Cold Water Washing: The Debate Goes On

[paulc]

Well.......

For some time I have been washing my light coloureds and darks at 30c with Ariel Actilift (Gel for darks ) and tablets(for lights and whites ). When this thread started I tried increasing the wash temp from 30c to 40c for darks and lights and from 40c to 50c for my whites and have been amazed at the differance. Everything appears so much cleaner and that is with the short wash option selected on my Miele, compared to the long washes I used to do in cool water.

 

[sudsman]

compared to the long washes I used to do in cool water.

I had done a number of test on that also. And found with out a doubt that 2 shorter washes remove far more soil and than does one long wash in fact a longer wash can actually make the load dirtier and contributes to gray and dingy work.

 

[launderess]

Detergent including those with phosphates (added or built in), only have limited ability to keep soils in suspension. Afterwards the filth starts making it's way back onto laundry as the detergent losses power.

For moderate or heavily soiled items it is therefore much better to pre-soak or wash and then do a main wash, rather than one long wash cycle.

Moderate to lightly soiled items seem to do fine at our house with just a "short" setting in the Miele, which still takes over an hour.

Launderess
IYAOYAS

 

[toggleswitch]

IYAOYAS?

'Splain Lucy............(please)

 

[panthera]

um,

I can't use those words here (though everybody else in the meantime does) so I'll tell you what it means in my neck of the woods - can't wait to see what Laundress means by them!

IYAOYAS

If You Ain't Ordinance You Are (word which upsets some here, use your imagination, Toggles and I am sure you will See How It Transliterates).

Funny, whether painting woodwork or washing clothes or frosting a cake or loosening up (I mean jogging, of course, what were you thinking?), less is often more.

 

[sudsman]

Oh Yes

one MUST be SO CAREFUL as to NOT upset the natives. The posion Darts are already drawn and the war drums are pounding! a bit like having to walk on eggs is it not, Just one or two can cause such a MESS!

 

[panthera]

Ah, Lee,

so right, so true.

So sad. Especially when the victim refuses to play the victim.

I wonder sometimes whether my clothes hamper isn't a breeding ground for microbes. What thinkest thou?

 

[launderess]

If You Ain't Ordinance You Ain't ****

Is the way one heard it! *LOL*

Was up late watching some doco on PBS about life aboard the USS Nimitz, and the phrase came up often enough. Seemed to be some sort of bonding tatic or whatever. Texted a friend who was in the military and he spelled things out. Still, nice catchy phrase. May have to change a few words though.

Miele Hygiene Spuler and Sagrotan:

Well Kevin, have been on the fence about seeing if one can order some of the Miele product to be sent. With the euro down against the dollar, now might be a good time! *LOL*

Both the Miele and Sagrotan product along with another (Castestan (sp?) made by Bayer), are quat compounds which have a long history of use in commercial laundries, especially those washing for hospitals, hotels, diaper services, health spas, etc).

Formulas vary and come in several flavours, but generally break down into several different products designed to control or kill germs and mildew on textiles, soften, and also leave a coating that will prevent or at least slow growth of germs and mildew on stored linen.

In the UK and Europe quat fabric rinses have also long been sold as part of feminine hygiene. Such rinses are used when laundering one's dainties after a bout with yeast infection. Other uses include laundering socks and or men's undergarments after such things as jock itch and athlete's foot.

As stated when another member announced Miele launched the product, it seems geared (at least according to what one has read on the Miele Germany website), geared towards laundry that cannot or should not be washed at very high temperatures and or with any sort of bleach (oxygen, or activated oxygen).

The last bit would include woolens, silks, Lycra and other man-made fibers that cannot withstand high heat, and coloured or dark clothing that cannot be bleached.

Maybe Miele USA will import the stuff for sale on this side of the pond. They do seem to be bringing in many of the latest versions of Persil, including the Almond Milk version of Persil Sensitive, so we shall see.

 

[launderess]

Persil Hygiene Professional

Sold in the UK is like many other "professional" detergents found in that country, the EU and anywhere else oxygen based bleaching at high temerpatures wins over LCB.

This version of Persil like other professional disenfection laundry detergents contains a high level of TAED (oxygen bleach activator), and oxygen bleach (usually today sodium percarbonate as borates are on the EU environmental hit list), that are certifed by various government health departments to provide total germ killing of wash. Usually temps have to be at least 140F and held for at least ten minutes. Although *think* Persil Professional UK states 40C.

The higher level of bleach activator allows this disenfection action and is much stronger than say the Persil one buys off the shelf.

Bleach activator and oxygen bleach combine to make peracetic acid, which is a powerful biocide and mildewcide (is this a word?). Indeed more powerful than hydrogen peroxide and is often used by brewers to clean their equipment as LCB is too corrosive.

Sold to those that do or are hospitals, commercial laundries and so forth, in parts of the world where near boiling wash temps for twenty minutes or longer, being able to take the wash temp down to only 140F, represents a huge savings in energy.

One can also find such detergents in places that sell to nurses,doctors or those who work in healthcare for laundering of uniforms at home. Like the EPA registration number on a good product sold in the USA, one needs to look for any sort of formal listing on these products to ensure they will do the job.

