Cold Water Wash?
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a note from the lab manager
In his thought it really does not pay any longer to use higher temps.. As any bacteria left on washed items will be killed when tumble drying or ironing. both methods will leave fabrics bacteria free. Temperatures in both methods will be high enough to "sanatize" all work. But still hard for me to accept.
In his thought it really does not pay any longer to use higher temps.. As any bacteria left on washed items will be killed when tumble drying or ironing. both methods will leave fabrics bacteria free. Temperatures in both methods will be high enough to "sanatize" all work. But still hard for me to accept.
Thanks, Lee!
It always helps to have you and Laundress on board.
Personally, I wouldn't wash my dishes in cold water and expect to kill the microbes...and their surfaces are much easier to clean, so why expect it of clothing fibers?
It always helps to have you and Laundress on board.
Personally, I wouldn't wash my dishes in cold water and expect to kill the microbes...and their surfaces are much easier to clean, so why expect it of clothing fibers?
Remember reading a hospital manual that was printed by and for doctors, from around 1920's or so. One section dealt with hospital laundry (buidling, design, practices, etc), and it clearly recommended wash temperatures of no more than 140F, held for ten minutes as good enough for most general hospital laundry. Wash was proceeded by a warm water "pre-wash", and obviously items from infectious wards were handled differently.
Sudsman is correct, "disenfection" of laundry by temperature is not very accurate as one has no idea what bacteria one is trying to kill, and different germs are killed at different temperatures. Some "germs" can withstand 180F and above temperatures. Chemicals are much better way to go.
Being as all this may, simply laundering textiles in warm or hot water along with a good detergent or soap goes a long way towards "germ free" laundry. The buggers are disloged from laundry and flushed down the drain, alive, but still away from one's laundry.
What one wants to do is remove the muck and filth germs feed upon, from one's laundry, that is what is important. We keep our persons and households clean to reduce places for germs to get a foothold, same with laundry.
Sudsman is correct, "disenfection" of laundry by temperature is not very accurate as one has no idea what bacteria one is trying to kill, and different germs are killed at different temperatures. Some "germs" can withstand 180F and above temperatures. Chemicals are much better way to go.
Being as all this may, simply laundering textiles in warm or hot water along with a good detergent or soap goes a long way towards "germ free" laundry. The buggers are disloged from laundry and flushed down the drain, alive, but still away from one's laundry.
What one wants to do is remove the muck and filth germs feed upon, from one's laundry, that is what is important. We keep our persons and households clean to reduce places for germs to get a foothold, same with laundry.
Cold Water And Chlorine Bleach
Chlorine bleach will whiten, remove stains and disenfect in cold water, which is why those who mention laundering with cold water and still having "white" whites, when adding LCB.
Activated oxygen bleaches, depending upon the formula can disenfect the same or better than LCB, and indeed such chemicals are used in Europe,where chlorine bleach never was popular. Commercial laundries on that side of the pond have access to detergents containing TAED (oxygen bleach activator), and oxygen bleach that will give total disenfection of wash loads. Wash temps must be 140F or above and held for 8 to 10 minutes. Again as boil washing is nothing new for Europe or the UK, it is not a big deal, especially when using washing machines that have built in heaters and can do a profile wash.
Such detergents as mentioned above are marketed to hospital laundries, B&B laundries, and other places that have "public" used laundry.
Chlorine bleach will whiten, remove stains and disenfect in cold water, which is why those who mention laundering with cold water and still having "white" whites, when adding LCB.
Activated oxygen bleaches, depending upon the formula can disenfect the same or better than LCB, and indeed such chemicals are used in Europe,where chlorine bleach never was popular. Commercial laundries on that side of the pond have access to detergents containing TAED (oxygen bleach activator), and oxygen bleach that will give total disenfection of wash loads. Wash temps must be 140F or above and held for 8 to 10 minutes. Again as boil washing is nothing new for Europe or the UK, it is not a big deal, especially when using washing machines that have built in heaters and can do a profile wash.
Such detergents as mentioned above are marketed to hospital laundries, B&B laundries, and other places that have "public" used laundry.
ronhic
Well-known member
Brisnat is spot on about the washing scene in Oz (well away from this forum at least).
