Because Life is TOO short for bad coffee...

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funktionalart

funktionalart

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Jun 2, 2014
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Once in awhile I see postings about coffee makers and have always kept my input to myself for fear of coming off as a coffee snob. While I LOVE my vintage brewers and other appliances, THIS new machine of mine is "IT".

Being European, anything but a proper cuppa doesn't cut it in my life. Ventured into the Kcup world once to see what that was all about--seriously let down. Brown water, in my opinion. Plus I refuse to pay money for anything made in China. If it's not U.S. or European-built then it doesn't cross my threshold.

So, if any of you SERIOUSLY love good, properly made coffee and grind your own beans then latch on to a Technivorm. The French Roast beans shown in my pic are avail. at Costco for anywhere from $12-14 for a alb bag (i.e.. PENNIES per cup!). Price dependent on market obviously. DEE-LISH!

Yeah, Technivorm isn't cheap. However, it's non-computerised/no frills/handbuilt in The Netherlands and a VERY nice unit. Full copper heating coil, and proper brew temperature (which is consistent from start to finish of cycle). They run FOREVER. Failures and returns are uncommon for them. Quite a number of buyers have been running them for over 25 years with zero issues or replacements. I'm happy.

The closest thing to this machine I have is a Krups "Moka" F468 (aka T8 in Europe). They are next to impossible to find in the States (though a new version was released this year after a VERY long absence from Stateside market). Almost bought a new one....until I saw that Krups are farming production out to China. Deal breaker.

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I have almost bought a Technivorm on a few occasions, and still really want one, but I can't justify the cost being that I already have an American made Bunn commercial brewer that makes coffee just about as good as the Technivorm.
 
Allen-- I see you're using the thin plastic pad the carafe sits on. Mine would never stay put, so I tossed it. The only quibble I ever had was the basket would drip furiously when the lever was pushed down to stop the flow of coffee into the carafe when grabbing a cup mid-brew. I think they've fixed that with the newest model.

While I enjoy the convenience and versatility (tea, iced drinks, hot cocoa) of the Keurig 2.0, the Moccamaster is the Lexus of drip coffee makers. Give it an unbleached filter, pristine water, and well-roasted fresh-ground beans and you'll not taste a more nuanced, flavorful cup of coffee made on residential equipment.
 
One of our Chicagoland members just got one of these and we used it while visiting this last October.  Not only is it a fun coffeemaker to watch working, it was one of the best home-brewed coffees I've had. 

 

I, too, am going through a Keurig phase but the Moccamaster is on my List of Want.  Someday...

 

Allen, are you liking the thermal carafe?  Does it cool the coffee while brewing at all?  Keep it hot?
 
Gansky-- The thermal carafe will hold coffee at what I consider a drinkable temperature for a couple of hours if you first rinse it with hot water. I had no need to hold coffee warm all morning, so the thermal carafe was fine by me. Technivorm also makes a Moccamaster with the familiar glass carafe and a warmer if you're so inclined.

Glad to know I'm not the only one going through a Keurig phase, LOL. I love having a dozen different coffees to choose from, as well as tea, lemonade, and the milk-based drinks like Cafe Vanilla, Cafe Caramel and various hot cocoas.
 
My only issue with a thermal carafe is the difficulty in cleaning due to the small opening.  I do own a bottle brush, but that just adds another step. 

 

If I could find a separate grinder that had a neat and tidy dispensing system, I might consider a Moccamaster after my Cuisinart Burr Grind & Brew inevitably fails.

 

Maybe I've been skimming over things or maybe I've forgotten, but what about the Moccamaster's brewing process is so different from other drip systems that results in a superior cup of coffee?
 
Interesting that this was posted the day I thought my 13 year old Phillips drip brewer at work appeared to die. I've had this machine at 3 different jobs and it has done an amazing job over the years.

Monday morning the brewer didn't want to pump out and it just sat there and steamed till it brewed 3/4 of the pot then tripped the power strip breaker. I decided perhaps I should do a citric acid cleaning and oddly the water came out brown and with debris in it! When I rinsed out the reservoir I found somehow I had dropped a whole bean in and it had plugged the outlet hole!! A super easy fix :)

One question I have about these machines is do they have a hold warm tank like a pour through Bunn? Specs say 10 cups in 6 min which is speedy if it is heating water real time.
 
Phil-- There is no held-over water in the Moccamaster. It heats in real time, thanks to its powerful copper boiler. Your Phillips has really hung in there! The most common user complaint about new coffeemakers is their brief lifespan. No such problems with the Technivorm line.

Ralph-- I doesn't really do anything special; the water is simply at the correct brewing temp for most of the cycle, unlike many other coffeemakers. Many start cool, then overheat; others don't hit the target temp 'til the very end of the cycle. Again, it's due to the Moccamaster's powerful, well-controlled copper boiler. The resulting cup, being brewed in the target range for most of the cycle, is full-flavored, nuanced, and not bitter or astringent.
 
