California wild-fires.

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Palm Springs, California

My Dad lives in the Palm Springs area and he tells me the only thing they are dealing with there is smoke from the Santa Ana winds. Hopefully this firestorm will be contained and not move further inland.
 
Good Lord, it never once occurred to me we might have members, and loved ones of members, in that area!

Please heed any all warnings and err on the side of caution in bugging outta there. No home, worldly possession, or even vintage appliances (gulp) are worth your life or your safety.

Please remember the terrible lessons learned from the horrible images of the desperate individuals and families caught in the nightmarish wildfires in Greece this summer...

Remember the sad lessons we never learned from the New Orleans, and realize that incompetence transcends all economic and socioeconomic boundaries. You CANNOT count on anyone to rescue you, or even assist you.

If we have members or loved ones near the confines of this inferno, please take care, and be safe. You're all in my prayers today.
 
last evening

..is when it occurred to me and I even had fires in my sleep last night.

That is SO out of control - it's really scary.

I'm sure we all will keep everyone on the west coast in our prayers these days.

B
 
My BIL had to evacuate

He is south of Carlsbad and had to evacuate yesterday. He left work (he works in San Diego) at 10AM to get home and pack what he could in the car to be ready for the call to go. Well, they called and he had to go. Luckily he has friends in the SoCal area that he can go to as all the hotels are booked for hundreds of miles around.

It is very scary and I, too, had dreams about the fires last night.
 
Generally speaking, if members live in the flatlands away from any of the mountains and canyons they are probably out of harm's way, but all bets are off with this particular batch of fires. The biggest evacuation in California history is still underway. SoCal fires this time of year are a fact of life but these have been brutal. It's not like residents didn't anticipate this after one of the driest rainfall years on record in the southern part of the state but the scale is still beyond what anyone likely imagined. Weather conditions are much the same as during the disastrous Oakland hills fire that began on 10/20/91. I hope all AW members in Southern California are safe and sound.
 
Greetings from Dante's Inferno

We have rec'd a number of calls and emails asking about our safety so am sending this along.

Arlee and I are not in any imminent danger where we live, but we certainly are being affected. The air is smoggy; the traffic is terrible; and a heavy pall of fear and anxiety hovers over the entire Southern California area.

My closest brush with fire is the BBQ grill in the back yard where I am cooking up some barbequed chicken and turkey burgers. Just felt like a good day to do it.

One of my graphics clients lives in Malibu. She and her husband similarly have not been directly impacted in terms of fire, but they are home-bound due to all the road closures, and of course the air up there is just terrible.

It has been reported that several of these fires are arsons. It's impossible for a sane person to wrap his mind around the idea of deliberately starting a fire that the perpetrator knows is going to cause such widespread damage, loss and misery.

I told my client, too bad they can't take these psychotic criminals when they are caught and burn them at the stake - very, very slowly. Just can only be grateful that our civilization as a whole is not as sick and barbaric as these monsters are.

Unless you hear otherwise, all is well at Casa Electrolux.

~
CRL

P.S.: Arlee is in the Philippines - will return Oct. 29.
 
We live within the city limits of San Diego, and the city itself is out of the path of the fires. But some of the suburbs and rural areas are a different story. Anywhere east of here is desert-like, and these Santa Ana winds are thethal on the area, not receiving any significant amounts of rainfall since April.

We live about a mile south of Qualcomm Stadium, which is one of the main refuges for the evacuees. Thus, we're living in a safe area, thankfully, this time around. But there are so many in the community not as fortunate. We have not seen regular TV in two days, as there is continuous and round the clock wildfire coverage, and it all is so unbelievable. So many complete losses of homes. Rancho Bernardo and Poway are some of the hardest hit. But the news is reporting time after time incidents of good acts and good deeds done by fellow community members, so many people donating items to refuge locations. It's great to see these acts of kindness.

The fires are still raging, but the good news is that some people are being allowed to return to their homes. The weather forecast for the end of the week promises cooler weather, so we're looking forward to that.
 
This is not all that unexpected...

Back in mid-summer I remember hearing about the low rainfall of last winter, esp in the southern part of the state. I wondered if this October would bring more big fires to the state, and sure enough it has. Up here in the SF Bay Area we've been spared in large part due to a few rainstorms that moved through here last week. But it's warmed up considerably yesterday and today, with temps in the 70's and 80's, and I heard on NPR today that the fuel moisture content has fallen back down to 5% already. So far the offshore breezes have been missing or moderate; those were main contributing factors in the '91 Oakland hills fire.

Re the Oakland fire. I dislike comparing disasters, but I guess it's a natural tendency. As I recall, nearly 3,000 homes were destroyed in that fire. An entire section of the city was levelled - like an atomic bomb had hit it. Some 50 people perished, due to the swiftness of the fire, the congested roads in the fire areas, and the lack of warning. The current conflagration(s) in Socal are over a much wider, less densely built up area, and fortunately people have had much more warning and are being evacuated in time. Still, I'm sure that doesn't help much when your home and all your worldly possessions go up in smoke.