Our family seem to have bucked this trend and I think my mother will go to the grave (and I will too) professing the benefits of 40c or higher (104F). Her 'hotel quality' white Actil cotton sheets are enough to almost blind you hanging on the line in summer. All washed at 60c with no bleach and a couple of them are well over 40yrs old.
Several of our detergent formulations are designed and promoted for cold water use. Cold Power being one of them. Most are promoted for cold water use regardless. Personally, even if they are 'cold water' formulations, I have always used them in warm (30-40c) water.
It is undoubtedly true that there is a build up of scum in washing machines as a result of cold water washing. Some of this has to do with the use of fabric conditioners too. The technical term is 'Scrud' and it is a horrible off grey oily sludge that comes about because conditioner isn't washed off the machines innards with a warm or hot wash the next time round. People who wash in warm or hot water rarely get 'Scrud'. Most people have no idea what it is until a washing machine mechanic tells them and THEN tells them to do a full hot wash with no cloths and a double dose of detergent. (Agitate and let sit for 1/2hr and then let it finish the cycle.) People only run a maintenance cycle if they know to do it.
It is an interesting comment about people not getting ill and I don't know if it can at all be attributed to cold water washing, but there appears to be an increase in general illness, lingering colds/coughs (colds in children especially) and allergies which I do wonder if some of this could be attributed to NOT washing in hot or warm water and not just the 'daycare' syndrome - particularly given Sudsmans comments above.
Many a time I as a child I reused the bathwater or vice versa from my sister and this is still common. Even with the advent of off peak storage hot water rather than continuously heated storage hot water (electric), people have this 'issue' about using it.
Personally, I like warm and hot water washing and won't change....speaking of which, the towels (60c with Persil tablets..mmmmm) have just about finished.
Our family seem to have bucked this trend and I think my mother will go to the grave (and I will too) professing the benefits of 40c or higher (104F). Her 'hotel quality' white Actil cotton sheets are enough to almost blind you hanging on the line in summer. All washed at 60c with no bleach and a couple of them are well over 40yrs old.
Several of our detergent formulations are designed and promoted for cold water use. Cold Power being one of them. Most are promoted for cold water use regardless. Personally, even if they are 'cold water' formulations, I have always used them in warm (30-40c) water.
It is undoubtedly true that there is a build up of scum in washing machines as a result of cold water washing. Some of this has to do with the use of fabric conditioners too. The technical term is 'Scrud' and it is a horrible off grey oily sludge that comes about because conditioner isn't washed off the machines innards with a warm or hot wash the next time round. People who wash in warm or hot water rarely get 'Scrud'. Most people have no idea what it is until a washing machine mechanic tells them and THEN tells them to do a full hot wash with no cloths and a double dose of detergent. (Agitate and let sit for 1/2hr and then let it finish the cycle.) People only run a maintenance cycle if they know to do it.
It is an interesting comment about people not getting ill and I don't know if it can at all be attributed to cold water washing, but there appears to be an increase in general illness, lingering colds/coughs (colds in children especially) and allergies which I do wonder if some of this could be attributed to NOT washing in hot or warm water and not just the 'daycare' syndrome - particularly given Sudsmans comments above.
Many a time I as a child I reused the bathwater or vice versa from my sister and this is still common. Even with the advent of off peak storage hot water rather than continuously heated storage hot water (electric), people have this 'issue' about using it.
Personally, I like warm and hot water washing and won't change....speaking of which, the towels (60c with Persil tablets..mmmmm) have just about finished.
"Activated oxygen bleaches, depending upon the formula can disinfect the same or better than LCB"
So that's why Whirlpool insists on using OxyClean on its Sanitary with Oxi cycle. (Use this cycle to eliminate 99.9% of bacteria when used in conjunction with the Stain Boost with Heater cycle. Preset cycle setting must be used to achieve the proper sanitization. Be sure to add an oxygen based stain fighter or color safe bleach.)
As for cold water washing: I tried it (with Ariel Excel Gel) and went right back to 104/140°F for colors/whites.
So that's why Whirlpool insists on using OxyClean on its Sanitary with Oxi cycle. (Use this cycle to eliminate 99.9% of bacteria when used in conjunction with the Stain Boost with Heater cycle. Preset cycle setting must be used to achieve the proper sanitization. Be sure to add an oxygen based stain fighter or color safe bleach.)
As for cold water washing: I tried it (with Ariel Excel Gel) and went right back to 104/140°F for colors/whites.
