Changing a GE FF Clutch.

[volvoguy87]

I need help!

I need to remove the pin which holds the pump drive on top of the clutch so I can put it on the new one. How do I remove the pin? The 1958 repair instructions Robert scanned referenced a special tool for this (naturally, I do not have one). The pin is hollow.

What should I do next?
Dave

 

[saltysam]

How do I remove the pin?

Hey Dave, from what you are discribing it sounds just like a "roll pin". In order to drive this pin out get a flat head punch that will match the size of the pin (or slightly smaller in diameter)Actually the slightly smaller diameter punch will work better. Line the punch up with the pin and using a small hammer or rubber mallet tap on the punch and the pin should slide out. to re-install just put the new part on put the pin in the hole and lightly tap on the pin to slide it in. Hope this helps.......
Mark

 

[volvoguy87]

Thanks.

I did not have the right size punch on hand this evening. I will stop by the hardware store and get some more punches.

I really miss my Maytag right now, especially its clutch belts,
Dave

 

[volvoguy87]

Any other thoughts?

I can't budge the pin with a flat tip punch. 5/32 is too big, the smaller sizes do nothing, until you get to the small one which just slides down the middle of the pin.

The new clutch has a pin on each side with a ring, bent over the top of the clutch. The old one lacks these pins. They are retaining pins for the slip shoes. Should I remove them when I install the new clutch or leave them in place?

I am hating this thing!

Thank you,
Dave

 

[Unimatic1140]

If I remember correctly you remove those pins Dave, they are for shipping/installing as I remember.

You need to use a punch size that just barely fits through the hole and really hit the punch hard with the hammer. Try it from both sides, usually one it comes out from one side easier than the other.

 

[volvoguy87]

Failure.

Nothing seems to be able to budge the pin. For whatever its worth, the pump failed last year and dumped a LOT of water through the clutch and may have rusted the pin in place. I have been soaking it liberally with penetrating oil for 2 days and it will not move. I will take it to an appliance repair shop and have them give it a try. If they can't budge it, I'll try drilling. If that won't work, I'll likely end up sawing through the shaft atop the old clutch and buying a new pump drive wheel and pin.

Why did GE put the water-containing pump on top of the clutch and motor? This is the only arrangement that will ensure the failure of the pump sends water through these two other components!

I miss my Maytag,
Dave

 

[panthera]

Dave,

I have been able to get similar pins to budge (sometimes) by cold-shocking them. If you have access to a cold spray (if it's explosive, careful where you use it!), try spraying it through the rolled pin. It might shrink just enough. Second possibility, a very thin reversing tap (sorry, I only know that word in German,hope this is clear), to get the pin turning. Once it turns a bit, the rust bond will be broken.
Third possibility is counter-intuitive, but warm the pin (tip of a soldiering iron). Its expansion and then shrinkage might break the bond.
I have seen GE motors (other applications) which used pins with tapered shafts. If someone used such a beast here at some point, you may be hitting the wrong side?

 

[saltysam]

one other thing to consider

Hey Dave, would it be possible to post a picture of the part with the pin? One other thing you might try is to heat the shaft around the pin area with a propane torch. This will usually expand the hole in the shaft enough to drive the pin out. You don't want the shaft to be glowing red, just warm it enough so you can still place your hand on the shaft without getting burned.. worth a try...
Mark

 

[volvoguy87]

Update.

The pin is in a very tight location. There is a drum which sits right atop the clutch. This drum is what drives the pump via a flexable coupling (The motor and clutch are hung from the suspension, the pump is attached to the stationary outer tub). There is a hole on either side of the pump drive drum and the pin is down in the hole.

I took the motor and clutch out of the washer and took them to a local Maytag shop and they have a special tool to drive out the pin. I'll know next week. I will try to fire up my camera and post some pictures too so you can see this horrid thing. The design works well on paper, but it's a different thing entirely in practice!

Thank you for all your suggestions,
Dave

 

[saltysam]

will try to fire up my camera and post some pictures too so

Cool Dave, will be good to see some pictures. Probably the special tool they are referring to is a small hydraulic press that will press the pin out with ease....keep us updated with your progress.
Mark

 

[filterflo]

While There May Be Other GE Clutch Tools.........