There was also little question of arson in the Oakland fire. But apparently some of the fires in the south state are arson related. I am reminded of the Japanese attempt to use high altitude balloons to drop incendiaries on the forests of the Pacific Coast in WWII. They were successful in getting the balloons to their targets, but their timing was bad, and the expected conflagrations didn't happen. It makes me wonder if terrorists are not trying the same sort of thing - starting fires at a time and in a place where they will do the most damage.
 
I don't know if it's terrorists as much as failing infrastructure (at least one of these was started by a downed power line) homegrown crazies, or just careless people. We don't get all that many fires up here (thankfully) but the ones that do are usually on I-5 and started by some smoker who threw his butt out the window.

But really, when it's that dry and windy, anything can start a fire.
 
Evacuations

I'm so glad that people are getting to safety in time rather than wait until it's too late. Thank God the local officials are making them evacuate because i'm sure there are those that would..."take their chances." Like in Katrina. I feel bad for the animals both wild and pets. A friend told me that she had heard there was a woman that managed to get all of her horses to safety but one and had to abandon it. What a horrible choice to have to make.
 
Washernut, there were people who didn't leave when they were supposed to. It's been reported in newswire articles those stragglers, who had to be "rescue", ended up taking resources away form trying to fight the fires in order to get the ones who refused for so long out safely. If it's the same story I saw earlier this evening, the lady's neighbor showed up with a trailer and she was able to get that one remaining horse out.
 
Fuel for the fires
Back before there ever were people living in these places for thousands of years there have been forest fires burning unextinguished. Those fires never got out of control like todays fires because they burned out naturally and left little behind on the ground. Also because there was little left on the ground to burn any subsequent fires themselves were never so bad that they burned the larger trees to cinders and they survived. It wasn't until Smokey the Bear came into being and state/provincial parks started putting out all those forest fires they were actually creating the problems they now face when one does get out of control because of all that undergrowth that in nature wouldn't be there.
 
Well, it's a difficult situation. People want to "save" the forests by preventing forest fires. Controlled burns can be tricky, have been known to get out of control, and can also elicit popular opposition (smoke, charred forest floor, etc). The natural vegetation of many of these areas is called chaparral - which is heavy in high oil/resin containing drought tolerant shrubbery and small trees. This stuff is designed to burn - the seeds of some chaparral don't germinate unless they have been exposed to the high heat of a brush fire.

My gut feeling is that the forest/human interface will continue to burn in California until we've turned our Mediterranean climate landscape into something more resembling Italy or Spain: no longer any virgin forest, heavily managed agricultural land instead. It will be a high price to pay for protecting our dwellings on the edge of eden.
 
Shane

Where in Palm Springs does your Dad live? I live in PS proper and the air quality is quite good here. The closest fire to us here is the Big Bear fire which is about an hour from here. Many cabins and homes there have been burned. We had our Fire drama last year with three different fires in the high desert and the major one in the Banning area ( my hometown ) where four firefighters were killed.

My sister who lives in San Marcos which is in north San Diego County says that schools are closed ther due to poor air quality. The fire just south of Escondido and visible from San Marcos has crossed the I15 freeway, closing it. Most everyone is encouraged to stay home from work. Alot of people who work in the city ( San Diego ) live in the north county and cannot commute because the freeway is closed. Pomerado Hospital in Poway was evacuated as well as their skilled nursing facilties. Patients were evac'd to hospitals in the city.

It's amazing how many nutcases go out and start more fires when a fire makes the news. I mean 14 fires in So Cal! For Pete's sake!
 
This is positively heartbreaking (and, IMHO, unacceptable)...

Perhaps it's time for the government to start spending money at home.

Personally, I prefer the National Guard our taxes help support
to actually help guard the nation....

I've seen comments that at least two of the fires may run into November.

http://cbs8.com/misc/fires_oct_07/stats.html
Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:02 PM

Harris Fire

The Harris Fire has reached 72,000 acres and is 10% contained. Full containment is expected Oct. 31. The cost to date to fight the fire has topped $2 million.

One additional civilian suffered burns and was treated and transported to a local hospital. A total of 21 civilians have been injured and one killed by this fire. Approximately 4,500 people are or have been threatened and evacuated.

Additional evacuations are being ordered. An estimated 200 to 500 homes have been destroyed or damaged. About 1,500 homes are or have been threatened. Over 1,200 personnel are fighting this fire.

Witch Fire

The Witch Fire has burned nearly 200,000 acres and is 1 percent contained.