I do think
that between the easily programmable electronic controls of modern machines and the range of low-temperature oxygen activators, acid-releasing agents and enzymes for now four tough areas of dirt/stain, it should be possible to set up wash programs which clean and reduce microbial loads to a safe level.
But until that happy day, my wash program is going to stay at 40C for delicates and 60C for the rest, with a boil wash for the rare occasions when I have been ill or had house guests.
Of course, there is a big difference between setting up a 140° wash in a machine with heater and putting 140° water into a machine from a hot water heater located 70 feet of pipe away, as at my parents' house.
Solved that problem by installing a 10 gallon heater right next to the FL and dishwasher in their kitchen. The water leaves the heater at 145° and the actual temperature in the washer when it begins washing is still well above 130°.
This is extremely good - to my peanut of a brain, it always seemed as tho' mixing the same volume of 40° water and 140° degree water should produce 100° water, but that is not the way Mother Nature wrote the calculations, at all.
Personally, I am an advocate of saving the environment. But when it comes to hygiene, well, near as I can tell, the microbes are winning, we are losing and anything is fair in war.
that between the easily programmable electronic controls of modern machines and the range of low-temperature oxygen activators, acid-releasing agents and enzymes for now four tough areas of dirt/stain, it should be possible to set up wash programs which clean and reduce microbial loads to a safe level.
But until that happy day, my wash program is going to stay at 40C for delicates and 60C for the rest, with a boil wash for the rare occasions when I have been ill or had house guests.
Of course, there is a big difference between setting up a 140° wash in a machine with heater and putting 140° water into a machine from a hot water heater located 70 feet of pipe away, as at my parents' house.
Solved that problem by installing a 10 gallon heater right next to the FL and dishwasher in their kitchen. The water leaves the heater at 145° and the actual temperature in the washer when it begins washing is still well above 130°.
This is extremely good - to my peanut of a brain, it always seemed as tho' mixing the same volume of 40° water and 140° degree water should produce 100° water, but that is not the way Mother Nature wrote the calculations, at all.
Personally, I am an advocate of saving the environment. But when it comes to hygiene, well, near as I can tell, the microbes are winning, we are losing and anything is fair in war.
When cold water is mentioned one MUST keep in mind
They are so wide variations to what cold water really is.. anywhere from 40 to 85 can be called cold water. DO keep in mind that many stains can be set in cold water just as they are in hot water. The "ideal" Temperature for a Prewash is 95 to 98F for a min of 3 mins. then continue with a regular wash of disired temp. There is really NO one method that is PROPER for all washes. A good laundry person relys on a number of different methods times and temperatures to achive the goal. All depends on the fabric the machine the soil content and the type of formula one wishes to use. What may work well in one machine across the street may not work well in another. Just so so many variables.
They are so wide variations to what cold water really is.. anywhere from 40 to 85 can be called cold water. DO keep in mind that many stains can be set in cold water just as they are in hot water. The "ideal" Temperature for a Prewash is 95 to 98F for a min of 3 mins. then continue with a regular wash of disired temp. There is really NO one method that is PROPER for all washes. A good laundry person relys on a number of different methods times and temperatures to achive the goal. All depends on the fabric the machine the soil content and the type of formula one wishes to use. What may work well in one machine across the street may not work well in another. Just so so many variables.
Speaking of...
I do think that between the easily programmable electronic controls of modern machines and the range of low-temperature oxygen activators [...] it should be possible to set up wash programs which clean and reduce microbial loads to a safe level.
Clean+ Technology, Whirlpool UK
I do think that between the easily programmable electronic controls of modern machines and the range of low-temperature oxygen activators [...] it should be possible to set up wash programs which clean and reduce microbial loads to a safe level.
Clean+ Technology, Whirlpool UK
All oxygen bleaches work on the same principle, releasing oxygen. Just as hydrogen peroxide will "kill" germs, so does oxygen bleach per se.
Activated oxygen bleaches, especially those made from TAED combine with sodium perborate to form peracids in wash liquor. This results in a rather powerful disinfection action. Indeed the UK, where wash temps for hospital laundry were mandated at temps >71C for three minutes, TAED oxygen bleaches give the same standard of results at lower wash temps 40C to 60C. TAED will also kill germs even when the amounts used are not enough to shift stains.
