Comparison of agitation - RotoSwirl vs. RotoFlex

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That choice cost me, Eddie!

I'm still learning the in's and out's of YouTube. I originally posted that video with a little Manhatten Transfer but due to the ownership of the song, YouTube allowed the video but muted the audio track. Not good! I took it down and redid the video with the current music BUT since Sony owns rights to that, the video is up BUT for reasons beyond me, it's blocked from playing in Germany! Oh, it also can't be played on iPod touches just in case I'm travelling into Germany... (rolls eyes!) just the same, thanks for the complement!

RCD
 
Dear Gyrafoam
I never heard about washers that damages clothes....!!!!!
My grandmother haves a Kenmore with rotoswirl agitator and her old clothes looks like new ever since!
I know of some bed sheets purchased in 1969 and still used regularly wich are like new as when she bought ... the same for my clothes .. are like new after many years ...
I have a coin-op Maytag.
 
My vote is RotoSwirl. I also agree with peterh770 the surgilator is one of the best agitators. Whirlpool needs to bring it back and dump the dual action agitator.
 
My vote is for the Rotoswirl. I was raised with one, and always loved the amount of turnover it had. My mother always underloads her washers, so that helps alot too.
David.
 
Kenmoreguy89

Every time your clothes get washed some fabric damage occurs. Its almost inescapable when using a machine on anything but a "Hand-Wash" cycle. Even then, a miniscule amount of wear occurs. If you don't think there is any fabric damage occuring, just stick your hand down at the bottom near that agitator and see how gentle it feels! And even a front-loader relies to some degree on the friction clothes create rubbing against one another to help clean them.

Don't forget though, some people still do their wash by hand and pound it on a rock or use a scrub-board. I laughingly say the Surgilator is the electric version of pounding clothes on a rock! The same can be said for many other straight-vane agitators.

Most people do not think of the amount of fabric damage that occurs to their clothes whenever they wash them.
One great sales-pitch was to mention that "all the GE's Filter-Flo did was to show all the fabric damage that was occuring" with each load. Then you would point to the floor and say something like "the next time you have a load of clothes to wash, stop and think for a moment about how much money you paid for each garment. Then total that amount to get an idea of the money invested in each load."

Then you would mention something like "the Maytag Power-Fin agitation is so gentle, you won't have to clean it but once at the end of the wash-day" or some such. Worked every time.
 
I'm stil thinking of that is impossible that a washer could damage clothes!!!!
remember that agitators are made with a particular material wich avoid the friction with clothes, and about the friction between cloth and cloth i think it is not so high to may cause "damages". And remember that the friction is even more reduced with wet clothes.... a washing with an AGITATOR washer "damages" less than an hand washing!!!!.... and please don't tell me about front load washers wich are a scam!!!
 
Issues, issues, issues....

It is very elementary, my dear Watson. An agitator washer beats clothes clean. The straighter the vanes, the more beating occurs. Beating causes damage, maybe not visible to the eye, but it is there. There is also chemical damage from additives, but we're not discussing that here.

Every time you clean your dryer lint screen, you are cleaning the damage that occurred in the washer that did not get flushed away or caught in whatever lint filter may be inside the washer. Some washers will cause more linting depending on their agitator/speed/time. More heavily loaded machines will cause more linting as the load has less room to move and remains in contact with the "thrashing blades".

Therefore, a heavily loaded Roto-Flex machine will probably cause more lint because the 6 vanes thrash away while the load struggles to roll over and get out of the way. The Roto-Swirl has the built in ramps which helps roll over, along with its flat paddles to do the cleaning. My guess is that more lint will be found in the dryer after drying a Roto-Flex washed load than a Roto-Swirl washed load. But IMHO the Swirl is just as damaging because of its size.

So when we look at ALL agitators, we probably find that the ramp agitators of Hotpoint, GE, Easy and Westinghouse are quite gentle with their suck down/burp up action, while the straight vanes of Maytag, Speed Queen, GE and Norge thrash up a good amount of lint.

Last, why do you think us aficionados don't like direct drive WP/KM Thrashmore washers -- straight vanes, faster agitation speed, auger forcing the loads down?

Frontloaders may be a scam, in your humble opinion, but if you have one that uses the right amount of water and tumbles at the right speed, it beats all.

Except for Frigidaire pulsators, but all knew that already...
 
Agitator Comparison......

After watching the video twice..... it's hard for me to declare a winner.

In my opinion, both, the Roto-Swirl and the Roto-Flex had the same amount of turnover, with the Roto-Flex having JUST A NUDGE more. But not enough for me to declare it a clear winner (I'm talking about a game of centimeters here). But I guess just like others have already said here, each agitator has its advantages and disadvantages due to the differences in their design.

But right now, I'm going to say that it is a virtual draw.

HEY LEBRON!!!!! WHERE'S YOUR 1971 LADY K (or Jon1077..... maybe your 1970 Kenmore 900 will do)???? WE NEED TO BRING A VARI-FLEX AGITATOR INTO THIS EQUATION.....