Twelve firefighters have been injured on this fire, and there currently are nearly 1,500 firefighters assigned to this incident.

The fire is expected to continue to move west and southwest, threatening the communities of San Diego, Poway, Ramona, Escondido, Lakeside, Valley Center, San Marcos and Rancho Santa Fe. It has also spread to the east threatening the communities of Julian and Pine Hills. Current efforts are working towards a more accurate fire perimeter size.

Rice Fire

The Rice fire has burned 7,500 acres and is 10% contained, with full containment expected on Oct. 28, with full control expected Nov. 5.

One firefighter has been injured. Over 200 residences have been destroyed, as well as 2 commercial properties, 40 outbuildings, 91 vehicles and 20,000 avocado trees. The fire is actively burning in the Rainbow Glen area. There has been an evacuation of the Deluz Canyon area.

Poomacha Fire

The Poomacha Fire has destroyed 20,000 acres and is 0 % contained.

There have been 10 injuries to firefighers, 218 firefighters are assigned to this incident. Fifty homes have been destroyed. The fire increased in size substantially due to extreme fire behavior, lack of resources and high winds. Some resources are beginning to arrive at the incident, but no significant perimeter control has been initiated due to structure protection priorities.
 
"It's amazing how many nutcases go out and start more fires when a fire makes the news."

Firestarters are deeply rooted in some serious pathology. My sister was a host home provider for homeless and emotionally disturbed kids for several years, and one theme she found repeatedly in a frighteningly large percentage of them was the propensity to start fires.

Today I was thinking about Arverne and Edgemere, two seaside communities in Far Rockaway, New York, that my parents would drive us through during the late sixties (I am sure native Noo Yawkers toggles, shane, and ross will remember).

It was an old resort area with hundreds of blocks of abandoned wooden bungalows and Queen Anne mansions. The City designated much of it a slum clearance area and, in their infinite wisdom, chose to warehouse large numbers of psychiatric patients, many of whom were sexual predators or had serious past histories of abuse, in institutions or out.

Many of them would hang out, wander about unchallenged, and set fire to these old structures. It was said that some of the arsonists set these fires to facilitate orgasm; others did it simply for kicks, and held impromptu contests on whose bungalow would burn brighter.

Urban legend held that incoming pilots on approach to JFK Airport would home in on a Rockaway fire. As the years went by, I remembered watching, during our infrequent drives through the communities, what was left vanish into burnt wrecks and piles of sand.

It was sort of a precursor to the more obvious fires that later plagued neighborhoods closer to our own, in the Bronx and Brooklyn. These were far more deadly, and equally senseless, but there, greedy landlords and tenants desperate for priority placements on the housing lists, but the Rockaway fires stand out in my memory because they were set for ENTERTAINMENT value.

When you are a kid and you hear your elders discuss such things and see the aftermath for yourself....well, what a weird intro to human nature!

It's a pretty apocalyptic regression to what is happening in California, knowing at least some of these fires, in so many separate locations, surely have to have been not only deliberately set, but by more than one arsonist.

On the radio, they are speculating that at least one of the fires may have been caused by some sort of beetle.
 
Re: I'm safe up North:

I'm way North from these Fires, at about 7-hours driving distance, but if the Winds start changing direction, we might get some Smoke up here, although I know that it would have to be quite a lot of heavy Wind and for a long time.

I will also say some Prayers for those who are in or near that area and hope that those of our AW-ORG people down there are safe and hopefully none or minimal if any damage and in no danger.

Peace, Blessings, Prayers and Friendship Hugs, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...
 
I think there are a lot of rumors and speculation around these fires. Estimates range from 500,000 evacuated to 1,000,000. With that type of broad estimating it's hard to know what the real number is. It also seems odd to me that smoke could be detected in New York when the winds are blowing the smoke from east to west and satellite photos confirm it. It's just the usual case of information around impacts of a natural disaster becoming embellished as it passes from person to person.

Today there's a weak sea breeze off the southern California coast so things are improving. By the weekend a weak weather system could help to moisten things up further. If all goes well the firefighters could get the upper hand on most of this in a few more days.
 
Smoke . . .

I was out of town from last Tuesday to Monday afternoon, first in Sacramento for a business seminar through Saturday, then visting friends in San Jose and Morro Bay. When I drove down the 101 from Morro Bay on Monday everything was clear until I hit Ventura where the 101 turns east. You could see the smoke in the air, probably from the Malibu fire.

I live about 12 miles from Malibu as the crow flies, but on the other side of the mountains so I didn't anticipate too much smoke making it through. Oh was I wrong, it has been nasty here, with the smoke probably being blown up Topanga Canyon. It has really kicked up my allergies, but being in an older neighborhood well away from any chapparal we're safe so I'm not about to gripe too much about a stuffy nose and sneezing.
 
