of the pre-heat water to do that. I may experiment and actually pre-wet the grounds in a separate little vessel, let them sit a bit, then add the slurry to the filter and proceed with the regular drip process.
The pre-wetting of the grounds may get confused with the pre-wetting of the filter. Different purpose with the filter. It's supposed to clean it up, get rid of any paper taste, get rid of dust, and also preheat the basket/cone/receptacle. Since I'm using metal filters instead of paper I don't care much about getting rid of the paper taste (never have detected it anyway), but I think it helps to preheat the works before starting the regular drip process.
I know it all sounds complicated but there are some people who have put a lot of time and energy into brewing coffee just so, and their findings/opinions can be fascinating. Plus I have another week off work so I have time to play around with this stuff. It's not costing much except maybe getting me a bit more wired than usual, LOL.
Still not sure I want to try buttered coffee, though.
Here are some interesting links about the current coffee fad of "pour over" and how to do it...
Basic pour over technique:
http://imbibemagazine.com/Pour-Over-Coffee-Tips
And this guy, coincidentally named "Richie", has taken pour over to a whole new level, impressing an astrophysicist with his methodical study of how to hit the "sweet spot" with each cup...
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...-neighborhood-how-to-make-really-good-coffee/
I guess part of my fascination with all this is that it makes me a bit nostalgic of my science research days. I sort of miss being able to plan an experiment to try to isolate one variable and figure out what the best combination and technique might be. Seems to me that the perfect cup of coffee would be far less elusive than a LOT of the bio projects I was assigned... and you can consume the results!
I have the dial a brew and the chemex
I did this test some time ago. The main difference between the two was the pause and water temperature. The norelco was giving me about 185 and the chemex about 197 as I recall. The chemex also has the better water distribution system.
During the pause there is a noticeable difference in the aroma using the chemex vs. Brewing in the Norelco. In my opinion there is a noticeable difference in the taste too. The chemex has a richer taste to me and doesn't have any kind of bitter taste. I know the filters help to control some of that but I think the pause and the water temperature also contribute to it.
It's really all about personal preference I think. Some people will use a gas grill and others only charcoal, etc. My three favorite ways to make coffee has always been the Vacuum, Chemex and then a perc. Others will have a different preference. I guess it's all about our tastebuds.
It's funny that this came up now because I pulled out my chemex about a month ago and have been using it every day. I do prewet the filter and drain the water but don't really notice the difference from when I don't. I just do it because that's how I was taught to use the chemex back in teh early 80s when I was first introduced to this method. I had an automatic maker way back then and don't know what ever happened to it. This one I picked up on eBay and it works very well. I am really thrilled chemex is coming out with another automatic. But the price is steep. If the reviews are good I may spring for one of these if my 70s version should die. These are going for big bucks on eBay but I suspect this may change when the Ottomatic comes out.
[this post was last edited: 12/28/2014-09:39]
I did this test some time ago. The main difference between the two was the pause and water temperature. The norelco was giving me about 185 and the chemex about 197 as I recall. The chemex also has the better water distribution system.
During the pause there is a noticeable difference in the aroma using the chemex vs. Brewing in the Norelco. In my opinion there is a noticeable difference in the taste too. The chemex has a richer taste to me and doesn't have any kind of bitter taste. I know the filters help to control some of that but I think the pause and the water temperature also contribute to it.
It's really all about personal preference I think. Some people will use a gas grill and others only charcoal, etc. My three favorite ways to make coffee has always been the Vacuum, Chemex and then a perc. Others will have a different preference. I guess it's all about our tastebuds.
It's funny that this came up now because I pulled out my chemex about a month ago and have been using it every day. I do prewet the filter and drain the water but don't really notice the difference from when I don't. I just do it because that's how I was taught to use the chemex back in teh early 80s when I was first introduced to this method. I had an automatic maker way back then and don't know what ever happened to it. This one I picked up on eBay and it works very well. I am really thrilled chemex is coming out with another automatic. But the price is steep. If the reviews are good I may spring for one of these if my 70s version should die. These are going for big bucks on eBay but I suspect this may change when the Ottomatic comes out.
