Bosch or Miele dishwasher

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hey guys,

Looking for a new dishwasher for a family member to replace their 4yr old Midea made one. It has to be fully integrated and a ‘fixed door’ version - so the TOL Haier is a no go :(

I have a Bosch myself and have used many versions and know they clean well and are well built, but ive felt the Miele versions in store and the racks feel SO much smoother!

I was looking at the Bosch:
SMV6ZCX10G £749 40db serie 6
SMD8YCX03G £999 44db?? Serie 8

Is the price difference worth it for a serie 8? I’ve heard they come with the intensive zone on top/bottom rack? But a 4db louder dishwasher for 25% more is crazy to me. I’d want one with zeolite drying which both do. I’m not sure if the equivalent Neff/Siemens models may be a better buy but expect them to be more expensive (although the buttons feel much better)

Then the miele
G 7655 SCVi £999 (outlet, usually 2k) 42db
G 7650 SCVi £939 (outlet, usually 1.8k) 42db

Are Miele dishwashers reliable? I’ve never had one or know anyone with enough experience, I’ve had no problems with my W1/T1 for the last few years. I know they would only have a 2yr warranty rather than Bosch’s 5yr. I like that there’s an extra clean option (but Bosch also has this with turbidity sensing adjustment). Is there much difference between these models vs the lower end ones which you can pick up for around £600?

Then I also saw the fisher & Paykel Series 7 DW60U4HI2 for £579 42db with 5yr warranty. I’ve also had 0 problems with the series 9 washer & dryer I have. Only issue is I have no way of seeing the F&P in person before purchase, although I’m sure it’ll be the same as a haier. I would prefer the series 9 but that’s tall tub and sliding door.

Any recommendations? The quieter running it is the better
 
So, that's a tough one.
If the Mieles weren't as cheap as they are, I would just recommend the BSH DWs. But for half price, the Mieles are certainly an option.


For the Mieles:
They are somewhat more reliable than the BSHs - but not by a ton I would say.
The G7000 design is only 6 years old or so - so not quite as known as the BSH Zeolite design, which has been on sale with limited changes for over 15 years.
But if something on the Miele would go wrong, based on previous designs, it would be the pressure switch or at some point the inverter on the pump. And that's usually after 10+ years.

They feel VERY high quality. Again: Nobody has a DW door as high quality yet almost weightless.
They run pretty quiet and have a more "pleasant" noise profile than the BSH DWs. Main difference is the Zeolite fan that has a certain tone to it that many find irritating, especially with the ultra quiet machines.

But: The G7000 is pretty slow on most cycles. Auto cycle basically always takes 2:30h with warm water connection.
And drying is decent at best in my opinion.
Now, both models you stated have AutoOpen drying. Leaving the dishes over night gives you near perfect drying - but that's not as good as Zeolite drying.



On any BSH machine, be it the 2 models or something similar:

These machines will outperform the Mieles. On cleaning it's almost a draw (that mainly comes down to your specific situation - some on here love the G7000 design results, some hate them - and again the same for the BSH designs).
But drying: There is no thing like Zeolite drying. Hot, dry dishes with no steam cloud the second the DW is done - and all that with general ~10% savings in every cycle compared to the models without it. It's really something hard to believe until you have used it.

Now, why is the TOL louder that the MOL machine?
The MOL is B, the upper one A class energy efficiency.
The weird way that works is a specific insulation on the metal tub that reduces the heat loss during wash. That allows the DW to heat less during the Eco cycle and get the same cleaning results. But, that reduces the possibilities for noise isolation. So, you'll see ALL BSH A-class machines are 43db or louder.
The savings are minor in the other cycles - so the use for that is questionable.
Buuuut as I said further up, the "noisiest" thing on all Zeolite DWs is the Zeolite fan. It's not loud. It's just a very distinct and consistent sound. A friend of mine who has more musical talent called it a sustained E note. It runs something like 10-20min at the beginning of each cycle, and something between 10-40min during drying.

What the more TOL version has is automatic door opening. That's even better at drying - you get the trifecta of Zeolite, the heat exchanger and AutoOpen.
But, it has the Sensor buttons. They look more high end and feel more high end. On the semi integrated one I used in a flat share years ago they worked great, on my mums fully integrated one they are very mediocre.

Their reliability comes down the pump really.
There were a few years where the Zeolite system was a bigger failure point. They since changed it back to a different heater design and failures are less likely.
But the pumps fail typically after something like 8-12 years. The pump is cheap (especially compared to the Miele) but it's somewhat of a task to change.



If it was me, and the people they use it aren't appliance interested like us here, I would definitely get the TOL Bosch.

If they are the typical run DW before bed or while heading out to work people, the Miele will feel very high quality and probably not disappoint in performance.

But the Series 6 DW is a better deal still in my opinion. It's cheaper, drying is impressive, it's quiet and still feels pretty well built.
 
