Bosch weighs offer for appliance maker Whirlpool

[launderess]

Well that's that....

Bosch is no longer considering going after WP... for now anyway.

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/n...ars-to-drop-bid-to-acquire-whirlpool-for-now/

Bosch is acquiring air conditioning assets of Johnston Controls however, so they aren't exactly standing still.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/johnson-controls-sell-heating-ventilation-assets-bosch-67-bln-deal-2024-07-23/

 

[combo52]

Bosch not pursuing purchase of whirlpool

That certainly good news, I couldn’t imagine if whirlpool appliances became as cheaply made as Bosch appliances. And difficult to work on and repair their appliances are much more in the throwaway realm much like Volkswagen and other European cars.

Bosch has its own market. They can continue doing what they’re doing.

John

 

[kalanikaau1]

Frigidaire/Electrolux

Several years back, when Sears was still in business I bought a new Kenmore all fridge unit manufactured by Frigidaire, after just 3 months of ownership the unit developed a leak in the sealed refrigerant system, it was repaired under Sear's warranty.

A month after that the compressor failed internally while I was out of town, needless to say all of the fridges contents had spoiled into a smelly mess, Sears reimbursed my a whopping $100 for $400 worth of actual spoilage. The appliance was deemed irreparable because the sealed system was contaminated beyond repair because of the compressor's failure.

A replacement fridge was delivered a few days after,it proved to be worst than the original in reliability, with multiple failures within a years time!

Subsequently, a third unit was delivered a month after, causing me great inconvenience and adding to my frustration with Frigidaire appliances.
Believe it or not the third one turned out to be a repeat of the first with the exact same failures.

At this point I was so disgusted with Frigidaire that I negotiated with Sears to give me a new top mount Kenmore (Whirlpool) instead of another POS Frigidaire. The Whirlpool has proven to be reliable, as most top mount fridges generally are.

This is why you'll never see an Electrolux product in any shape or form in my home, moving forward, you could not GIVE me one of their woeful appliances!

 

[gelaundry4ever]

Frigidaire!

I can't stand Frigidaire! I had a dishwasher that lasted a year! I don't trust any of them! This was absolutely stupid! All dishwashers and appliances aren't created equal! That was so stupid of me!

 

[michaelz08]

The competition between Bosch and WP is great

I was horrified when I'd read this months ago. I'm personally a fan of both brands, but they produce distinctly different products with different pros/cons. And that competition is good, it pushes both to develop and compete in the appliance market here.

WP has definitely been noticing the loss of DW share to Bosch in their higher end market: their recently released line of DWs have auto-open doors, inline water heaters, flush-mounting, european style construction that contains the insulation in the side panels, and bosch-style third racks. Even time-projection on the floor in top models. Basically Bosch 500 features but at WP prices and serviceability.

With WP being the last major US appliance corp not owned/controlled by a foreign entity, I'd hate to see them fall too. I don't think this would result in better products at all.

 

[launderess]

Really don't see WP being bought by Bosch or anyone else. They're just too large and at this point important to US economy for current or any DOJ to give green light to such a thing.

WP does have issues it needs to address and by some accounts is trying to sort themselves out.

First and foremost WP needs to innovate in ways Bosch, Miele and various Asian manufactures have done. This it is doing.... https://www.foodandwine.com/whirlpool-slimtech-refrigerators-8707456

 

[gelaundry4ever]

whirlpool

I'd hate to see Whirlpool go down the tubes further.

 

[michaelz08]

That's very cool, thanks for sharing that article! You're right, that's exactly the sort of practical innovation that they should be doing given their size. It's not flashy but it's an influential change.

To be fair, the standard for innovation is fairly low in the home appliance market. Apart from aesthetics, lots of our appliances operate very similarly to how they did almost 20 years ago (outside of things like Induction cooktops). I wouldn't call Miele an real innovator- lots of their big new features like AutoDos are conveniences at best, and if we're honest it's just a way for them to try and sell you things post-purchase (those Powerdisk pods are extremely expensive). Outside of dishwashers, I haven't been very fond of their other appliances from my interactions with them.

 

[launderess]

IMHO WP is like a phyton who has swallowed too large a meal, they've gone and bought Maytag already adding to numerous brands already owned, now have to sort out how to position what and where.

