Best washer for large family?

[warmsecondrinse]

Yes, water is required of course to keep things flowing. The issue is not the septic tank itself, but how much water the leeching field can absorb at a time. If water's going in faster than it's going out, the level in the tank will rise. This is expected (i.e. TL washer draining) and capacity is calculated into tank size. However, if:

water inflow g.p.m. > tank capacity at start + water outflow g.p.m.

the level in the tank will rise. If it continues there'll be a problem for your basement

Water outfow g.p.m. is not a static number. Day to day it depends on how saturated the leeching field is with water from rain, runoff, etc.

Jim

 

[suburbanmd]

Facts about septic systems

from the rare septic enthusiast who replaced his tank voluntarily, not because the government ordered it.

Solids are supposed to settle in the septic tank, not make it out to the leach field. When too much tank space is taken up by solids it's time to get it pumped, or solids may get out to the field and clog it. Once the field is clogged, pumping the tank isn't going to help. Then you're in for considerable expense, unless you have an alternate leach field to switch to. That'll give the original field a chance to rest, which may restore it to working order.

10 years or so ago, I got concerned about my leach field, because if it failed I would have to hook up to the sewer system. A good septic contractor told me that if I want the field to last, I should get a two-compartment tank with an outlet filter. He suggested a 1500-gallon tank, but I went for 2000-gallon which didn't cost much more. The tank has risers up to the surface so I can easily check it. I check at least once a year. So far there's moderate sludge in the first compartment, and no sludge in the second compartment (judging by poking with a 2x4). As long as it's like that, there's no benefit to getting the tank pumped. When I check the tank I also clean the filter. I always find stuff in it, but it's never been completely full.

 

[mtn1584]

Septic tank pumping...

The first time was necessary after my son flushed a whole box of baby wipes down the toilet and they made their way to the drop down box before clogging the fields!! Thank God!!
After that it was preventative maintenance because we use "moist wipes" as well as toilet paper. It wasn't because of the washer, but I felt an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Besides I have a hook up with a friend who owns a Septic Tank Cleaning Company.
Mike

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Once upon a time (I was probably still a teen) I was told that it was a leEching field, not a leAching field. I never bothered to check it myself. I guess I had it right the first time.

I should mention that my knowledge comes from home owners and professionals but applies only to systems installed in the late 60's.

Yes, solids are supposed to settle in the bottom of the tank and be broken down by bacterial action, hence the monthly Rid-X application. However, minute/microscopic particles are suspended in the liquid and DO clog the field, but that is supposed to take several decades at least.

More wisdom from the 1960's:
-Once you open a septic tank the necessary bacterial balance is damaged and unlikely to ever be restored.
-leaching field life can be extended by installing a runoff pipe to carry overflow liquid to a smaller, more distant area to leach.
-ditto with a separate and smaller system installed to handle just the washing machine.

IIRC, there was a whole list of do's and dont's homebuyers got when they moved into the late 60's development I grew up in. I have a vague recollection of my dad and some neighbors talking about how the more items on the list people followed, the longer they went without needed to have their septic tank pumped out. I think my parents tank lasted 22 years.

 

[washer111]

My grandfather's septic system was finally given a huge amount of TLC this past year, having been in place for the better part of 30-40 years. Most of the time, the household has been between 2 and 4 persons. 

 

Given that he's on a farm, and there is a vast amount of space about the house, I'm not sure where the leaching field *actually* is. Following the tank, there is a "mound" of very green grass. Almost too green. 

Then I think it goes straight on from there into the small "bush" between the driveway and closest paddock about 20-30m away. It probably isn't huge, but the presence of huge gumtrees, several fruit trees that bear some fruit occasionally and other natives ought to be a suggestion of where the leeching field runs - roughly, at least. 

 

The problem had been the rubber tree *near* the tank getting in and blocking off the leech drain right as it leaves the tank. That, and the main run from the kitchen/laundry was blocked with all manner of rubbish from the last 30-40 years. This isn't bad considering the age of the system and clay pipes that could be even older. 

 

What I do know is the tank was pumped for the first time in at least a decade. Drains all run freely as a city system. Everything is great!

The leeching field was not touched. I suppose the system is sized well for the task it handles. Its now just him, and very few loads of laundry. Just a nightly bath and of course, the loo and kitchen sink. Even with two people, it wasn't bad. 

 

Really, it goes to show that even with relative neglect, septic systems can still work very well if they aren't subjected to intense strain. His "daily driver washer" is a 20-25 year old F&P SmartDrive - one of the first ever made. Aside from issues with mice and wiring, it has not skipped a beat. Take that, naysayers

 

(This also goes to show what happens if the folks here at AW.org get wind of something interesting. The latest thread goes off on a tangent of sorts). 

 

[launderess]

Bringing It Back On Home

Best anyone can do when researching appliances is to enquire of informed views then dissect given information use along with other sources.