Persil by Henkel used to contain TAED, and the box boasted about how sanitary it got laundry. My modern boxes of Persil sensitive list sodium percarbonate, but no bleaching activator (not really needed with percarbonate bleach, as it will remove stains even in cold to warm water, whereas perborate bleaches need temps from warm to hot to boiling to really get going).
One reason given by so many washer repairmen in the UK and Europe for the growing whiff in front loaders, and slime formation is that many detergents today now do not contain bleaches. By this they mean oxygen bleaches and it is because so many persons are wearing coloursm and darks, that cannot or should not be exposed to detergents with any sort of bleaching agents. This combined with low temperature laundry habits is a recipie for creating a bacteria and mould breeding ground inside a washing machine.
L.
Activated oxygen bleaches, especially those made from TAED combine with sodium perborate to form peracids in wash liquor. This results in a rather powerful disinfection action. Indeed the UK, where wash temps for hospital laundry were mandated at temps >71C for three minutes, TAED oxygen bleaches give the same standard of results at lower wash temps 40C to 60C. TAED will also kill germs even when the amounts used are not enough to shift stains.
Persil by Henkel used to contain TAED, and the box boasted about how sanitary it got laundry. My modern boxes of Persil sensitive list sodium percarbonate, but no bleaching activator (not really needed with percarbonate bleach, as it will remove stains even in cold to warm water, whereas perborate bleaches need temps from warm to hot to boiling to really get going).
One reason given by so many washer repairmen in the UK and Europe for the growing whiff in front loaders, and slime formation is that many detergents today now do not contain bleaches. By this they mean oxygen bleaches and it is because so many persons are wearing coloursm and darks, that cannot or should not be exposed to detergents with any sort of bleaching agents. This combined with low temperature laundry habits is a recipie for creating a bacteria and mould breeding ground inside a washing machine.
L.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Mouldy smell from washers
My mother commented today that her Bosch machine has been whiffy over the past two days - something she has never noticed before. She has been using P&G Daz powder for some time, but recently Daz has been "reformulated" to make it even more compact. She always washes on 40 deg C.
I used a good amount of powder and stuck it on a 90 deg Celsius wash, adding a few jugs of water through the dispenser drawer to bring the water level up a bit - just to be sure that the hot solution was gettin to all parts of the tub. P&G detergents seem to create a hellish amount of foam, though.
The machine smelled clean after the cycle, but I will monitor the situation. The next time, it gets the dishwasher cleaner treatment.
My mother commented today that her Bosch machine has been whiffy over the past two days - something she has never noticed before. She has been using P&G Daz powder for some time, but recently Daz has been "reformulated" to make it even more compact. She always washes on 40 deg C.
I used a good amount of powder and stuck it on a 90 deg Celsius wash, adding a few jugs of water through the dispenser drawer to bring the water level up a bit - just to be sure that the hot solution was gettin to all parts of the tub. P&G detergents seem to create a hellish amount of foam, though.
The machine smelled clean after the cycle, but I will monitor the situation. The next time, it gets the dishwasher cleaner treatment.
djmjlcst
Well-known member
Clothes and Cold Water...........
I personally use hot water washes for whites, underwear, and sheets not to mention dish rags too. This followed by a cold rinse.
Warm water washes for clothes - jeans, shirts, etc. But depending on the season I'll use a cold rinse during summer and fall, but for winter and early spring I'll use a warm rinse - due to the cold weather here which causes the water to be just above freezing (or so it seems)! I find that cold water washes for those clothes labeled as such just don't get all the detergent off the clothes. You can see residue left over after the rinse. I don't pack my washers too full either. However even with cold water wash clothes, I still prefer a warm rinse to make sure the detergent residue is gone.
Is there any harm with washing cold water labeled clothes in warm water? I would guess it depends on the fabric.
Just my .02 - Mike L.
I personally use hot water washes for whites, underwear, and sheets not to mention dish rags too. This followed by a cold rinse.
Warm water washes for clothes - jeans, shirts, etc. But depending on the season I'll use a cold rinse during summer and fall, but for winter and early spring I'll use a warm rinse - due to the cold weather here which causes the water to be just above freezing (or so it seems)! I find that cold water washes for those clothes labeled as such just don't get all the detergent off the clothes. You can see residue left over after the rinse. I don't pack my washers too full either. However even with cold water wash clothes, I still prefer a warm rinse to make sure the detergent residue is gone.
