Cold Water Washing: The Debate Goes On

[launderess]

Miele No Longer Produces "Boil Wash"

Units for the United States/North American market. The newest models top out at about 160F or a bit lower.

While one can still find some NOS Miele units that will go up to 200F or 190F, they can be hard to find as not all dealers still have any lying about in stock. Failing this there is always fleaBay or CL for used units.

My 1070 will do 200F, but honestly rarely launder anything at very high wash temperatures, and only use the "boil wash" setting when doing a washer cleanout.

Electric rates are just becoming to dear for routine high temperature washes. Indeed we got a little notice in our electric bill for this month that rates are going up again.

 

[logixx]

Persil 20°C cycle? So you have a Bosch washer, Keven? I know Bosch advertised a washer with a bottle of Persil gel on top of it an the dial set to 20 degrees.

Well, I'm not willing to give my clothes, which essentially only need refreshing / dusting a 2:00 wash. I understand that taking away heat means something else needs to be increased but still... no where on the bottle of Excel Gel does it state that one has to use the longest possible cycle to clean one's clothes in cold water. I think the detergent formula should compensate for the lack of temperature. After all, that's their claim: brrrrrliant cleaning in cold water.

Alex

 

[panthera]

MIELE W3845 WPS MedicWash

Still does 95C.
And high level wash.
And super-duper thousand rinses in real water.
Then spins at 1600.

You can buy them for domestic use and they are aimed squarely at the allergy plagued, cat/dog/horse owning, traditional diaper using/überhysterischer clean the house within an inch of its life crowd. Not that we know anybody like that around here....

I know when I got my newest catalogue (Stand 1Mai09, new one out next week!) this is the one I kept coming back to.

View attachment panthera++4-28-2010-04-10-5.jpg

 

[sudsmaster]

Kitchen Toweling

I keep three types of towels in the kitchen:

Fabric, for hands.

Fabric, for dishes.

Paper, for whatever (including cat hair balls).

I don't dry my hands on the dish towel.

I don't dry dishes with the hand towel.

The fabric towels get changed out several times a week, depending on usage, sometimes once or more per day.

The fabric towels get washed with other small whites in the Miele 1918 at 160F.

The paper towels are used for many things - ersatz napkins, cleaning up spills, etc. I find it helpful to stick a couple of folded (new) paper towels in my lunch tote for use on breaks and lunch at work.

 

[favorit]

Not only the Medicwash/Allerwash does boilwash ...

but whatever other Miele and whatever other european frontloader, even the 200 € el cheapo one

Keven the very only differences in that machine are the neverendig "cottons hygiene" and "easycare hygiene" that have a longer holding time of the target temperature and default high level four rinses. They have also regular "koechw/buntw" and "pflegeleicht".

I guess this model will be soon discontinued, cause they have no more worth to produce a model with burnt-in particular cycles.
New W5000 and W6000 machines have a different approach, where it is the owner to decide which cycles packages he/she will buy.

E.g. the W5928 has a default similar hygiene cycle as the Medicwash :

http://www.miele.co.uk/Resources/OperatingInstructions/W%205928%20wps.pdf

 

[panthera]

Oh, yes, I know -

I just found it interesting that Miele was taking a machine that is basically 25 year old technology and marketing it as something super-duper absolutely special to the hysterical "I'm allergic to life' people.
It is true, though, that the newest TLs ask you to reconfirm once you go over 70C, I used a neighbor's last week and it surprised me.

It makes sense that Miele would now offer the opportunity to chose your favorite programs. Wish they had years ago - My first Miele dishwasher would only do 75C washes with a pre-wash, rinse, wash, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, sanitary rinse and jet-agent followed by heated dry (three-phase, it rocked).

 

[iheartmaytag]

Why doesn't everyone switch to cold showers?

Because your winkie would shrink up, and your lips would turn blue.

 

[favorit]

Keven

true ... someone may be a bit germ-o-phobic .... but why are you so unfair with those peoople who **actually** are allergic to dust and dustmites? One has to try to deal with an ashma attack. They aren't paranoid ... they actually suffer and they have to follow particular laundering/cleaning prcedures to conquer a tolerable life.

 

[panthera]

Maybe

because I am a genuine Asthmatic as is my mother (the cursed red-hair gene).
So I understand the problem.

Reality is, however, that when you live in Germany, you encounter all these absolutely hysterical esoterical, natural-medicine, something-always-wrong with them people.

And their ills always "just" happen to line up with whatever the current "sickness du jour" is in the popular media.

So no, sorry. Having been taken to the emergency room not able to breath several times in my life (as in not just gasp, I mean not breath at all), my sympathy for those who really maintain laundry detergent with enzymes is bad for them but who then rub ox-galen-soap into their clothes with their bare hands (safe, because "it's natural") then I know Miele has found the perfect market.

Oh, and my second favorite: All my esoteric/left-leaning/whole-foods/Ökofreak acquaintances who are allergic to this, that and the other, but all smoke cigarettes...tobacco being "natural":

 

[lordkenmore]

"All my esoteric/left-leaning/whole-foods/Ökofreak acquaintances who are allergic to this, that and the other, but all smoke cigarettes...tobacco being 'natural'"

This reminds me of a woman I met last spring. She was heavily into gardening, and very heavily into organic produce, citing the health/nutritional benefits.

The irony? She smoked. Somehow the two worlds--organic and Marlboro Man--don't seem like a marriage made in heaven. She explained this away, saying she was a woman of contradictions. Then, the smoking habit came into her life earlier.

The thing that really puzzled me was that--despite her smoking--her health appeared to be pretty good. She's about 60, but looks about 40-something. She has energy and strength to survive a week job with long hours and minimal break time, and then garden all weekend long. (Just LISTENING to her gardening projects made me feel tired--and I'm younger that she is and have never smoked!) All I have to say is that either she's got good genetic history, or else there is some real health benefit in her organic carrots!