 

[panthera]

Laundress,

Write me at: [email protected] if you want anything. But speak soon!
Here's the advertising "booklet" on this product and why it is soooo important. To American eyes, it will look a bit dry.
To Germans, it practically screams you are a bad mother and endangering your children's health.

 

[panthera]

rest of booklet

It just reads like the world will end if you don't buy this now! Right now!
Even if you have to sell your first born child!
Buy! Or Die!

 

[hoovermatic]

I really got into cold water washing when I lived in Australia as it was such a novelty and saved a lot on electricity bills. They also had Cold Power which I had never heard of and loved the smell of. My white work shirts were very dirty around the collars and cuffs and smelled at the end of a busy shirt in the pub. They always came out white, clean and fresh from a cold wash. The cold water was a lot warmer there than here and I guess that makes the difference.

I have been hooked on Ariel Gel since it came out but have recently changed my habits. This is mainly based on cost. If one pack of Ariel Gel saves me £1.00 in electricity when washing at 15 degrees (which I can't because the lowest my machine goes is 30) and yet the pack itself costs me over £2.50 more than say a bottle of Formil concentrate and upping the temps to 40 or 50, then where is the saving? In addition, it seems I am required to by additional chemicals that kill 99.9% of all bacteria because I wash in lower temps (about another £5.00 a pack)

I have never used Formil before but it smells like Persil Small and Mighty Bio and seems to do an excellent job. Was recently using Persil Small and Mighty Non Bio and was VERY impressed with it on dirty whites.

 

[sudsman]

When useing a Quat Softner one MUST be VERY Careful

not to over use or you can cause your self some very major problems. Flo-Soft Special: A well accepted quaternary softener that provides ample softness at low concentrations. Lubricates fibers, protects tensile strength and reduces static.
This is a product I have used for years but if over used will cause rashes and and skin sores if used in correctly only 1 oz per 50# load. It is also VERY expensive almost $ 30.00 a gallon

 

[MrX]

Laundress: Quote "Ok, it is normal for some of one's personal "aroma" to remain on items worn close to the body and such, but again it should be a whiff, not a full walk-about odor. "

I wash a lot of stuff in quite short washes in a Bosch machine at 30 or 40C maximum cycle time about 40 mins (Easy Care), sometimes just 15 mins (super quick) and I can assure you there is absolutely no 'personal aroma' remaining on anything, even my sports socks.

1 scoop of Ariel powder + a slosh of Comfort pure or Fairy Concentrated softener and they come out absolutely fresh as a daisy and very clean.

I only use long cycles on very dirty clothes e.g. if there are bad food stains or on bed linen and towels.

 

[launderess]

MrX

Am happy your results were excellent, but do stand by my statement.

Depending upon one's laundry habits (how often things are washed), body chemistry and so forth it can sometimes be near impossible to render items "scent" free, regardless.

Have helped several friends and neighbors try to remove various scents from their bed linens (body and perfume), and even with a pre-wash and 180F main wash using a good detergent (Persil), and extra oxygen bleach one could still detect a slight "whiff". This is especailly true of persons who either slater themselves with scented oils,lotions or perfumes before diving into bed.

Suppose if one changed bed linens daily or at least every other day, and promptly laundered using hot water things might be different, but no one I know has that kind of time.

You do realise that we become accustomed to scent, even our own and often cannot detect.

Case in point persons who pour scent upon themselves because it it their personal signature perfume,and have been wearing it for ages. However they often think they do not have "enough on" because they cannot smell it on themselves. So they apply more.

 

[panthera]

Well, it makes sense

to me that there would be a certain aroma associated with a certain person.

Our local thrift shop washes everything they get quite well and, except for silk, some things just retain a certain feeling of someone. Especially some colognes.

Aren't there some molecular combinations which just plain are next to impossible to shift once they've happened? In a bad way, I'm thinking of Nytest and sweat, back in the day.

 

[sudsman]

mrX

I stand firmly with laundress on this one.. As a Certified Hospital Laundry Manager I CAN ASSURE you there are many odors that CANNOT be removed entirely no mattter how one washes the item.. Mortican Wear .Morgue linens ect NEVER drop the odor they have. That is why we cannot mix linens from some depts. Also Ambulance linen has a odor that most of the time lingers no matter what. I really think that if there was a way to remove ALL of the odors involved in laundring after 40+ years I or some of my fellow managers would have found it by now. If you think your odors are all gone try ironing with a steam iron I think you will be enlightened.

 

[launderess]

IIRC P&G At One Time Launched A Version Of Tide

That claimed to kill 99.5% or some such number of "germs" in laundry. IIRC it contained hydrogen peroxide, but wasn't sold as TWB.

IIRC, their claims were challenged by either the Feds or a consumer group, and the product seems to have vanished. At least I haven't seen the stuff in ages

 

[logixx]

They had a similar thing here in Germany, too. Found this recently in a store. Note how the price tag STILL says Euro / DM!!! 8-o


click on image to enlarge

 

[sudsman]

P&G At One Time Launched A Version Of Tide

Any item that claims to disinfect or santize or kill germs in anyway MUST be EPA registered.. they were not and could not get a registration number. even with all their money. All Quat Softners used in hospital laundries must have EPA registeration numbers or inspections will make you dump it. also 10% and above bleach must have registeration numbers too.