Comparing dishwasher sizes - U.S.A. & Brazil

[thomasortega]

Guys, you all now i'm about to move to the U.S. Until now, i'm researching the pros and cons of each city/region and I noticed some things i havent noticed before.

One of them, visiting a website called apartments.com and looking for apartments to rent, I saw several studios and 1 bedroom apartments that, for obvious reasons, have really small kitchens.

Who would live in such small apartment?or course only one or two people, never a family of four or more, right?

Said that, why do those tiny kitchens have a full size dishwasher? It makes no sense to me! how long would 2 people take to fill the dishwasher? 2 days? four days? a whole week?

What about the space that could be used for more cabinets or drawers? One of the apartments I saw was a studio in Los Angeles the kitchen was so small that I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw a full size stove plus dual sinks (and two garbage disposers), plus a side by side refrigerator and a full size dishwasher.

The kitchen was so cramped that one wouldn't walk freely in it.
Come on, a couple or somebody living alone would never store and cook so much food. And the kitchen had almost no more than a small cabinet above the sink and under it so, there would be no space enough even to store all the dishes for a full dishwasher load. Two disposers for two people... wouldn't only one be enough?

In chicago i saw another studio (really small again) that had a full size Whirlpool top load washer and a dryer.

I want to understand the factors that make landlords choose such huge appliances to such small apartments.

Are the compact models more expensive? Is there any cultural factor? any code that require appliances to be no smaller than a certain size?

 

[NYCWriter]

Thomas ...

... as a New Yorker living in a city where we arguably pay the most for the smallest homes, allow me to answer some of your questions.

-- Yes, entire families DO live in one-bedroom apartments. Usually the setup is Mom and Dad on a Murphy bed in the living room, and the kids get the bedroom (yes, boys AND girls).

-- In fact, real estate has become so expensive it's not unusual to see 3 20-somethings sharing a studio apartment these days, or 4 or even 5 to a two-bedroom, given that you can't find a decent studio in Manhattan for under $2800 these days, or a two-bedroom for under $4,000.

-- I share your view about dishwashers. I'm fortunate to have a large (by Manhattan standards) eat-in kitchen (I have 20 cabinet doors if that gives you a rough idea of the space I have), and in the gut renovation that was underway when I bought this place, the previous owner was installing FULL-SIZED appliances (refrigerator, stove, and dishwasher). In my size kitchen they look perfectly appropriate. But I'm one person, and believe it or not I have yet, after 7 years, to turn that brand-new dishwasher on even once. I just cannot see the point of running a dishwasher for one.

-- Something I don't even want to think about is the fact that singles or couples are actually letting dirty dishes with bits of rotten food sit and accumulate for days inside the dishwasher before it's "full" enough to run. Do they not understand this attracts roaches???

-- Smaller scale dishwashers tend to be high-end. Full-sized are not. There's a big cost difference. That's the most likely reason why New Yorkers with tiny kitchens install full-sized dishwashers.

-- I am just as perplexed as you over New Yorkers' love affair with dishwashers. Which is why I'll eventually be swapping mine out for a CLOTHES washer, which is what I painfully need.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Matt answered your question

But I will second.
Though I don't live in NYC, as a Mid-Mid Westerner I can still tell you that cost it the reason. "Regular" sized appliances are more plentiful, and hence cheaper to purchase. You go buying smaller, specialty appliances, such as a 18" wide dishwasher and you will pay more than what a full sized model costs.

Last year I bought my sister a small counter top dishwasher for $218 from Overstocked.com. It handles her single needs, but in answer to the second part of your question. If a single person household has a full sized machine the 1: Wait for a full load (which could take a week). 2: Wash partial loads. 3: Forego the machine all together and use it only when company is entertained or not at all.

 

[washdaddy]

I'm single with a full size dishwasher-

Full size appliances are the norm for the most part across the country. I will say that I wish there were more cabinets in my kitchen but I have learned to live with what I have since moving into this apartment.
All the appliances in my kitchen are full size and that seems perfectly normal to me. The DW is run when it's fully loaded which means that it's normally every couple of days. Food shopping is done about once a week and stored in the frig. until needed whereas in Europe (let's say) they have smaller frig's and thus shop more frequently to pickup what they need because that's what they are used to.
As for the washer and dryer- in my apt. they are full sized although they are a stacked unit top loader, I definitely wouldn't want anything smaller. You can always put a smaller load in a full size machine. You can't fit a full size load in a compact.