 

[sudsmaster]

Other natural nutrients:

Asbestos, Arsenic, even cyanide (apricot pits, bitter almond pits, and apple seeds)...

 

[vintagesearch]

well we all live by freedom of choice dont we?

i wash every color piece of laundry in cold! towels you name it! i do soak towels and give them an extra rinse i been doin that for years now havent had any icky loads. now whites and sheets hot hot hot warm i only use for rinsing whites hot wash warm rinse. its funny i do one extreme to the other i rarely use warm only for washing comforters thats it warm wash and usualy warm rinse. bet then again i use a bit if disinfectant and soak and 80% of everything gets an extra rinse so i guess i get a pass right?

 

[newwave1]

I've been back and forth with this for some time now. I generally wash at 30degrees for most things and towels and sheets @ 60. I wash at 30 because the steam function on my LG cannot activate on cold.

I have loads of detergents but generally use ariel excel gel and found exceptional results with 2 children under two! I myself am asthmatic so the steam function is really helpful for removing allergens.

The way i had seen it since i've been venturing into cooler water! lol...is that every 3rd or four wash should be at the maximum temp on the label to keep them from dulling. This is purely for my own piece of mind. Never have i seen ill effect on my clothes or machines from dropping the temperature. So i've stopped that now. I always leave the dear ajare after a cycle until i next use it. I run regular maintainance washes. I see it as a good thing.

30degrees has proven to work for me. I'm going to experiment with the no heat option in the lg shortly. i used it on my old machine but not since i bought the LG at the end of february.

Most cycles take about an hour plus in the lg and i've not had to use 2hour cycles to see results in lower temperatures. Everything smells really fresh and fills the house when i hang things inside. I recently bought the vanish hygiene powder which claims to remove stains and kill 99% of bacteria. But from speaking to a friend who works in hospital laundry this is all spin because hospitals use cool water and bleech and apparently conditions are sanitary enough if not overloaded...i don't know this for fact this is what i've heard. I'm still not sure i can bring myself to wash towels and sheets below 60 just yet.

Cool water for most things.....Gets my vote.

Darren

 

[panthera]

Darren,

Chlorine bleach is equally effective in cold water as well as hot.

My LG offers 1h41m for it's "30C" wash with extra deep rinsing and extra final rinse, spinning at 1200. There is an extended heating phase for the enzymes to do what they can at the temperature granted. I don't know - it just seems like I get perfect cleaning at 40C and our independent testing foundation says that 40C does kill the microbes and 30C doesn't without an extra disinfectant.

I chose LG over Miele back then because of the cat hair and dog hair not being removed by their (at that time new) honey-comb tub. In the meantime, you can get the traditional design again but, to be honest, LG strikes me as being just behind Miele in quality and ahead of the rest at any price point.

 

[newwave1]

panthera-i've always seen great results on 30 degrees even with baby food stains! I certainly find the steam helps with stain removal. your lg turns a 30degree cycle around about the same as mine! I have to agree i feel there quality is excellent! My lg is damn heavy! And i still would choose it over a miele. Not takin anything away from them. Just my personal preference! Darren

 

[dogboy44]

we tried cold water wash for ourselves for almost a year

and like the results of warm and hot water washes better.

 

[sudsman]

Warm water is more dangerous than anything else.

Test conducted by our lab showed us that warm water 110 to 120 the gave us load that the bacteria count was higher when it came out than when it went in. And after 30 mins the count was so high it could not be measured. But by adding only 2 0z of lcb on a 40 lb test load the findings were with such a low colony level the load could be considered santizied. Over 125 did a fair job and over 140 was very good. The load ran in cold water 85F was in the acceptable range but did have a higher colony rate of bacteria. but again the load ran in cold water with only 2 oz of lcb was consdiered santized by acceptable standards. If a santizer is used it DOES NOT MATTER what the temperature of the water is at all. As far as removal of soil any temperature worked as along as the machine WAS NOT OVERLOADED AT ALL! Even 1# of over load incerased the reject level and the bacteria count greatly. It should also be noted that tumble drying or flatwork ironing or sunshine drying also rendered the loads "santized"
[this post was last edited: 5/2/2010-16:53]

 

[panthera]

Not surprising,

But good to hear Thanks!

85F=30C
110F=43C
120F=49C
125F=52C
140F=60C

Goodness, how very strange is that - what a lucky coincidence that European machines and pre-1973 American machines all recommended 140F or warmer water for washing clothes hygienically....

It also explains why Stiftung Warentest was really not happy with the 20C detergents and said you had to get up to 40C for the TAED to kill the bugs.

 

[combo52]

WATER TEMPS FOR WASHING AND RINSING

I think the consensus is warm 85F -120F hot water is better for washing clothes. now a warm rinse is a total waste of energy. In fact if you have warm cold water supply of 70F or more it may be desirable to cool the water for rinsing. Colder water minimizes setting of wrinkles but even more so cold water rinsing greatly slows the growth of any bacteria left in the clothes and machine. I have seen the grossest machines that were used on the warm -warm setting for years on end they often looked like a science fair project all black and pink covered mold and mill-do.

 

[lordkenmore]

I like reading the results of these lab tests. Thanks!

It is sobering, since it appears that what I once thought might be hot enough really isn't.

I'm now wondering what potentially works as a sanitizer in the wash. LCB is the obvious answer, but I'm wondering if there is something that is color/cloth/washer safe that is reasonably easily obtained.

I'm now in the process of rethinking laundry policies. (I'm not a germophobe, but I do expect certain things like hand towels to be cleaner coming out than going in!)