Thanks Eugene.  I have no idea of how evenly my Cuisinart heats the water or if it does so at the optimum temperature.  I'll see if it's possible to check it with an instant-read thermometer.  I do know that all the automatic drip machines I've opened up have had an aluminum or stainless steel boiler, so copper seems like a major improvement.
 
Eugene, Thanks for confirming its not a tank style like a Bunn. In some ways the Bunn system is really the best. Water temp is actually thermostatically controlled and the brew cycle is very repeatable. For just one pot a day though, its wasteful to hold the tank warm though.

The idea of six min for 10 cups seemed speedy to me, the old rule was generally a minute per cup. Just for humor I ran a full pot (8 cups) on my Phillips and it steamed out in just 5 min so that is really just as quick. It always seems longer while waiting on actual coffee ;)

I had to search for a while but I finally found the Mochamaster's wattage, its 1400 watts, the same as the Philips I have, so both are 4800 BTU's The idea of a copper heat exchanger is attractive for durability but it really shouldn't alter time to heat more then a small percentage.

I love the build quality of these, and I will consider one when I need a replacement. The biggest failing of the Philips I have is that is just kinda dumps the water on the grounds. It needs a better spray head like the old Bunn brewers have to distribute the water for a more consistent Sparge.

I'm the only person here that drinks coffee so I get to make it how I like. My coworkers think I'm crazy for grinding whole beans every day. To each their own!
 
Ralph,

 

When I was researching the Cuisinart some time ago, I recall reading that part of the good result it gets is from good temperature control as well as a relatively rapid brew cycle. The model with the thermal carafe got higher marks than your glass carafe model, because the reviewers didn't like coffee that had been kept hot with external heat ("cooked"), but otherwise the machines are identical.

 

I like the Cuisinart still, but frankly it's overkill if all you want is one cup. The Scoop is quicker and seems to make pretty good coffee. I actually prefer the results with The Scoop on the Regular (fast) setting. I fill the scoop to the Max line (about 2-1/2 scoops) and then add only 12 oz water, instead of 14, cause that fills my standard coffee mug. The only real drawback to The Scoop is that you have to grind beans separately. The whirly grinder does a good enough job, but I'm thinking I'll need to break out the burr grinder to get a more uniform particle size.

 

The Scoop is also a bit easier to clean than the Cuisinart. Generally I clean three pieces after each brewing session: the primary filter (the "Scoop"), the secondary filter, and the filter holder. I'll also take a wipe at the silicone rubber gasket on the spray head if it's got grounds on it. There's a hook on the side of the machine to hang the Scoop, so by the next morning it's dry and ready for more grounds if one likes to use it as an actual scoop in a can of coffee. I don't, I measure out the grounds with a separate scoop instead. 

 

 

 
Cuisinart brew temp

The review at this link states that water temp is the Cusinart Burr Grind 'n Brew's Achilles heel, with the brew temp averaging only 185F, vs. the preferred brew temp of 200F.

 

Now I'm gonna have to test mine!

 

Personally it's not a huge issue for me, as I don't like overbrewed, bitter coffee. I even prefer using the quicker (and less strong) setting on The Scoop. But I think The Scoop's brew temp is closer to 200. We'll see!

 

www.cnet.com

Cuisinart DGB-900 Burr Grind & Brew Thermal 12-Cup Automatic Coffeemaker review: A coffee-grinder-brewer combo that could be much better

The Cuisinart DGB-900 Burr Grind and Brew Thermal Coffeemaker merges burr grinder and drip coffeemaker into one machine but still creates a bland brew.
www.cnet.com www.cnet.com
 
OK, tested the Scoop. With about 12 oz of water, no coffee. The water coming into the basket was in the 180's, and gradually got up to about 194 by the end of brewing. Odd, I thought.

 

Then I wondered what the temp would be if I ran it immediately again, with more water. I reasoned that a lot of the water temp had gone to heating up the apparatus. Now that it was warmed up, I wanted to see.

 

Sure enough, running a second 12 oz of just water through, the brew temp soon reached the high 190's and then 200 F for the last part of the brewing.

 

Cool, I thought. But to make room for the thermometer I had omitted the primary filter. I put that back in and ran about 8 oz through the machine. While that was going on, I ground some coffee. Once the 8oz had run through and into the mug, I put the correct amount of grounds in the filter, added 12 oz of water again to the machine, dumped out the hot water from the coffee mug. Result? Measured at the filter assembly outlet, the finished coffee averaged in the mid 190's, approaching 200F towards the end. The coffee in the pre-heated cup was a piping hot 185.

 

Taste test with Veranda Blonde? Excellent. In fact, a bit stronger than I usually like!

 

So... my suggestion for the crew is, run a few cups of plain water through your automatic drip machines with the filter basket and carafe in place to preheat the machine. Then add the coffee and fresh water, dump out the plain water from the carafe, and enjoy.