WP does seem intent on making Maytag a player in OPL/commercial laundry. Who know what will become of KitchenAid since it was kicked to sidelines in favour of Maytag as WP's prestige domestic laundry brand.

Then there's JennAir and rest of what WP has gobbled up over years both USA and foreign brands.

 

[logixx]

Michealz08

From the features you're describing, it sounds like Whirlpool is essentially selling their European design on the US market.

 

[henene4]

I actually think it's a bit the other way around.

The new US DW line came first and the EU just got them slightly adapted as "Maxi Space" models (or whatever they're called).

It's a lot weirder that Whirlpool and Arcelik actually kind of fused their operations in this continent.
When I access the Whirlpool online store through my employers shopping discount portal it actually says Beko & Whirlpool there now.

 

[pierreandreply4]

what will this mean for brands like maytag and kitchenaid

what will this mean for brands like maytag and kitchenaid made by whirlpool?

the reason i am asking this question not at that point yet but could be soon will need to replace refrigirator that was bough in 2006 more than 18 years old and built in oven for the fridge it must be a spesific size for the fridge hole

https://www.maytag.ca/fr_ca/kitchen...ith-water-dispenser-22-cu.-ft.mrff5033pz.html

and base on mesurment the maytag fridge would fit perfectly or just

and as for built in oven would go with kitchenaid or maytag with air fryer included with oven

https://www.kitchenaid.ca/en_ca/maj...e-wall-oven-with-air-fry-mode.koes530pss.html

 

[michaelz08]

I think the Euro versions were on the market first. Browsing their UK site, they have many models available that look just like the recently released ones here. With main differences being rack design and lack of PowerScour.

I understand the product segmentation (in the kitchen realm) between Aman, Maytag, WP, and KA, it’s only JennAir that seems lost. They sell some actual high end products, but plenty of stuff that’s mostly rebranded KA items with near-zero functional differences. And as far as dishwashers go, they’re basically a rip off. I don’t think the current WP dishwashers are bad units, but they’re asking Miele money for the JA ones. They do have almost too many brands, and that’s before considering their owned defunct brand names.

@pierreandreply4 I don’t think the Arçelik cooperation in Europe will affect much in NA. And those air fryer functions are most likely just presets for the convection oven, I’ve air fried using their air fry oven tray in my 2007 Wolf oven many times. I wouldn’t run after that feature specifically.

 

[appnut]

Michael, please provide me with a link to the new Bosch dishwashers. I've not been able to find any new models.

 

[combo52]

Whirlpool built dishwashers

Hi Michael, glad to have another dishwasher enthusiast on the site, regarding some of the thoughts you had in your reply number 51, Jenair is whirlpools premium builder line. It’s designed for high-end kitchens and it’s only sold through kitchen distributors it’s largely the same as KitchenAid, of course, but it does have a few unique features. I’m not an expert on marketing, but I think they’re smart the way they’re doing it.

The new whirlpool dishwasher that’s being sourced from Europe I believe really won’t offer much advantage over what they’re making here except that hopefully it’ll be smaller like Bosch dishwashers and will be able to use it to replace Bosch dishwashers, although it’s a totally different design machine so I don’t think it’ll have the same service ability as US built whirlpool dishwashers so it’s probably better if you’re stuck with the smaller space just to buy another Bosch.

Two weeks ago I was working for another one of our customers who absolutely hates their Bosch dishwasher, but it was built into the kitchen 12 years ago and they didn’t Put a dishwasher in so we’re probably gonna have to put another Bosch in.

I have another customer who’s on her third Bosch dishwasher for the same reason also because it had a custom panel on it and it would be so expensive to try to match the kitchen, but they would also like to have a USdishwasher after all the problems they’ve had with the Bosch machines They usually do well for a half dozen years or so and then Nobody seems to want to fix them. They just say buy another one.

It’s no secret that in the past 20 years whirlpool has had more than their share problems with dishwashers as has Frigidaire and general electric, and this is given Bosch a good road into the dishwasher market in the US, I do think the whirlpool dishwashers of the last four years or so have really been great machines. We’re seeing very few problems with them, they’re the only dishwasher that have a really strong pump in them and don’t have a messy filter that you have to clean all the time in their models. At least the cheap ones do still have a removable filter like a Bosch etc.