Miele, Speed Queen, etc... it is like Baskin and Robbins ice cream; everyone has their favorite but that may not be up your particular street.

Besides having a degree in Marketing am a natural cynic; so when Speed Queen says "Built Better To Last Longer..." my first reaction is "than what?".

Happily Alliance provides a handy-dandy calculator....http://www.speedqueen.com/the-speed-queen-difference.aspx#durability

All laundry appliances both commercial and domestic have what is commonly referred to as a duty life cycle. That is how many loads per day (or week) they are rated to process. This number in turn provides an *estimate* of how long the machine will last on average. Of course commercial washers and dryers are largely designed for repair and or even being rebuilt. There are commercial washers >30 years old that have basically over the years had almost every major part replaced (motor, bearings, etc....) and are still chugging along.

Average lifespan of washers is around 250 hours/10-11 years. Front loaders can have a shorter lifespan of only about five years but there are qualifications to both.

H-Axis washers subjected to heavy use where not designed to cope can and often do develop rear bearing, spider and other issues. As often the cost of parts and repair (if it can be done at all) equals half or more of original cost of machine. Thus most will opt to simply chuck the thing and buy new.

Any home doing three to four loads per day should look to a front loader with quasi commercial design. Even certain OPL machines sold for use in beauty salons, bed and breakfasts and other places that do a lot of laundry on a daily basis.

 

[neptunebob]

As Jo Frost from Supernanny would say...

What about the elephant in the room: Family Planning! I don't think there would be such an issue with the septic tank if the family were smaller. Don't make it any more!

Oh, and I do agree with the above posters the Speed Queen or LG front loaders would be good choices in your situation.

 

[iej]

For a huge family, I would actually go with two European style front loader stacks side by side.

I don't think one huge machine is very flexible. Ultra high capacity front loaders are often very slow. They get the extra capacity by extending the wash times when they're heavily loaded.

Having two mid sized machines would be way more flexible.

Also, how often do you actually want to wash all your laundry in a single cycle?

Towels & t-shirts?
Dark colours and whites?
Wool and cotton ?

You could have your towels on in one machine on a hot wash while still having a second machine available to do something else.

 

[mrb627]

Intersting Thread...

People have used TL machines with septic systems for years. What has changed?

Malcolm

 

[frigilux]

Septic Systems: As with so many things in this life, I know little about these. Every farm in the area has one, of course, out of necessity. What are the advantages of having a septic system over being hooked up to a community's sewer system? #towniequestion

As is the case with most casual visitors to AW, Patrice received the information she needed and returned to her life, leaving us full rein to let this thread veer off in any direction we choose, LOL.

 

[iej]

There's no advantage to them. In fact, they're a major inconvenience and less environmentally friendly in many cases.

They don't verse much environmental impact, if they're maintained properly and if there isn't a major concentration of them.

There have been plenty of reported cases where an area becomes popular for homes - some lake side getaway with stunning views. As more homes go up, if they're all on septic tank systems there's a risk of water contamination with biological pathogens and also a major risk of nitrate pollution caused by release from organic materials in the waste water.

Also no matter what you do, household cleaners will have elements that end up back in the environment as a septic system is only deigned to break down organic waste. So things like polymers and other components of cleaning agents end up back in the ground water in some cases!

A septic tank system or anything similar is a solution for a home that cannot be connected to a public sewer as non exists. So, normally they're only used in rural areas where one-off houses can't be connected up to anything as there simply isn't anything to connect them to.

If you have a system like that, you need to be 100% aware of how to maintain and manage it.

The single biggest risk is where someone buys a house that has such a system without any idea how to use it. They can end up causing water pollution accidentally.

You also need to avoid using lots of chlorine bleaches as they can sterilise the tank, stopping the microgranisms that breakdown the waste from working.

In general with a system like that you need a specialist contractor to check it at regular intervals.

 

[mrb627]

veer off in any direction...

We can be like the patients in a mental ward, sometimes...

Malcolm

 

[iheartmaytag]

Well I would tell Jo Frost

. . .who I think is hot BTW.
The size of the family is none-ya business. If you aren't being asked to produce or support them your obligation is nill. The request was for a washer.

Now if you want to reduce the wash load numbers and the demand on the septic system, go nude. No clothes to wash, problem solved.

And Dear Laundress:
As always, I agree with you.

 

[launderess]

OP applied for information regarding a washing machine

Not a leaflet from Planned Parenthood.

The first remark could be put down to a little jest; but to keep harping on about it was just uncalled for.

Septic systems:

There isn't a clear advantage over being connected to local sewer system; it comes down to several factors.

Some properties either do not have a local sewer system and or the owners do not want to pay the costs for connections with perhaps monthly or whatever rates.

Yes, for rural/farm properties septic systems are usually the norm given their remote location. OTOH urban areas you most likely will find municipal sewer systems with properties connected.