Is there any harm with washing cold water labeled clothes in warm water? I would guess it depends on the fabric.
Just my .02 - Mike L.
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 5,000
Slight chance of fading.
Bu then a hot dryer does the same. IMHO most darks need a medium to low heat in the dryer, rather than high.
Be careful with those care labels. I have seen care guides given (sewn in to garments) that clearly indicate to me that the PIC (persion in charge) never EVER did laundry. Many are ridiculous.
Bu then a hot dryer does the same. IMHO most darks need a medium to low heat in the dryer, rather than high.
Be careful with those care labels. I have seen care guides given (sewn in to garments) that clearly indicate to me that the PIC (persion in charge) never EVER did laundry. Many are ridiculous.
brettsomers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,993
i usually do my heavy soil items (washcloths,pillowcases,sheets) in hot to help remove soap residue and skin oils. im gonna do one of these loads in cold as a test, with a 30 min soak, to see if the washcloths come clean and pillowcases are free of sebum.
lets see...
lets see...
At work, (a fitness center,) our towels are washed in 80 degree water and rinsed in cold water. However, we have an ozone gas generator that pumps ozone gas into the machines while they are running, it bubbles up through the water from the bottom. That is supposed to disinfect the towels, and there haven't been any problems!
Gak
I just spent a week rewashing everything here because this was a cold-water household (and you should have smelled what socks and undershirts smelled like--blecch!!).
I also discovered that there was a temperature-limited DD Whirlpool attempting to provide me with 100º water as "hot." (*squeak-squeak-squeak* as the cold-water valve gets turned off...)
I just spent a week rewashing everything here because this was a cold-water household (and you should have smelled what socks and undershirts smelled like--blecch!!).
I also discovered that there was a temperature-limited DD Whirlpool attempting to provide me with 100º water as "hot." (*squeak-squeak-squeak* as the cold-water valve gets turned off...)
Damp and warm conditons, such as what are normally found in washing machines are perfect breeding ground for germs.
Laundry, by it's nature is contaminated with all manner and sorts of "germs". If proper laundry technique is not carried out, much of these germs not only will remain on textiles, but will coat the insides of the washing machine surfaces as well, (biofilm). Once this happens, it rather like having a sick person spreading about his germs. Everything that goes into that washing machine will become contaminated with whatever is growing inside the machine.
Remember also, washing machines, like dishwashers hold a small amount of water in their pumps after each cycle is complete. If that water has an active enough colony of germs, they will grow and breed, again to be spread the next time the machine is used.
Slime,mould, gunk, germs and all the rest one sees growing inside the washer, around the boot, between the tubs an so froth are what one is washing one's laundry in!
Because of the movement towards lower temperature washes, and or wearing of colours which cannot tolerate any bleaching, including oxygen bleach, we are seeing more and more "sick washing machines" out there. Hence these new products like "Affresh" (which is mainly oxygen bleach),to "clean" the insides of one's washing machine when it goes whiffy. Well if one has chronic bad breath, that usually means something is rotting in one's mouth or down the pipes, and just brushing one's teeth is not going to cure the disease. One has to get at the root cause.
Laundry, by it's nature is contaminated with all manner and sorts of "germs". If proper laundry technique is not carried out, much of these germs not only will remain on textiles, but will coat the insides of the washing machine surfaces as well, (biofilm). Once this happens, it rather like having a sick person spreading about his germs. Everything that goes into that washing machine will become contaminated with whatever is growing inside the machine.
Remember also, washing machines, like dishwashers hold a small amount of water in their pumps after each cycle is complete. If that water has an active enough colony of germs, they will grow and breed, again to be spread the next time the machine is used.
Slime,mould, gunk, germs and all the rest one sees growing inside the washer, around the boot, between the tubs an so froth are what one is washing one's laundry in!
Because of the movement towards lower temperature washes, and or wearing of colours which cannot tolerate any bleaching, including oxygen bleach, we are seeing more and more "sick washing machines" out there. Hence these new products like "Affresh" (which is mainly oxygen bleach),to "clean" the insides of one's washing machine when it goes whiffy. Well if one has chronic bad breath, that usually means something is rotting in one's mouth or down the pipes, and just brushing one's teeth is not going to cure the disease. One has to get at the root cause.