[this post was last edited: 12/28/2014-09:39]
I don't have a Chemex carafe, but do see them once in a while on thrifting excursions. I think I'll pick one up next time. I'd like to try using the first generation Norelco I have, and setting its simple pre-Dial-a-Brew basket lid into the carafe for better distribution of the heated water while brewing.
Does Chemex still include the little glass insert/top with their carafes to be used after brewing, or was that only an accessory on the automated models?
Does Chemex still include the little glass insert/top with their carafes to be used after brewing, or was that only an accessory on the automated models?
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
In my opinion percolators makes the better and tastier coffee vs the drip ones...they release more aroma..
I have my tecniques and secrets to make coffee, including what said before, the wetting and stirring, I always did that without anyone saying me anything or teaching me this, I felt like it was right to do ...some folks would look at me in a weird manner because of messing around while making coffee, but that's the way to make it good and I know what I'm doing ... it's not really merit of machine often, but of who makes coffee....during the time I developped my secrets....
I also have tecniques to use the moka...
I have a Napolitan style maker also and this one doesn't really need tricks, but it needs much patience and you need to keep it on eye while heating, it takes alot longer vs the moka and it's less "automatic"....
I mostly drink american coffee at home, but by living in Italy espresso is not missed around, and many of my guests drink esperesso....
Ask anyone ...I've always been famous among friends for my coffee.
We grind our own coffee since always....few ground packets enters in this house...[this post was last edited: 12/28/2014-20:47]
I have my tecniques and secrets to make coffee, including what said before, the wetting and stirring, I always did that without anyone saying me anything or teaching me this, I felt like it was right to do ...some folks would look at me in a weird manner because of messing around while making coffee, but that's the way to make it good and I know what I'm doing ... it's not really merit of machine often, but of who makes coffee....during the time I developped my secrets....
I also have tecniques to use the moka...
I have a Napolitan style maker also and this one doesn't really need tricks, but it needs much patience and you need to keep it on eye while heating, it takes alot longer vs the moka and it's less "automatic"....
I mostly drink american coffee at home, but by living in Italy espresso is not missed around, and many of my guests drink esperesso....
Ask anyone ...I've always been famous among friends for my coffee.
We grind our own coffee since always....few ground packets enters in this house...[this post was last edited: 12/28/2014-20:47]
sudsmaster
Well-known member
I recall seeing those little glass caps available as accessories on the Chemex web site. I don't think they are automatically included with the purchase of a Chemex combination filter/decanter vessel.
An Accessory
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I don't recall when I bought my auto maker in the early eighties whether it came with the lid or not but I don't believe they do now. It is always a separate purchase. Even the Ottomatic appears to come without the lid.</span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">The lid is worth it if you plan to keep the coffee on a warmer. Chemex claims the shape of the lid keeps the coffee from getting bitter. I always take my coffee and immediately put it in a Thermos decanter to keep it from cooking on a warmer of any kind. I generally make 5 cups at a time and drink it fairly quickly.</span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I don't recall when I bought my auto maker in the early eighties whether it came with the lid or not but I don't believe they do now. It is always a separate purchase. Even the Ottomatic appears to come without the lid.</span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">The lid is worth it if you plan to keep the coffee on a warmer. Chemex claims the shape of the lid keeps the coffee from getting bitter. I always take my coffee and immediately put it in a Thermos decanter to keep it from cooking on a warmer of any kind. I generally make 5 cups at a time and drink it fairly quickly.</span>
mrb627
Well-known member
Bunn Brewer
I have the toughest time finding paper filters for my Bunn coffee maker. I used to get them readily at OfficeMax of all places. They were the only retailer to keep them in stock. Unfortunately, they have since been absorbed and doors have closed. Visits to several stores proved to be a waste of time, I could order them online on Amazon, but they are three times the price. A Google search this afternoon indicated that only one retailer in the Atlanta area keeps them in stock. Frys. So, after dinner, I took a road trip to my closest frys. There, they had a shelf full of them. I bought a years supply.
What a pain in the arse!
Malcolm
I have the toughest time finding paper filters for my Bunn coffee maker. I used to get them readily at OfficeMax of all places. They were the only retailer to keep them in stock. Unfortunately, they have since been absorbed and doors have closed. Visits to several stores proved to be a waste of time, I could order them online on Amazon, but they are three times the price. A Google search this afternoon indicated that only one retailer in the Atlanta area keeps them in stock. Frys. So, after dinner, I took a road trip to my closest frys. There, they had a shelf full of them. I bought a years supply.