 

Now, this technique would be a bit trickier with the Cuisinart Grind 'n Brew, because it would get the geared cover on the filter basket, which is supposed to be kept dry, sort of wet. A work around could be to have a spare cover handy to put in place. That is if the wet geared cover is a problem at all. One would have to disable the grinder for the pre-heating cups of water, check the geared cover for wetness (and maybe towel it off or substitute a "cold" assembly in its place) and then add the proper amount of water, dump out the previous plain water (which has conveniently pre-warmed the carafe as well), and then do a normal grind and brew.

 

Come to think of it, prewarming a French Press might be a good idea as well.

 

The Bunn obviously gets around the prewarming issue by keeping a water tank at the proper brew temp all the time. Some of that heat must be transmitted to the rest of the system, as well. I'm wondering if some of the pricier drip units, like Technivorm, have some way of preheating the unit before brewing starts.
 
Correct & Constant Temperature

One can not over-state the necessity of maintaining the correct temperature throughout the brew cycle.  Be it a single cup or carafe of drip, or extracting a shot of espresso, that one part of the process can kill it all.  Although with the many varieties of coffee Keurig offers, it's "possible" to enjoy the flavors the machine will allow, their machines are notoriously "cool", with their default temperature of around 192°.  Sorry, ain't gonna cut it.  Depending on the beans/roast, somewhere around the 200° mark, (+/-) is where the temperature needs to be.  

 

For all the reasons already stated, Technivorm, and a few other manufacturers understand this and design machines capable of producing proper, consistent results.  Life 'really is too short for bad coffee'.  An investment in a Technivorm coffee maker is just that, and when the cost is amortized over its rather liberal life-span - is a true bargain.
 
So, how exactly does Technivorm ensure consistent water temp? Like any other coffee make they have to contend with cold parts (probably plastic) that will cool down the water before it hits the grounds. Do they have a pre-heating technology? Or do they adjust the water temp at the spray head to compensate for the inevitable heat sinking?

 
 
To answer some Technivorm questions...

Eugene, Gansky1, Jason and Ralph:
This thread looks like it is gonna get as long as my reply here so....here are my observations on some of the VERY minor niggling design issues with the Moccamaster thermal:

1) Carafe opening IS small. Most men (and bulk of women) will not be able to hand clean the interior. The small opening is only troublesome for cleaning. Most of us can deal with that or find a way 'round the issue via proper bottle brush. It was one of two issues I had over the years of mulling over buying one or not. This is a $US300 machine so you want to be positive you can live with its little flaws at that cost. The second concern is that I prefer a thermal glass interior. I do fill the Moccamaster carafe with scalding hot water and let it sit awhile before I pour it out then brew. It helps, but you're hard-pressed to get more than a couple hours' worth of hot coffee after doing this...

Pics below are of the Krups design thermal which I LOVE! This design was found on the Aroma Control and DuoThek models. The damned things are pretty much unavailable new in the US. You CAN buy them online from Germany...at something like 80 euro each. I've hoarded about 8 of them....heheheh. They crop up on ebay. Prices all over the place. Anywhere between $US20 and $US50. $US 35 is pretty much what to expect to pay for a used one unless you REALLY watch BUY IT NOW sales. If Technivorm carafe isn't good enough for you, just brew into it anyway then store your fresh coffee in the Krups carafe.

I have yet to find a better carafe ever for keeping temps long term (HOURS. Really). I own many, many vintage 80s/90s Krups thermal brewers. This carafe is unbeatable. You can get your entire hand inside and clean thoroughly. No matter which way you hold this carafe you get a PERFECT drip-free pour. Moccamaster tends to pour wide and sloppy if you aren't very attentive and diligent about doing so. If Techinivorm could design a very similar carafe then I would personally be over the moon with the entire setup. To my knowledge, only a handful of mfg. make a glass lined thermal--Capresso/Jura being one of them...glass lined are incredibly uncommon but I personally think they are far more efficient. They also do not transfer any odd flavours to your brew (Yeah...I can taste the steel from a thermal carafe if it isn't seasoned... :/ )

2) Brew basket: Nothing about the one on the Technivorm bothers me. No dripping when I close the flow switch. Well...one or 2 small drops occasionally. Not a problem

3) Carafe base pad: Also no trouble with mine. I honestly don't see any real need for it aside from it seeming to be somewhat integral to the design of the machine.

4) Carafe Storage: With the Technivorm set up on your countertop as it was designed, you cannot keep the carafe under the brew basket when the carafe cap is in place. It is just a wee bit too tall to fit. The fix for me: I have the machine sitting on a thin teflon cutting board. This raises machine just right to go ahead and slide the capped carafe back under the basket. Only other solution for this would be putting thick rubber bumper type stick on feet under the base to raise the whole machine.

Now...all that said, I was fully prepared to shell out full retail (OY!) for a Moccamaster as a gift to myself. However, due to my CL addiction and luck, I got mine practically unused (it is in GORGEOUS as new condition) a few days ago via a very lucky CL search. FIFTY bucks. Yes...ya heard right. A Technivorm for less than the cost of a shite Mr. Coffee. I actually stayed up all nite so I didn't oversleep and miss out on this one. Got it from a SUPER nice Aussie couple who barely used it. Will probably be using this thing well into my dotage :D

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