Get in touch sometime Michael if you like I even have a couple vintage induction cooktops that I need to find a home for don’t know if you’re looking for vintage or new.

John

 

[gelaundry4ever]

alternating wash action

So what do you think of the alternating wash action?

 

[michaelz08]

@appnut, you might be misunderstanding. It’s new WP models that are more like Boschs (euro) than traditional WP designs.

@combo52, thank you for the welcome. Dishwashers are a bit of a niche area to be so interested in but I’m glad there’s a site for it!

And, for the JA dishwashers about the only unique feature is their “steam finish” and China cycle, the former I’ve been unable to understand how/whats going onto enable it. I’ve checked schematics for the JA units and couldn’t see obvious differences. Otherwise they use KA motors, KA sound insulation, KA gliding racks, with WP triple filtratio (the clean water system is apparently too noisy), and the WP/Maytag style third racks for cups. Unless you count the black racks or knife holder, the extra purchase price really doesn’t go anywhere. For all their other product lines, they have the “rebranded kitchenaid” line and the “actual high end” line, I.e their Slide-In ranges and their pro-style ranges. I think it’s a shame they don’t do the same with their dishwashers and make them truly different, especially at a $2.2K MSRP

At the same time, I understand it can be difficult to have two “premium” brands of dishwashers as “premium” dishwashers don’t run all that more expensive than normal models. It’s not like ranges, where you can spend $5K or $1K. The realistic range for a DW goes up to 2.5K for a good Miele.

I’m personally a fan of WP products and I like the JA style on their current items. So my disdain for where they fall short for their price is because I know they have the R&D to make them more differentiated.

 

[appnut]

Michael, This thread is leading me to believe there are new WP models. I do not see any new WP model numbers on their web site nor am I seeing anything different in retail outlets online and indicating there are new models. All models number look the same. Example is the WP WDT970

Otherwise, provide me with speecific models that have new variations I'm not relizing because they all look what's been out ever since WP released their new models that included similar 3rd racks with the KitchenAid Free-Flex design. Such as the WDT970

 

[gelaundry4ever]

wash system

As far as the wash system is concerned, it seems like Whirlpool is currently using their global wash system instead of the clean water wash system on their own models.

 

[michaelz08]

@combo52 forgot to address some other points, but had to wait 30 min to add an addendum.

The benefits of the euro-style models are their in-line water heaters and auto-open doors for drying (the only domestic brand I’ve seen do the opening door so far). The ability to put plastic on the bottom rack with no fear of damage is great, and the door open drying is one of my favorite things about my current Miele. I almost exclusively run washes overnight and this makes sure everything is dry.

They are also shallower, by about 2” I believe. They are marketing them as “flush to cabinet”, though it’s just because I suppose traditionally American washers tended to stick out more? Width should still be the same. Are you talking about 18” washers? If so, seems like Bosch is the only premium maker of those here since they’re so uncommon.

For my friend, we just picked up an open-box WDT750SAKZ. At less than $500 I’m not sure there’s a better value for the money, and it’s so simple that repairs if they are needed should be cheap and easy for me to do for him. It is filter based, but in my experience the filter based whirlpools since the mid 2010s (I had a 2015 model for many years) are very good about self cleaning. I rarely checked it- maybe twice a year- and it always had very little gunk. And I scrape, but do not pre rinse. My current Miele never has a spec on the filter at all. I do sort of regret not pushing him to get the KA version of that unit, the KDTE204KPS, as it has a stronger and variable speed wash motor that probably would’ve been worth the small upcharge for.

A SS tub Bosch would have cost so much more and I have checked them out in stores, their racks/doors/handles/etc aren’t noticeably more premium or anything. I’m sure their motors and pumps are better, but as you alluded to- repairs are much harder and more costly.

And thank you! I don’t have the space or need for any extra appliances at the moment (I’m in a condo), but if you have any literature or info on them it’s the sort of thing I’d love to read about. I always have a field day reading old appliance catalogues and manuals.

@gelaundry4ever I have no qualms with alternating wash arms. It seems like a cost effective way to ensure proper water pressure at different wash levels while being able to use cheaper/smaller pumps. Or, a good way to provided boosted pressure when needed and normal pressure to all arms simultaneously at other times (in theory) with one good pump. If it enables less water usage because less needs to be filled into the sump, I’m even happier as I appreciate efficiency and lower bills too.