What a pain in the arse!
Malcolm
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Malcolm...
Any luck in Europe?
Any luck in Europe?
Bunn Filters
Malcom, I was hoping you hadn't found a place to buy them.
I bought a box at ACE Hardware just few weeks ago because they were priced lower than Melitta and right on the box was the statement that they would fit other brewers that use a pleated, flat bottom filter.
Well, they're slightly oversized and require extra care to use them in my Cuisinart. I'd have sent you the box, as well as to ACE in the future, if you hadn't found them at Fry's.
Malcom, I was hoping you hadn't found a place to buy them.
I bought a box at ACE Hardware just few weeks ago because they were priced lower than Melitta and right on the box was the statement that they would fit other brewers that use a pleated, flat bottom filter.
Well, they're slightly oversized and require extra care to use them in my Cuisinart. I'd have sent you the box, as well as to ACE in the future, if you hadn't found them at Fry's.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Malcolm:
Also, any restaurant supply company should have Bunn filters, because Bunns are such a staple in the restaurant biz. Atlanta is full of restaurant supply companies, and virtually all of them will sell to the public.
Also, any restaurant supply company should have Bunn filters, because Bunns are such a staple in the restaurant biz. Atlanta is full of restaurant supply companies, and virtually all of them will sell to the public.
Restaurant BUNN Filters
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">It seems to me that years ago I tried the Restaurant BUNN filters and they were larger than those used in the home brewers. </span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I find the BUNN filters here in Arkansas at Target, ACE Hardware and Kroger. It's funny I can never find stuff in Arkansas that others have plenty of expect these BUNN filters. Seems they are all over the place and generally around $2.00 a box. I'd be curious to know what others pay for them.</span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">It seems to me that years ago I tried the Restaurant BUNN filters and they were larger than those used in the home brewers. </span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I find the BUNN filters here in Arkansas at Target, ACE Hardware and Kroger. It's funny I can never find stuff in Arkansas that others have plenty of expect these BUNN filters. Seems they are all over the place and generally around $2.00 a box. I'd be curious to know what others pay for them.</span>
mrb627
Well-known member
Filter Sizes
I think there are 4 different sizes for Bunn coffee makers. My system takes the smallest 8-10 cup. The next size up is the 10-12 cup followed by the larger commercial sizes.
There are several complaints of people buying the wrong size for their machine. If I didn't like this brewer as much as I do, I would have been actively looking for its replacement.
Malcolm
I think there are 4 different sizes for Bunn coffee makers. My system takes the smallest 8-10 cup. The next size up is the 10-12 cup followed by the larger commercial sizes.
There are several complaints of people buying the wrong size for their machine. If I didn't like this brewer as much as I do, I would have been actively looking for its replacement.
Malcolm
polkanut
Well-known member
This is what we currently use. Two old-fashioned Norelco Dial-A-Brew coffee makers. We have 2 of them in use because my wife likes flavored coffee, and I don't. Can't stand the aftertaste of most flavored coffees.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Nor...0131017132637&meid=6c7f014c3a8a4547ac79cdd5ad
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Nor...0131017132637&meid=6c7f014c3a8a4547ac79cdd5ad
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Tim, that ebay Norelco isn't a Dial-A-Brew. It's an earlier model like the one I have. Typical ebay seller misrepresentation (or ignorance) of the item they have up for auction.
The shape of the carafe also changed later, possibly with the introduction of the DAB models. The carafes are interchangeable between models. I prefer the more graceful lines of the early types. The earliest ones have a black band below the neck. The ebay one is the next later type with the brushed aluminum band.
The shape of the carafe also changed later, possibly with the introduction of the DAB models. The carafes are interchangeable between models. I prefer the more graceful lines of the early types. The earliest ones have a black band below the neck. The ebay one is the next later type with the brushed aluminum band.
polkanut
Well-known member
I thought the Model HB5150 was the original version. Just thought they had the wrong basket on it. Ours are HB5150's.
It will say Diall a Brew
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">In the front.</span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">In the front.</span>
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
Malcom
I have had very good luck getting filters for my Bunn at Wal-Mart and K-Mart.
