Burner problems, Frigidaire Flair RCIB-645

[mudhouse]

Hello all,
New member here. We are seeking help to keep our Frigidaire Flair, original to our house. It's a model RCIB-645, blue Flair badge, I think 1960 (?) My family has been cooking on it for the last 27 of its 54 years.

(I joined the Google Flair discussion group, but I'm having a hard time getting posts to show up there; not sure why...so I wandered over here.)

As we plan a gentle update of our kitchen, it's time to consider the Flair. We love some aspects of it, but need to deal with the lack of ventilation, and some problems with the two front burners, which have not worked right for years. I'm focusing on the burner problem in this thread.

I've read about the problems with the Speed Heat and Heat Minder burners. Both front elements heat up, but they have one speed: high. My husband (a valiant cook) is now skilled at moving the pan off the burner, since we can't turn down the heat; but after ten years of this, I'd really like knobs that work.

I have polished the Heat Minder sensor, as I understand that needs to be in contact with the bottom of the pan, but that doesn't seem to help. I'm guessing both front burners will need new infinite speed switches...and possibly, new burner elements?

We are fairly handy, but not with appliances. Is the first step to try to find an appliance repair person who can tell if these switches have already been changed out, over the years? My (fuzzy) understanding is, this might determine what parts I need to hunt down, on eBay or elsewhere.

Also, does anyone know of a Flair repairman in the southern NM area (or El Paso, TX?) Even if I can figure out what parts to buy, someone will need to install them for us, as it's above our pay grade to try it ourselves.

Any help is appreciated.
Sheri

 

[alr2903]

Just a suggestion try Frigidaire repair.  It might help to search the yellow pages in the old school phone book, looking for a dealer  "in business since 19xx.  My Aunt successfully had a  speed heat changed to a regular infinite heat control switch  IIRC in the 1990's.The  right front is the "heat minder"  thermostatic controlled burner her thermo element continued to work until her move to assisted living last year.  Full disclosure: she was an occasional cook.  She also told me Frigidaire East would work on the flair in her case this was St. Louis.  Frigidaire west in Illinois would not  come out for a look.  A few phone calls to older service shops might turn out to be lucky. I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck.  They are very nice well made vintage stoves.

 

[mudhouse]

alr2903, I sure wish the Heat Minder thermostat still worked in our range. I've seen a post on another forum from someone with a working Heat Minder, and they thought it was wonderful. Still, if we could just get ours to work like a regular burner, that would be fine.

Your suggestions about looking for repair help are good ones, and I will start that process asap. Thanks!

Our part of the country seems to be lagging a bit behind the rest, when it comes to appreciating things mid-century. So, I am expecting to have to hunt a bit for help. I kind of doubt there are many Flair owners around here, trying to keep them going.

On the up side, you would not believe what cool things we can find at local thrift stores and flea markets, for almost nothing. I've scored a Blenko glass table lamp, a Lane Acclaim table, Dansk teak peppermills, and more cool stuff for crazy low prices. Always a silver lining, I guess!

 

[kenmore71]

That model Flair was manufactured from 1960 through 1963 and was the top-of-the-line model.

Finding parts to restore the heat-minder and the speed-heat to their original condition is possible but will be a project. Every year the specialty parts that were used in those become more difficult to find. What is slightly unusual about your situation is that the speed-heat burner operates at all! Usually when these fail, they fail with a flash or a puff of smoke and then they are DEAD. You are one step ahead of the game in that both burner elements seem to work.

 

The easiest work-around solution would be to replace the heat-minder control with an infinite heat control. The control that was made for that purpose was made in one form or another for a long time.

 

Here is a list of various part numbers as they existed in 1978:

 

Heat Minder switch assembly for the early Flair ranges - 6563695 OR 6563752

 

Possible substitute infinite heat switch - 7521243 (used on ALL Flairs and freestanding ranges for the left rear large burner from 1960-1970) This later subbed to <span style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px;"><strong style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">5309957099 </strong></span>and appears to still be available!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5309957099-FRIGIDAIRE-STOVE-8-Surface-burner-infinite-control-switch-240-Volt-/301312165013?pt=US_Cooktops&hash=item46279ac495

 

Speed heat switch: 6599201 (1960-1964)

 

I don't have a source to find the part number for the substitute infinite heat switch for the speed-heat unit. There was one made because so many people had trouble with the speed-heat switches failing prematurely. That unit operated on 120 volts instead of 240 so the infinite heat control has a different rating for the internal cycling heater so that it works properly on 120 volts. 

 

The original part number subs to <span style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px;"><strong style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">5309957097</strong></span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-weight: normal;"> </span>which claims to be a 240 volt replacement infinite heat switch with the instructions on how to convert it for a speed-heat element. I take no responsibility for how that may or may not work out!

 

 

[philr]

Mark already said it all. Replacing the Heat Minder switch is fairly easy, just need to substitute it for a regular infinite switch. Just make sure that the model you select has the "HI" and "SIM" positions in the same locations but replacements are readily available. For the Speed Heat, first have a look at the burner and switch to know if they are still the original or if they already have been replaced. If the burner is still the 118V it should read something around 11 ohms when testing both terminals with an ohmmeter. If it's been replaced with a regular 236V burner, it will read something around 40 ohms. If the burner is still the original 118V unit, you have two choices, just replace the switch with the one that is designed to cycle on 118 volts or replace both the burner and the switch with a regular infinite switch and a regular 236 volts burner. If it's already been replaced with a 236 volts burner, then you just have to replace the infinite switch with one like for the rear 6" burner.