A compact DW costs just as much to run as a full size, same goes for the washer. In the end comes down to give me the full size with load size options.

 

[thomasortega]

Thank you guys, these answeres helped me understanding a little bit more.

So not only the price (smaller being more expensive), the efficiency is considered and also the people's customs like shopping for groceries after a long time and needing more space in the refrigerator/freezer. That's interesting.

It's being hard to choose a region/city to live. My biggest concerns are, in this order 1) weather 2) cost of living 3) rental prices.

I love NYC and that was one of the options but, the rental prices are really prohibitive. I saw even a 9000 dollar/month studio that was smaller than my dining room. Well, it's right in front of the Central Park and the view is breathtaking so, the location is really expensive. Of course I'd never accept paying all that money for a rent. I'd prefer to put 1000 dolars more and pay for a mortgage in a cheaper area. At least after some time the property would be mine.

I'll be a legal permanent resident (H visa holder) but, for personal reasons, I don't want to buy any property until I get a citizenship (aprox. 5 or 6 years). So that's why I want to rent a place to live. It makes no sense spending a lot of money renting a huge apartment or a house or an expensive studio. It's temporary, so I just want a roof above my head, not luxury. This extra money i can save and then buy a big house or a nice apartment after I got used to the city and know all the neighborhoods to choose better. Then i won't care if it's expensive or not because it will be permanent. Maybe I can even move to another city! Who knows? and I don't want to be tied to a property.

I think it's time to get used to cramped kitchens LOL

Now I understand the small 3 bedrooms apartment Electrolux offered me during the months I spent in Augusta was actually a huge apartment. Most of the studios I saw in many different cities are up to 20 times smaller than my apartment here.

It made me understand another difference. In the US, apartments are much smaller than houses. here, the apartment buildings are like a pile of houses. And the newer apartments are even bigger. My apartment here is a medium class apartment and has a total of 13 rooms (three very big bedrooms + a huge master suite) and it has 820 square meters of private area, considering the four parking spaces. The master suite bathroom is so big that when the apartment was built, instead of a regular bathtub, i changed the original project and installed a hot tub that fits 4 people. Now with the real state bubble in Brazil, it's worth between 1.3 and 1.6 million dollars.(I paid for it less than 100 thousand dollars in 1997). I don't even want to think how much would an apartment like mine cost in the US. LOL

 

[NYCWriter]

I'll tell you ...

… assuming it's not a "marquee" location (overlooking Central Park, for instance), a modern 13-room apartment in Manhattan would *start* at around $10 million.

And that's without parking. And unbelievably, quite often without your own laundry room.

 

[thomasortega]

These prices are scary.

 

[iheartmaytag]

In my area

You couldn't find an apartment that size. You could, however, find a stand alone house with acreage for around $5k a month.

 

[foraloysius]

No problem to find an apartment here for around €1000.- per month.

 

[davey7]

Chicago is cheaper still. But we haven't built large (2-3 bedrooms plus dining room, study, maids room, etc) apartments in any large number outside the DC area (and some in Chicago and NYC) since the 20's. Land and construction costs have been cheap and the bias has been towards single-family houses and against living in urban areas.

 

[thomasortega]

@Davey

Chicago is one of the cities on the top of my list...

I noticed the prices over there are reasonable and I also have a couple of very close friends from my city that moved there 15 years ago.

Also, there's a company that always invited me to join their team (but i always refused) and now, If I accept, it will grant me the H-1 visa.

The only thing I don't like about chicago is the weather.

 

[davey7]

If you can't handle the cold...

If you can't handle the cold, you will suffer and be very miserable here.* I know you can handle the summer heat since we have a subtropical climate during parts of the summer.

* My dad has a friend from north of the arctic circle and Chicago is the coldest place he's ever been.

 

[whirlcool]

In Chicago look for a unit in a 2 or 3 "flat" building. The apartments are usually very roomy with full sized kitchens and maybe a laundry room on the enclosed porch or in the basement. You can find these in the suburbs too. These buildings were built from the 1920's-1940's. Each floor is only one apartment.

The layout is as follows:

The windows above the entrance are for the stairway to each apt. You also have a rear door and stairway. Sometimes open, sometimes enclosed depending on the building.The bump out in the front is the sun room or solarium directly in front of the living room. Then next you have a large dining room. In the back you have the kitchen. The bedrooms are on one side of the apt. from front to back. They usually are two and three bedrooms.