At those prices? Miele all the way. They’re known to be more reliable and given where you are, parts are probably more economical. Here in the US, they’re much more expensive so you better hope they remain reliable.
 
I’d personally go for the G7655SCVi from the outlet with the extra height interior of your units will accommodate for it.

We have a G7130SC which is just over a year old now, which replaced a 2022 Siemens IQ700 so feel like I can compare both quite well.

First things first, my experience/comparison isn’t usual in that the Siemens IQ700 had issues from day 1. It was delivered with a defective salt valve (which was so loud you could hear it through the house), had to be almost rebuilt by the engineer when a couple months old because they couldn’t trace the noise, and also never cleaned properly (despite functioning as it should) - and what’s more the zeolite drying would just bake all the dirt back onto the dishes. After a two year back and forth battle with Siemens & our retailer, our retailer eventually agreed to stop the infinite repair loop and to refund us 2.5 years down the line. In fairness I’d say this is no reflection really on BSH dishwashers as a whole - I believe it was a lemon that we had, and relatives and friends have BSH who are generally happy, but it’s put us off for a while.

What I didn’t like about the Siemens from a design perspective was that there wasn’t any decent form of quick cycle - the quickest hot wash was around 90 mins or more if you had auto open selected (1:50 if I remember right). I didn’t like the racking much either, but that’s more personal as I’ve been used to Miele racking for almost 20 years previous. I also find generally with BSH dishwashers they don’t clean well in the corners of racks, and because the cutlery tray only had a sprinkler rather than a spray arm you can’t just load anything anywhere. This isn’t too much of an issue provided you bear this in mind when loading.

We went back to a Miele dishwasher as a leap of faith, knowing the G7000 series aren’t as well built as the previous G6000 series I had, and also because mums G4940SC, whilst great at washing is hideous at drying. However it was the same price as the Siemens was, offered a similar feature set, and not wanting to go with BSH again it was the only real option we had for a quality dishwasher. And I’m glad we took the plunge - it was almost like going back home.

The Miele dishwasher has a better range of cycles in my opinion. They all clean really well, and you’ve got everything from a decent quick cycle in 55 mins to a 3ish hour intensive wash, more if you add options. I generally use the Auto cycle overnight, which only uses around 1kWH and 9-10l with extra dry enabled, and it will average 3 hours - an hour less if you select the Quick option. If I need a quicker turnaround, Powerwash is great at 1:20 - 60°C wash and full rinses and drying in that time, and that hasn’t turned out anything dirty yet, even baked on dishes such as macaroni cheese. Quick Powerwash (selecting Powerwash+Quick, similar to the W1s) will still clean exceptionally well in less than an hour, but only has a 25 minute wash time so anything such as egg and porridge might be a challenge. Both Powerwash and QPW use higher pressure and more water in the wash (4l versus 3l) to be able to deliver the results comparable to the Auto programme in a shorter time. I also generally find on Miele the Auto/Powerwash cycles will clean almost anything, and you rarely need to use Intensive. The only time Intensive really gets used is when my partner has done some Asian cooking, or if I’ve a particularly tough roasting dish from a Sunday and just want the extra insurance for it to come clean rather than out of necessity.

I find that both the IQ700 and Miele barely trigger a prewash on Auto - but they tend to add interim rinses instead which gives the same effect as washing any bits and residues away on the Miele.

I also really like the Extra Clean option which forces a prewash and an extra rinse on all cycles, and a higher wash temperature on Auto. I don’t use it often, but I find it useful when washing the drip tray and interiors of our bean to cup coffee machine, or a tomato based dish where I don’t want tomato sauce stains on a longer wash period. It’s also good if you want an extra prewash but not necessarily longer cycle - with Powerwash it’s around 1:35-1:40 with extra clean enabled, and around 1:10-1:15 with QPW.

I personally much prefer the racks of the Miele. The bottom basket especially with the open concept at the back is much easier to load and adaptable - and you can load anything anywhere without really thinking about it, whereas with BSH over the years I find you have to stack things against each other more. Also because of the spray arm at the top, you can load anything anywhere in the cutlery tray - even corners, and it will get clean.

Drying isn’t much of an issue or concern for me - auto open triggers about 10 mins on average before the cycle ends so most things are flash dried by the time the cycle is complete. Plastics are generally dry but you might find a bit of water left on the seams of lids or underside or cups - but I found that even with Siemens Zeolith drying anyway. On the Siemens with auto open selected it added around 20-25 minutes onto an already long cycle, whereas this doesn’t make any difference in the cycle time with the Miele. I find with the extra dry option enabled on the Miele (which triggers a 70° final rinse), results are similar to Zeolith, and better than standard condensation drying on my grandparents’ entry level Bosch slimline.

As a side note, as mentioned before my parents have a Miele G4940SC, an entry model from 2018 without auto open and that is abysmal at drying, the auto open models are much better. In fact I believe all Miele dishwashers in the UK portfolio have auto open now, so drying should be good across the board.