Methinks we need to start building with concrete and have (standing seam) non-combustible metal roofs instead of combustible asphalt shingles.
I'm thinking concrete can be built to withstand earquakes, obviosuly, n'est-ce pas?

For exisiting construction, in places where there is no frost, does it makes sense to have a lawn sprinkler (think the golf course kind that wets a huge circle) installed on the roof that will protect the whole house? Worse comes to worse it can draw from the swimming pool.........

Aren't there also landscaping requirments to prevent the spread of fires (to homes) in dry climes? I forget what the procedure/concept is called........
 
Fireproofing homes

It's not as simple as putting on a metal roof or putting up concrete walls.

Metal roofs themselves don't combust, but they are excellent heat conductors, and can ignite the wood underneath unless there's plenty of special insulation. Stucco is basically a type of concrete, and rather fire-resistant. But it doesn't stop the heat radiated from a big fire from going through the windows and igniting the rooms inside. For this, one needs insulated steel shutters. That's assuming someone will be around to shut them in case of forest fire.

Then there are the eaves. Good building practices usually call for ventilated eaves. But ventilated eaves can also result in fire entering the structure through the vents.

Tile or slate roofing is the most fire-resistant, but it's also quite heavy and can be a real problem in an big quake. Not just from tiles falling off the roof, but from all the extra weight which may torque the underlying structure in a big shaker.

Let's face it: if you build your home in the middle of chaparral or dry forest, and don't clear vegetation at least 30 feet on all sides of the home, there's not a lot you can do to save the home if the surrounding land is engulfed in flames. For small lots (typical 1/6th acre lots in the Oakland hills, for example) that can mean no vegetation to speak of on most of the property. Hey, if I wanted to live that way I'd move to El Paso.

Even so, with houses set less than 100 feet from each other, just the heat from one structure burning can set the other ablaze. That was a big problem in the Oakland fire: putting out a house fire is far more complex than putting out a brush fire, and the firefighters there said once a home on the edge of the wildlands caught fire, things got a lot more difficult to control.
 
My cousin and her husband live in Rancho San Bernardo section of San Diego, they have been staying at the QualCom staduim for 2 days, don't know if thier home is gone or what, the road is blocked and things don't look good. However, they have a cell and people to the north mountian neighborhood say that things look OK in the neighborhood, but there area few burned houses, one good, one destroyed, it is really random.
They have a stucco home with a tile roof, those homes tend to resist cinders blowing. We are all hoping.
 
Concrete and tile . . .

Concrete doesn't burn, and neither does steel. However, cast in place concrete is a hugely expensive material to build with due to the hand labor required to construct the formwork and install reinforcing steel, and has terrible insulation properties as well. Concrete block is a bit cheaper, but still expensive once you factor in all the steel, and it still has poor insulation value. In the right climate, thermal mass can be used to offset the insulation issue but you don't need concrete in all of the walls to do this. Concrete is also far from a green material in that producing it makes lots of CO2, and the weight of concrete walls requires even more concrete in the foundation. I love the look of properly done cast in place concrete, but I doubt I'll ever get to design such a building due to the costs and environmental issues.

Most roof tiles today are made of lightweight concrete or fiber-cement and aren't much of a problem structurally. A tile roof on a wood-framed stucco building is a pretty good way to go in fire-prone areas, especially if you have minimal, sealed overhangs and ventilate the attic through roof vents with louvers and screens.

One issue rarely talked about is the popularity of vinyl windows. They're cheaper to make than wood, don't rot, and have good thermal properties, but at some point the vinyl will melt and once the glass falls out all bets are off. I have no idea if this has been a factor in some of the damage here. I don't like vinyl windows because they rarely look as good as a real wood window, and in a fire I think I'd put my money on an aluminum-clad wood window. I might be wrong on the latter point though . . . I'd really love to see some research on the matter. All-metal windows are certainly the best for fire resistance but they're expensive and must have thermal breaks in the frame and sash if they're to have decent insulation properties.

Regarding using sprinkler systems to stop fires, I once worked on a house on a two-acre hillside site next to a state park which had special provisions for just that. The system worked like this: if activated either manually or by special sensors, the sprinkler system would turn all zones on full force. If the system dectected low water pressure, then it would switch on a pumping system to draw water from the pool. In the event of a power failure, a generator system would start up to power the pumps. Needless to say, this was not a low-budget house and the owner was a computer guy who understood how to keep the system up.
 
There are some fire-resistant homes that have been built in the Oakland Hills fire zone. But I don't think any of them have cast-in-place concrete walls. Their landscaping tends on the desert type. There were a number of articles in the local papers after the '91 fire storm about what it takes to fire-proof a home. Codes have been updated and what's been built up there is definitely safer in a fire season than before, if for no better reason than that the 10 meter safe zone around structures has been rigorously enforced.
 

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