 

[davey7]

2-3 Flats

Basically they are a stacked bungalow. Living room, maybe a second parlor if pre-WWI, dining room, then hallway with bath off it and kitchen. The bedrooms are all along the other side of the building, one behind the other. I sure hope there is no laundry in an enclosed porch, that thing will shake like all get out. They are generally not all that spacious in my opinion (I grew up in a six flat, all of our rooms were bigger than the standard 2/3 flats I've been in or lived in). If you get a jumbo (i.e. on a wider than standard lot - 25'x125' in Chicago) you get better layouts, often a second bathroom and more space, often what I call a zig-zag layout, with the public rooms on opposite sides of the building. See the link for a plan.

The Three-Flat

I was going to start with the two flat, but a dearth of images, and more especially plans, stymied that plan. They will be covered ad nauseu...

chicagoapartment.blogspot.com

 

[whirlcool]

stacked bungalow

You are right, I never thought of that, but bungalows have pretty much the same floor plan as the 2 & 3 flat buildings have.
My brother once had a unit in a 3 flat in Oak Park. It was very spacious, but didn't have a hallway. The bedroom doors opened right into the living spaces. One in the living room another in the dining room and the smallest bedroom off a kitchen.

I think you probably would do ok with a wringer washer on a porch. Since that porch collapse in Chiacago a few years ago they have beefed up the construction requirements for such porches.

Do they have these syle of buildings in other cities, such a NYC? I've never seen this style outside of Chicago.

 

[davey7]

Uniquely Chicago

That's unmistakeably a Chicago style. Boston has triple deckers which are similar, but the image above could ONLY be in Chicago. In Oak Park they'd be bigger (though not always) since lots are bigger and it was a "fancy" suburb. The "best" three flats and six flats are on wider lots and have the bedrooms off corridors (in three flats especially) and the living and dining rooms side by side in front with stairs at the side (and entrance through an English basement, aka raised) so all the public entertaining space is up front. You'll sometimes even find this in more modest buildings with the dining room in front behind the living room.

Most porches have been rebuilt lately unless they were enclosed. I've never seen laundry equipment on one - they're considered fire escapes primarily. There was always a laundry in the basement unless people rigged it up in a pantry like we had. If they building is a gut rehab it's forced into a closet somewhere with a furnace.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Housing & Transportation

I spent 3 weeks in Sao Paolo and Atibaia (a suburb) about 10 years ago. I can tell you that all the apartments and houses I visited were palatial by the standards of the northeastern U.S. I daresay most apartments or houses you look at in new York City, Boston, or Chicago (from what friends have told me) might be smaller than what you are accustomed to.

Another issue is transportation. In both Sao Paolo and Atibaia the bus, subway, and train systems were much more extensive than those in NYC or Boston. Even in the inner suburbs (or even the Bronx and Queens in NYC), public transportation is designed to bring people into and out of the city center, NOT to travel from one point to another within the inner suburbs. My point is that in the northeastern U.S. one might might not need a car to go to work, but would need a car to go grocery shopping, visit friends, etc. And of course, rent is higher the closer one is to trains, subways, express buses, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[thomasortega]

Apartments in Sao Paulo are much smaller than apartments in my city.

Well, São Paulu (the city) is almost like NYC. Every single inch costs a fortune.

In my state, apartments tend to be 5 times bigger (in area). To explain better, a laundry room in an apartment in São Paulo barely fit a washing machine.... I have 14 here.

I can serve a meal for up to 15 people in my dining room table and they won't feel like sardines in a can.

Anyway, no matter if i live in a huge apartment or house or a tiny studio... it will be only my pinscher and I.

Davey7, I found some interesting properties in Skokie. Prices are much lower there, aren't they? As you live in Chicago, what can you tell me about the region?

 

[whirlcool]

Skokie is a predominantly Jewish suburb. Lots of Jewish survivors of the holocast live there. It's a rather nice place. Nice and quiet. Convenient to the train that goes downtown. Just north of Skokie is Kennilworth, Lake Forest and Winnetka. That's where the big money of Chicago lives. It's known as the North Shore.

No matter where you look in Chicago always look for the safest neighborhoods. Some parts of Chicago can be as bad as Detroit.