In general I find the Miele more economical to run and is less water hungry in general. Most cycles average 0.9-1.1kWH and around the 9-10l mark with 3-4 water changes. The intensive cycle with Intense zone and Extra clean selected uses around 1.5kWh and 13l - that’s with 5 water changes.

Quietness wise, even though our IQ700 was the same dB rating the Miele is quieter to my ear. It may not have a silent drain pump but it’s not intrusive at all, the wash action is a lot softer (it’s only more noticeable when using high pressure on QPW for example, and even then it’s still quieter than a fridge), and the drying fan is also a lot quieter. BSH dishwashers I’ve noticed always have a “slurping” noise from the wash action, not unpleasant or loud but more noticeable.

I have also found in general with Miele dishwasher over the years is that they generally are more economical with salt, and you very rarely have to clean the filter as they largely keep themselves clean. I find with BSH dishwashers personally filter cleaning is a monthly job.

One thing I don’t like about the Miele and find rather unnecessary is the autodos with the Powerdisk. You are locked into using the Powerdisk detergent which IMO is overpriced especially as it’s only average at best detergent. Even the Fairy platinum pods we use seem extremely good value per wash in comparison. Although some in the depths of the internet have modded Powerdisk pods with their own powder, this and any issues arising from doing so voids the Miele warranty so isn’t worth the risk.

Reliability wise - I’m not sure if one is better than the other, it’s more personal preference and taste as to which dishwasher you like and what works for you best. I do think the haptic experience is generally better on Mieles (the racks glide better and the doors open and close more smoothly), even though I do think there is a noticeable quality difference beteeen the G7000s and my previous G6000 series. But the mid-upper end BSH machines with the stainless steel base are still well made too.

I hope this gives you a good insight and sorry for rambling on - just wanted to give my own personal experience from using and having both brands quite extensively through the years. I think both are good options, I am probably biased somewhat as I personally prefer the Miele dishwashers (possibly because I’ve been used to them for 20 years now between my parents and I), but that’s not to say BSH is a bad option at all - I think it all depends on what you can get that offers best value for you (money and features wise) at the time.

Jon
 
Miele appears to have done a lot of modification of programming. My G7100SCi runs a prewash basically ALL the time on Auto - but that one doesn't have WiFi connectivity, so programming is as it was delivered close to 6 years ago.

My mums MOL Siemens basically never runs a prerinse on Auto.
But with both you can adapt around that.


BSH does have a 1h wash available through the app - that should run 65C main wash and rinse, similar to Mieles QPW.
Both BSH machines you mentioned should have connectivity.


Salt usage is quite low on the Miele.
I have to fill the container maybe every 70 cycles, about once a year for me.
I do use a decent bit of rinse aid though, but that's not really an issue.

The newest BSH DWs should have a spray arm as the third level spray on some models - but I don't think either one you mentioned does yet.
 
Had a look at the Neff equivalent of the serie 6 Bosch, nice that it has open door assist! (Only £50 more) However no spray arm for the 3rd rack which really doesn’t seem like that’ll work out. The Miele racks did feel 1000% more smooth too. The family is the type to chuck anything anywhere inside a dishwasher so I don’t think Bosch will be best, especially the 3rd level - the open door assist is really tempting though
 
Personally I think at £999 the G7865 is a steal for what it is, and if your family isn’t great at dishwasher Tetris (same as mine) then the Miele is probably more forgiving. Even my partner can load the Miele without major difficulty, it’s the first one we’ve had where he doesn’t complain 😂.

Miele do knock 2 open which is a similar vain to open assist, but I think that’s only on the TOL model now (and in my opinion a bit gimmicky). I think the BSH one is a bit better with a slight push, but I generally leave the dishwasher slightly ajar anyway. That’s another difference now it comes to mind - you can’t leave the BSH doors ajar if they have auto open, the open ajar position without being fully closed is about 5cm which is a bit of a hinderance, whereas you can leave the Miele door slightly ajar to the point it’s almost closed.

Henrik,

Miele definitely have tweaked the programming for the better I think - the comfort wash cycles are good if that is your type of thing but I never really have a need for them when the Auto or Powerwash cycles cover most bases. My old G6310SC and mums G4940SC very rarely skip the prewash on auto, but they only did one interim rinse after the wash.

Our IQ700 dishwasher only had an hour programme on the app cycles which was effectively the half hour 45° (I think) quick wash with a drying cycle added on. Of course it has been a while since we had that dishwasher so good if they have added at least the app capability to do the 1h 65° wash as that was one cycle I really wish it had.

Our water is 12°dH, a box of salt lasts around a year for us. I have rinse aid set to 3ml off the top of my head. Either way it is economical with both.

I’m not sure if the top spray arm models have made it here yet, not last time I looked at them anyway which admittedly was a few months ago.

Jon
 
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