This very simple tool set is what is normally used to remove the pin on a GE clutch. It is GEMLINE # TB665

GE clutches were/are a very ingenious, durable, and reliable design that permitted full pumping of water at all times and yet could still be a multi speed machine.

The track record of the GE clutches has been proven over and over as millions were made and they lasted many many years without any needed repairs. I still have 3 GE washers with the original clutches and clutch shoes that work perfect. Like any mechanical device they did wear out just like the clutch in your car or the clutch in your Frigidaire washer would wear....... Lack of mechanical ability or experience in changing or repairing a clutch does not mean it was a bad design.......No one learns to fix things overnight....Some people catch on quickly, others do not. Learning to rebuild a clutch can be trickly IF the correct proceedures are not followed......All in all both the GE and Frigidaire clutches were quite durable and lasted years......

 

[filterflo]

Pin insertion tool, Pin removal tool, extra drive pin, and extra removal pins.....with hex wrench.

 

[filterflo]

Close Up...........

 

[volvoguy87]

Oh darn it all to heck!

I took the motor and clutch assembly to the best local appliance repair shop here. They have been unable to budge the pin and it has been so long since they have had to do it that they can't find their special tool for the job. The special tool is mentioned in the 1958 GE repair manual Robert scanned. It is referenced on page 59 and there is a picture on page 60 of it in use.

Does the special GE tool WH50X55 really do something special? Is the clutch punch set pictured above a special order item or can I buy one locally?

I WILL replace the clutch on this washer, and yes, I am stubborn,
Dave

 

[saltysam]

DAVEY<DAVEY<DAVEY (chanting)

You go boy! WE're behind ya! Dont let something like a itty bitty roll pin get in your way....Keep us posted as to how everything turns out.......
Mark

 

[panthera]

Dave,

Would it be possible for you to post a shot or two for us, one of each side of the shaft, one showing us the relatively limited access, etc?

I ask because there is a small machine shop at our university, the man who runs it is absolutely brilliant. Maybe, if he saw the pictures, something would occur to him.

 

[volvoguy87]

Great News!!

The local appliance shop was able to remove that damned pin! The guy said he had a special tool for just that application but it has been about 10 years since he has had to remove a GE FF clutch so it took him several days to find the tool. With the proper tool, liberal amounts of WD-40, and possibly some very creative and enthusiastic use of profanity, he was able to drive it out. With the pin removed, I was able to remove the clutch and see just what went wrong. I showed the repairman AW.org and he became a bit of a fan.

I will post pictures later, (camera has a dead battery) but for now, here's a description of what I found in the old clutch:

1. The shoes (there are 8 of them) had uneven wear.
2. The shoes had cracks in them, indicating that they had overheated.
3. the rubber pad at the bottom of the clutch was totally shot.
4. The bearing on the outer clutch drum was shot. I thought a bad bearing would have made a roaring sound, not a grinding sound.
5. The bad outer clutch drum bearing caused a pretty deep groove to be worn into the solid steel extension shaft.

The old clutch was so loud, the noise of the washer drowned out any conversation in the next room, especially on low speed. With the new clutch installed, I never knew a GE could be so pleasntly quiet. No more grinding, clunking, and banging. For the first time I can recall, I can actually hear the water flowing from the flume into the filter pan. I can also hear the agitator sloshing and splashing (4 straight vanes, but I am keeping my eyes out for a ramp activator).

I can see why the earlier design with the motor in the middle of the back of the machine would be easier to service. Accessing the motor and changing the belt on this one was unpleasnt to say the least. Tensioning the belt was the worst. I really should have put the washer on its front or side to better access the bottom. Now I want to change the belt on a WP/KM machine for comparison. It's not that it was impossible to do, it's that it was very very difficult to access, involving reaching across sharp edges in awkward positions. A flashlight that I could strap to my head was very helpful. To compare my old Maytag A208 to this, I think the folks at Maytag took a GE and told their dsesigners, "This is how we do not want to design our washers." Extra bonus points to Maytag for ease of service.

For all the difficulties, the Filter Flo is back in daily operation, and is purring like a kitten.

Thanks for your tips,
Dave

 

[classiccaprice]

Yay Dave!

Great Job!

 

[saltysam]

ALRIGHT DAVE!!!!

I knew you would finally get that pin out! Great job!
Can't wait for the pics.
mark