Clog on a KitchenAid KDS-16

[bxb209]

Greetings All,

I have a KDS-16 KitchenAid dishwasher that normally works great, unfortunately now it won't drain water due to a clog or something.

I can get the cancel drain function to work however.

I have disassembled as much of the components I could in order to get to the drain valve to clear the clog. I'm hitting a snag though as I'm not sure where the drainage valve is, and there's one final plate I cannot remove even after the screws have been removed.

Does anyone have any experience with dishwasher?

ANY help is much appreciated.

 

[stevet]

Hold on Partner!

Start by putting back all the parts you took out so far in the correct order, then:

1st question:
Did you just install a new disposer and does the dishwashewr drain into it? If so, did you knock out the knock out in the disposer that would open up the line for the dishwasher to drain. In other words, where the DW connects to the disposer, you need to knock the plug out before connecting the hose to it. Review the installation guide that came with the disposer.

2nd question;
Does the machine drain if you hit the cancel drain button?

If it does, then you could have a timer or program button issue to explore.

3rd questio:
If it does not drain at all, did you check that the drain solenoid is actually working? You should hear a loud click noise when the coil of the drain valve energizes. If you don't you will have to check to see if youa re getting 120 volts to it when draining is called for.

The drain valve is located behind the lower front panel. So check there first for proper operation. Debris can work its way past the filters on the machine and get stuck in the valve preventing it from working.

Check these things out and report back and we will walk you thru the repair if needed.
email me if you want to.
Steve

 

[bxb209]

Thanks for the reply.

I haven't installed or changed anything. I'm pretty sure this is my fault as I poured the contents of a soapy saucepan into the dishwasher drain. Now if I pour water into the bottom it does not drain like normal.

As for a garbage disposal, I don't have one. I imagine the line feeds into the basement somewhere. It appears this dishwasher setup has been present as is for a while.

Yes, the cancel drain functions.

Should I try fishing the drain valve? I should make sure I know where it is first. I emailed KitchenAid for a manual but so far they have not responded.

I can take a picture showing where I think it may be.

Thanks for the help.

 

[appnut]

What were the contents of the soapy sauce pan?

 

Have you removed the wash arm and the filter underneath to see if the filter is clogged? 

 

[qsd-dan]

If you happen to narrow down the diagnosis to a bad timer, there's a new one on Ebay. BTW, these timers are hard to come by, especially new in the box. *Hint, Hint*

http://cgi.ebay.com/KITCHENAID-TIMER-SWITCH-101733-1-HOBART-/280598122372?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4154f38f84

 

[bxb209]

Tomato sauce I believe.

I've removed everything I can so far and no sign of any clogged filter, I'm not even sure if this model has a filter like the newer models do.

 

[appnut]

The big metal mesh thing that's underr the 4-way hydrosweet wash arm is the filter.  It's quite sizeable. 

 

[bxb209]

Oh ok, that's the filter. Yes, I've removed that and am quite a few steps past that in disassembly. The filter mesh looks ok, the issue is with the drain valve I believe.

I may have found it. Is it on the left side and rather small? Rectangular and smaller than a penny?

 

[appnut]

Keep us posted!!!

 

[DADoES]

The drain valve is under the tub, with a couple hoses attached.  You can't get to it from the inside by removing the filter, etc.

There's no functional difference in draining via the Cancel/Drain cycle button vs. the normal drain periods that occur during a full cycle.  Cancel/Drain simply advances the timer to the last drain period after the final rinse, before dry, runs that drain increment, then advances the timer to off.  Pressing Cancel/Drain when the machine is already off cranks the timer around to that last drain period, runs it, then shuts off again.  If Cancel/Drain works but one or more other drain periods during a full cycle don't, then the problem may be bad spots, worn cams, in the timer.

 

[stevet]

great scan, DADoES

Barry,
The scan above shows the original 90 degree drain valve.I am emailing you a scan of the straight thru valves that may be on your machine.

There is no snaking out the unit or any chemical you can throw in to make it work. If in fact, the dishwasher drains completely on cancel drain, then there are timer issues. But have you tried every cycle to see what happens? It may only be one particular one that is a problem. Check further and report back.

 

[bxb209]

"The drain valve is under the tub, with a couple hoses attached. You can't get to it from the inside by removing the filter, etc."

I was afraid of that.

"There's no functional difference in draining via the Cancel/Drain cycle button vs. the normal drain periods that occur during a full cycle. Cancel/Drain simply advances the timer to the last drain period after the final rinse, before dry, runs that drain increment, then advances the timer to off."

Well that occurred to me that if cancel drain works there can't be a clog, but then why doesn't the normal draining work, i.e. pouring water in the bottom?

Thank you for the diagram.

 

[stevet]

Pumped drain

Barry, your machine drains only when the motor is running. There is a drain impeller which in reality, is always trying to drain the water out, but it cannot do that until the drain valve(solenoid)opens to let the water out. So pouring water into it will only result in the tank filling up.

The older Kitchenaids prior to the Model 15 series had a gravity drain unless it was bought with the built in drain pump. But let's not confuse you any more.

 

[stevet]

So...maybe nothing is actually wrong with the machine after

So, You say it drains but not if you pour water in it like the soapy pasta pot!

And you say it drains on cancel and on normal cycles..so then what is the problem besides that you were not familiar with the workings of your machine?
Am I reading all this correctly?

 

[bxb209]

Without a manual I have to gauge and guess as best as I can.

"So...maybe nothing is actually wrong with the machine after all?"

I wish that were the case... I just reassembled everything and did a test run. Within the first two minutes I am getting a leak on both sides of the machine so I stopped it.

 

[cuffs054]

Barry, It almost sounds like it may be Over filling. I wonder if something is blocking the overflow protection switch in the tank.

 

[combo52]

KDS-16 LEAKING

When ever any DW leaks when it is running around or under the door, open the door and if it is filled with suds or very foamy water you have accidently gotten some non DW detergent in the machine. If this happens fill the open detergent cup with cooking oil close the door and let the machine run, or do a cancel drain and start a few rinse& hold cycles till the leaking stops. You may need to put an old bath towel down on the floor in front of the machine to catch the dripping.

 

[stevet]

Downy to the wire!

Well, if you want, you might want to try a small amount of fabric softener to cut the suds and then a few rinse and holds after that too.
Maybe you have a large residue from the pasta pot still lurking in there!

 

[stevet]

A switrch in time, saves nine?

Cuffs, good thought there on the switch and it is possible that it could be malfunctioning. However, the 15-17 models used pressure switches to control water levels like washers and the small hole in the sump sometimes clogs with debris. One has to be very careful when trying to repair this issue as the little nipple that the hose connects to in the sump will often break off after this many years if too m uch force is exerted on it. Then you have a problem trying to fix it.
But the FLOAT type switches premiered on the 18 series and continues to this day as you may well know.