Though not always consistent, Dillon's is another source. I usually buy two boxes at a time. Amazon carries them in a pinch, but eeek-gods they want a testicle for them plus shipping.
You can also order directly from Bunn, but again you have to pay shipping, but get to keep the testicle.
I usually pay .98 to $1.16 for a box of 100. Amazon wants $4.38.
Bunn is more in line, but shipping. Great deal is 1,000 for $10.99. May never have to buy again.
Lowe's is also showing availability at their locations. [this post was last edited: 1/5/2015-14:54]
http://https//homecatalog.bunn.com/category/Home-Catalog-US/ACCESSORIES/Paper-Filters
I have had very good luck getting filters for my Bunn at Wal-Mart and K-Mart.
Though not always consistent, Dillon's is another source. I usually buy two boxes at a time. Amazon carries them in a pinch, but eeek-gods they want a testicle for them plus shipping.
You can also order directly from Bunn, but again you have to pay shipping, but get to keep the testicle.
I usually pay .98 to $1.16 for a box of 100. Amazon wants $4.38.
Bunn is more in line, but shipping. Great deal is 1,000 for $10.99. May never have to buy again.
Lowe's is also showing availability at their locations. [this post was last edited: 1/5/2015-14:54]
http://https//homecatalog.bunn.com/category/Home-Catalog-US/ACCESSORIES/Paper-Filters
My Norelco
Tim,
I checked and found my Norelco to be a model HD5135. Unlike the one pictured in the ebay listing, mine is a "Norelco 10" even though the carafe is the same size. Markings on it only go up to 10 cups. I don't have a later carafe to compare with, but I'm sure they just changed the markings to equal 12 smaller cups.
I've attached a picture. I think it must be an earlier model than most.
[this post was last edited: 1/5/2015-20:04]
Tim,
I checked and found my Norelco to be a model HD5135. Unlike the one pictured in the ebay listing, mine is a "Norelco 10" even though the carafe is the same size. Markings on it only go up to 10 cups. I don't have a later carafe to compare with, but I'm sure they just changed the markings to equal 12 smaller cups.
I've attached a picture. I think it must be an earlier model than most.
[this post was last edited: 1/5/2015-20:04]
sudsmaster
Well-known member
The Scoop Update
I'm pretty much using The Scoop exclusively for the morning (and afternoon) coffee.
I have also found a shortcut for pre-wetting the grounds. I simply add an ounce or two of water to the reservoir, add grounds to the filter, and run a cycle. It's just enough water to allow the coffee maker to heat it up and send it over, into the waiting coffee mug. When the little blue brew light goes out, I add the remainder of the water and run the brew cycle again. This appears to be enough pre-wetting to let the grounds "bloom" and the result is a tasty cup. Currently I'm using Kirkland Columbian (100% Arabica), which is a medium roast, drip ground.
And yes, I do notice a difference between just straight brewing and using this sequential "pre-wetting" method.
I'm pretty much using The Scoop exclusively for the morning (and afternoon) coffee.
I have also found a shortcut for pre-wetting the grounds. I simply add an ounce or two of water to the reservoir, add grounds to the filter, and run a cycle. It's just enough water to allow the coffee maker to heat it up and send it over, into the waiting coffee mug. When the little blue brew light goes out, I add the remainder of the water and run the brew cycle again. This appears to be enough pre-wetting to let the grounds "bloom" and the result is a tasty cup. Currently I'm using Kirkland Columbian (100% Arabica), which is a medium roast, drip ground.
And yes, I do notice a difference between just straight brewing and using this sequential "pre-wetting" method.
My Dial A Brew
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">This is the one I have that I have used with a Chemex pot. If anyone wants this I'd be glad to send it. As I have the Chemex brand Auto Maker I really don't need this one. I picked it up a couple of years ago at a sale for $5 and I thought it would be fun to play with. I have gone way overboard and have too many coffee brewers. I'm likely not to use this one.</span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">This is the one I have that I have used with a Chemex pot. If anyone wants this I'd be glad to send it. As I have the Chemex brand Auto Maker I really don't need this one. I picked it up a couple of years ago at a sale for $5 and I thought it would be fun to play with. I have gone way overboard and have too many coffee brewers. I'm likely not to use this one.</span>
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