If the original speed heat switch is still there, you'll see that the wired are connected to the switch terminals with screws. The replacement switch won't have screws so you'll have to add connectors to the wires.

In both cases, ,you'll have to leave a wire unused with the new switch.

 

[mudhouse]

Kenmore71 and PhilR, thanks so much. That is very helpful, and meshes with my fuzzy understanding from reading older posts in a number of different forums. We need a bit more time to work on understanding a few things about these parts, and will probably be back with another specific question or two, after we research some of the part numbers you were kind enough to list for us. Many thanks.

We are clear that we want to do the easiest workarounds possible. We're just not up for the adventure of trying to restore the two front burners to their original condition. If we can just adjust the heat by turning knobs, we'll be tickled pink.

I understand the comment about making sure that the model switch/controller we buy has the same positions as marked on the knobs (HI, SIM, etc.) But I am not clear how to evaluate this, as I am peering at listings on eBay (some of which don't even have a photo of the part, only the part number.) Any advice?

Also, we're unclear about the logistics of working on this range, to replace the switches. I read elsewhere that some repair guys access the switches through the top of the range, but our range has cabinets above. Does that mean the only way is to remove all the dials, remove the control panel glass, and go in that way?

I downloaded the 1960 Tech Talk PDF about Frigidaire Flairs. That mentions there are four welded nuts on the bottom of the Flair. I think these are sometimes used to bolt the Flair into place. When we look in the wooden cabinet under our Flair, we see no bolts. So maybe it's just sitting in place (the wooden cabinets on top would prevent it from falling forward.) Maybe we should try sliding it forward, to access the top. But I think I read these weigh about 330 pounds...any thoughts?

 

[philr]

You'll need to turn off the power to the range from the circuit breaker or fuse panel, pull the range from the cabinets enough to remove the top cover and remove the top and glass... Not very complicated once the range is pulled from the cabinets! You first need to remove the aluminum trim above the control panel glass, then the top (all screws are at the front) and then all the knobs and the glass. Then, to remove the switches, you need to remove the dials from the shafts of the switches and there will be two screws holding each switch in place. Note the position of the wires at the back of the Heat Minder switch and reconnect them to the same terminal on the new switch (I assume your range still has the original Proctor switches). The infinite switch will have one less terminal, that's the one for the sensor which won't be needed. 

 

For the Speed Heat switch, it's a bit more complicated as connectors need to be added to the wires and you need to understand which wire goes where with the new replacement switch. I never had to replace the Speed Heat switch on my Flairs as Canadian Flairs don't have the Speed Heat (this feature was banned here the year before Flairs were introduced!). But I did re-install a Speed Heat burner in my 1959 Frigidaire range and I had to do the reverse operation on that range. My range was converted to a regular 236V burner and switch as it was often done in Canada, not with the 118V infinite switch that works with the original style Speed Heat burners. 

 

Also be careful not to break the dial glass when you remove and re-install it! I did replace the 4 infinite switches on my RCIB-645C because the previous owner had it repaired by a technician that installed 4 Robertshaw switches that worked in the opposite way of the original Proctor switches... 

 

[mudhouse]

Thank you Phil. We are carefully noting all your excellent details about replacing the switches. I'm sorry to know we need to remove the top cover of the range, and I admit we worry about handling that 40” piece of glass. (I can see this is not a good hobby for sissies.)

After closer inspection, pulling the range out will be tricky. It looks like they built the (1965, stick-built) upper cabinets around the range. The upper cabs touch the range top and the range is firmly wedged into place. Oh good.

We are increasingly convinced nobody has pulled this Flair out since 1965, when the house was built. So, it's most likely the Speed Heat switch and burner are original, and that might make it possible for us to buy the switches/burner and do the repair in one fell swoop. (This would be good if we determine we can’t do it ourselves, and have to pay a Flair repair guy to travel to us.)

So, some Robertshaw switches have the temp settings in the reverse order. As I look at switches online, I note that some have A,B,C,D on the front. Just guessing here; is this possibly an indication of the general order of the temp settings (Sim, Lo, Med, Hi)? I’m trying to figure out how you folks can tell which switches will match the order of the settings marked on our knob plates.

Or, is it just make your purchase, and hope for the best? Trial and error?

 

[jenn]

My speed heat burner light flickers..

I just purchased my first Frigidaire Flair Imperial.. my speed heat light flickers all the time. Everything else works awesome. The burners all work..the light goes out when i turn the burner on... Should I be worried about the flicker?

I can't believe how great this is.. i have a rotisserie, meat probe, griddle..the clock looks like it has a creepy second hand but keeps perfect time. i got it for a hundred bucks..its a heavy beast though..lol

 

[philr]

I'd be concerned about the switch. It might have stuck contacts which keep the voltage on one of the burner wires.

These pilot lights rarely flicker but if it has been staying on for so long, the light bulb might be worn (they are neon bulbs and that's what they do as they need to be replaced).

For regular use, the Speed Heat burner on such an old range might be something you want to eliminate. I have one at home and I avoid using the Speed Heat. These caused problems when the ranges were fairly new, now that the parts are NLA, you might want to replace the switch with a regular one (there's a replacement switch which is designed to replace the Speed Heat switch but it does away with the "Speed" feature).

My Speed Heat switch contacts have stuck once (leaving the pilot light on) on the range I use daily. I cleaned the contacts and it still works but I haven't been able to find a replacement for it since so I just avoid using it.

It's an interesting feature and if replacement burners and switches were easily available I wouldn't mind using it more and replacing parts as necessary but it's not the case! On a Flair range, it can also cause problems with the drawer safety switches that prevent the burners from operating when the burner drawer is closed.