Bubble Bandit: Dishwasher, Laundry Detergent, All-Fabric Bleach

[DADoES]

 
DishDrawers can be run on a cold connection (they always heat to specific main wash and final rinse temps, which vary depending on the selected cycle) ... but the US installation instructions advise a hot connection.  I don't recall that softener-equipped models say otherwise.

 

[eronie]

I've  never seen a softner equipped dishwasher in the us.

Hooked up to cold fill on 120

volts a 3 hour cycle would take all day.

Euro electric  must be way cheeper than hours but it is 220 volt. Almost all of their appliances washer dishwasher are cold fill.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Dishwashers in Europe can normally be connected to either cold or hot water, with a maximum incoming temperature of 60 or 70 °C often specified (140 or 160 °F).  The water softener can be regenerated with hot or cold water.  Most are connected to cold water.  Some specify they should be connected to cold water only.

 

 

Most in the USA say that they should be connected to hot water, including the Kitchenaid models with built-in water softeners, usually with a recommended incoming temp of 50 °C (120 °F).  Some older ones recommended higher temps such as 60 °C (140 °F) or more.  Some can still work fine on cold water, depending on the cycle and options chosen.  Others will not work as well and some will not heat the water at all on certain cycles.

 

[DADoES]

3 hr cycle all day

 
No so much.

I checked a few mins ago with a 5-gallon bucket I have marked in gallons.  Water heater at 50°C (122°F), took ~2-1/3 gals to get a warm flow at the faucet due to plumbing distance from the heater.  3 gals for nicely hot.

I usually have the water heater at 103°F (for showering) so that's moderately warm even if flushing the supply (unless I raise it temporarily for the dishwasher, which usually I don't).

DD takes 0.8 gals per fill, so that's ~4 fills of continuous-running water to flush the supply line if I don't do it first.  More counting dwell-time between fills.

It raises the temp a little faster than 1°F per minute, maybe 1.3°F.

Longest cycle is estimated 132 mins, which includes ~28 mins dry time.  True, that's less than 3 to 4 hours on some intense cycles nowadays, but it has never run anywhere near all day, LOL.

Anywho, IMO, the 3- and 4-hr cycles nowadays aren't for water heating but to give enzyme detergents a LONG time to work, coupled with lower spray pressures from reduced water volume and smaller pumps.

 

[logixx]

Euro electric must be way cheeper than hours

According to Google the average price per kWh in

- the US is 13 Cents
- in Europe is 23 Cents
- in Germany is 34 Cents

 

[appnut]

The single KitchenAid model that had water softener came out about a year or two before their Clean Water Wash system initial model--2012-2013.  It was pulled about a year or two later.  

 

[circlew]

If it's a built-in dishwasher that were to have a heater, there's no reason it couldn't be connected to 240 volts. As long as an appliance or other equipment operates solely at either 120 or 240 (or 208) volts, only two wires plus equipment grounding conductor are required. It's only things such as a range or dryer that use 120/240 that require 3 wires plus equipment ground. The extra expense would be minimal - a double pole breaker instead of single pole. Code also requires the white wire be re-identified as a non-grounded conductor, such as with colored tape.

 

 

[abcomatic]

I have used BB for years and love it. Always clean dishe and I also us BB for the laundry. Every thing comes out just fine. Gary

 

[ozzie908]

According the instructions for my Miele dishwasher

You can connect it to the hot water if its available and cheaply heated IE by solar panels or some other method of creating cheap hot water, It cannot be above 60c and it has a regeneration unit !

No point using hot water here as the boiler is too far from the sink unless you purged the line it would be a waste of time and energy, Most houses these days do not have a hot water tank as they take up room are costly to heat especially electrically so its more convenient to just use the cold supply same for the washer. However I do have a US model whirlpool washing machine that is connected to the hot water as its in the same room as the boiler and so it gets the hot water before its finished filling it takes a good 30 minutes off the cycle as it gets to temp quicker I used to have it on cold only but may as well utilise the boiler it doesn't do anything in the warmer weather

Austin

 

[rolls_rapide]

Hot tap water

I was experimenting with my Panasonic (Gorenje) washing machine, on the supposed 50 minute 'Quick Wash' cycle. A few days ago, with cold tap water, for a smallish cottons load at 40°C, it got up to the heady heights of... 27°C. I wasn't amused.

Today, I decided to run another small load, on the same programme... but this time I decided to fill the machine to the bottom rim of the drum, with - don't laugh - saucepans of hot tap water at about 55°C, directly tipped into the drum. I added powder directly to the hot water in the drum, swished it about for a few seconds, added the laundry, set the programme temperature to 60°C, and lo and behold - a temperature of 64°C was achieved. Queer old difference.

 

[askolover]

I don't know how it works but Miele USA has a water softener dishwasher with hot fill

https://www.mieleusa.com/e/pre-finished-full-size-dishwasher-g-6625-scu-am-clean-touch-steel-10410100-p

 

[appnut]

Bosch also has a couple of models in the U.S. with hot fill too.  

 

[frigilux]

Bubble Bandit Laundry Detergent and All-Fabric Bleach Booster Update:

Have used BB detergent with and without the addition of a scoop of all-fabric bleach on about 10 loads. Here's what I've found, using a 2017 Speed Queen top-loader, very soft water, hot water temp at the tap around 140-145 degrees.

1. BB detergent cleans loads without a lot of stains well. Adding the all-fabric bleach definitely improves stain removal performance.

2. BB + all-fabric bleach booster cleans about as well as Tide Heavy Duty 10X and Persil Proclean + Stain Fighter do on their own.

3. The best stain removal results on heavily-soiled kitchen whites are still achieved with a top-shelf detergent and liquid chlorine bleach (I use original Clorox). All stains always completely removed.

Will I order Bubble Bandit products online again? Probably not--but not because they're ineffective products. It's just that the addition of phosphates doesn't seem to make much difference in very soft water, and I can find products that work just as well or better on the shelf at my grocery store.

Those with hard water may find some benefit, but I honestly didn't notice a big drop in performance from Persil + Stain Fighter or Tide HD 10X when my water was hard for the better part of a week. I was even impressed with the aforementioned versions of Tide and Persil when I washed in hard, cold water for a few days (to conserve the soft water that was still in the water heater tank). Of course, neither performed as well as when using hot water, but they did better than I expected them to. Did not try BB products in cold water.

Also, take into account that the Speed Queen's maximum wash time is about 15-16 minutes. Results may be noticeably better in the highly-concentrated environs of an HE front-loader coupled with wash periods that can be up to three times longer.
[this post was last edited: 5/30/2020-08:45]

 

[bajaespuma]

Soft Water is the key

I have lived and laundered in many different places with different water hardnesses; after 50 years of dishwashing and laundering I've concluded that the most important benefit to all of this is naturally soft water--no product beats it. I've been using some of the BB products and I can't honestly report that I see any improvement for the expense, maybe a little better rinsing in the laundry. If I still lived in Dutchess County NY, I might have more to talk about. The hardest water I've ever experienced was in Strasbourg France; there were many phosphate booster products that one HAD to use in the clothes washer and the dishwasher just to keep the machines from caking up with calculus.