Humans like all living creatures produce waste and it has to go somewhere. In the country you can empty slop jars out back somewhere or relive oneself the woods (or a field of tall cotton, *LOL*). Obviously in a city you don't have that option.

Urban areas though the years had various methods of dealing with sewage ranging from cesspits to crude drains/sewage systems. Problem was most if not all relied upon sending untreated waste into bodies of water. That and or it was held in tanks/pits or whatever that leaked and contaminated ground water.

All this meant cities like London, New York, Paris and so forth not only stunk to high heaven but accounts for outbreaks of chlorera and typhoid. Those diseases are caused by consuming water contaminated with fecal matter.

Finally in the middle to late 1800's the link between germ contaminated water and disease was firmly established *and* accepted. It was then governments began to develop and install what would become the foundations of modern sewage systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesspit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stink

Early objections to municipal sewer systems fell into two camps: the smells as gases worked their way up through the drains and into buildings and that rodents (mainly rats) could use the pipes as conduits into same.

Modern designs of both sewer systems and pipes/drains have largely eliminated both the gas/odor problem along with threat of rats. However in some lesser developed areas you are wise to look down before you sit.....

End of thread drift.....[this post was last edited: 9/3/2015-20:38]

 

[appnut]

Laundress, thank you for the admonishment.  I was so appalled, I couldn't come up with a tactful way as you did. 

 

[launderess]

Another chance to disapprove, another brilliant zinger....

And here's to the girls that watch, aren't they the best?

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Septic Tank vs Sewer System?

I think I'm about to either reveal my ignorance or deliver a flash of insight to you all...

I'm afraid I've never even heard of anyone, anywhere having any kind of choice as to which to use. AFAIK, either there is no sewer system so one must install a septic tank OR there IS a sewer system and connection to that is a legal requirement. Is this yet another example of my living under a rock?

Jim

 

[kb0nes]

Choice can happen under certain conditions. My girlfriends father built their home in 1981 is a semi-rural area. When the home was built a septic system (and a private well) was the only option. Some years later the city came through and brought in public water and sewer. Hooking up to either or was an option. He chose to connect to the public water but kept the septic system. He kept the well too for lawn irrigation.

I believe that they chose to go to city water for fear of ground water contamination in their aquifer. They live within a mile of a couple of Superfund dump sites where 3M disposed of various chemicals in the 70's.

I'd bet that in many cases the city might push to get people off their septic system when the sewer goes in. John's house in Beltsville was converted from septic to city sewer in about 1968. I don't recall if it was optional.

 

[launderess]

If sewer conections exist when a builing goes up

You'd have to have some pretty strong convictions not to opt for it and use a septic tank instead.

OTOH yes, many times when a property was initially developed septic tanks were all on offer because the area didn't have municipal sewer connections.

When you think about suburban sprawl and how once farm/rural land increasingly became and still becomes very developed it is easy to see these changes.

Speaking of New Jersey you have plenty of areas in the south, north and central that were once farm land but are rapidly developing. A septic tank may have been good enough when it was just a farmer's main house and some outbuildings; but subdivide a several hundred acres into scores of new houses or worse apartment buildings, then it is a safe bet some sort of sewer system is going in.

 

[combo52]

Septic Systems For Homes

Our family home here in Beltsville was first occupied in 1956, and it had city water service and a septic system. Around 1960 just before we mover here in 61 they dug up the streets and installed a sewer system.

 

Many neighbors had had problems and started hooking up to the city sewer system, but is was optional. My parents had us hooked up around 1968 after part of the back yard started to get wet and mushy. When we we kids many neighbors ran their washers water out to the back yard or even to the gutter at the street to avoid overloading thier septic tank system.

 

A partner and I bought a house in W Va. 30+ years ago that I still have and my partner Smittys house also has well and a STS and overall I love not having a water and sewer bill. Year after year we save $500-1000 not having a water and sewer bill.

 

In W Va. I have had one well pump replacement since 1965 and that was only around $2500.00, and Smitty has had no problems or expenses in 25 years now.

 

I really like having these systems as part my existence at our homes, I feel a little more that we are living off the land we own knowing our waste is going back to the earth and trees that surround our homes.

 

One of the things that I feel is good for a STS proper functioning is to minimize excessive amounts of water entering the system. In both homes top loading washers and non low flush toilets are gone.

 

From reading about STSs it is important to get enough human and other organic waste in to the STS to keep it healthy, for this reason both homes have garbage disposers, and we use them a lot. In the W.Va house I have canned many bushels of tomatoes, green beans etc and put all the waste right down the disposer. I do of coarse avoid putting any large amounts of fats down the drain and other stuff that is edible I put out for the wild animals to eat.

 

I have been told by several sources that one of the best things you can do if you have a STS is to have a garbage disposer.