Then and only then, maybe I can declare a winner. Because right now, I can't.

@ Gordon...... What do you think??? Which is better??? The Roto-Swirl??? Or the Roto-Flex???? And do we need to bring in a Vari-Flex???

--Charles--
 
Thanks for this RCD!

Okay, this is lenghty, even for me, but I'm thinking that perhaps this opens the door to a larger test of standard capacity Kenmores & Whirlpools. As far as I've counted, we've got 9 different agitators in these machines. What comes to mind are the original bakelite versions of the Surgilator and Straight Vane, the plastic later versions of both (the straight vane is considerably different), the original Roto-Swirl (pregnant) and the Super Roto-Swirl, the Roto-Flex, the Vari-Flex, and the Dual-Action. Yes, there was a version of the Dual-Action used in standard machines that has a different auger than the large cap. versions.

I'm almost ashamed to admit that I have machines with all these, so I am thinking this would be a cool test to do on an identical laundry load. Perhaps this summer...

Anyway, to answer RCD, since he asked my opinion....I have mixed feelings about the two agitators and I'm not sure I'm as well informed as some of the other responders on here. From a visual perspective, the Roto-Flex in Andy's test seems to be rolling-over the load better than the 'Swirl does, and I have seen much the same results in one of my machines at home which came standard with a Straight-Vane but I but I have swapped in a Roto-Swirl for fun once in a while. The action with the Straight Vane is very similar looking to that in the Green 900 machine. The ramp in the 'Swirl clearly does a lot to alter the 'flow' of the clothes, but I debate whether that's good or not.

I will offer this two-part conclusion - The Roto-Flex was heavily advertised and Sears apparently had a lot invested in it from an image standpoint. Claims of 15% cleaner wash are in several two-page adds in 1965 and 1966 catalogs. Within a few short years, the agitator was gone. There must have been something wrong (maybe a design flaw?) because Super Roto-Swirls, which debuted in 1963 were in production through the end of the belt-drive machines, unchanged. That's about 24 years. If the Roto-Flex was a success, it would have hung around more than four or five years.

The low-end Straight-Vane, which had similar agitation to the Roto-Flex, was introduced in 1967/1968 and lasted in production until 1984 or so, also a long run. BUT, that agitator was not used in anything other than BOL to MOL machines (except 24-inch) so Sears must have known it had limitations, and the Roto-Swirl picked up where the Straight-Vane ended in the line. Until the Dual-Action came out, the Roto-Swirl was the top dog in standard agitators. My conclusion basically is that even though the visual roll-over of the Roto-Flex and Straight Vane are fun to watch, Sears knew what they were marketing enough to leave the Roto-Swirl higher on the heap than those two, long term.

One thing perhaps worth noting - one of the '65 Lady Ks I owned until recently had scrape marks on the bottom of the basket just like the Avocado 900. That can't be good, possibly that sheds light on what caused the demise of the 'Flex?

Gordon
 
Super Roto-Swirls, which debuted in 1963 were in production through the end of the belt-drive machines, unchanged. That's about 24 years.

If that fact doesn't indicate a clear winner, nothing does.

For a lot of people it wasn't about maximizing rollover or capacity, but rather performance vs. gentleness for reasonable sized loads. The Super Roto-Swirls had a lot of cleaning power yet were very gentle on clothes.
 
Videos

I've been thinking about hooking the '70 Kenmore again. I have it off to the side since I was tinkering with the GE. I'll try to pull it back out this next week and do a comparison video using the vari-flex with a queen sheet set and a couple of towels thrown in. I will say that a sheet set alone turns over very quickly and I would imagine the additional towels wouldn't slow it down much. Tangling would be an issue with towels and sheets perhaps.

I do have the one video on youtube of my Kenmore doing a permanent press cycle and the vari-flex on one click lower than maximum.

Thanks to my friend Austin down in Texas, I now have three different agitators for the Westinghouse TL that I want to do a comparison video of. The blue ramp, straight 5-vane, and the straight 3-vane. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me!

Great videos of the Kenmores by the way!

Jon
 
Yes, every old '65 era LK with Roto-Flex I've ever seen had those scrape marks.

Just as a reminder---the Vari-Flex is a straight-vane agitator. Also, I do believe the marketing people would stop at nothing to create some/any gimmick that might provide an edge in sales over a competitor. So I don't think that just because the plain Whirly/Kenmo straight-vane agitators were found on BOL or MOL models means that they had lesser cleaning ability or limitations. However it can be said the Roto-Swirl design is not as likely to stir up quite as many sudz as a straight-vane at full water level. And especially in the old days when detergents (and all soaps) were mostly VERY high-sudzing this may have been a consideration -----and all you had to do was wave a box of the old Tide, Cheer, Fab, Duz, Super-Suds,Wisk, etc. over the top and they would sudz-lock!

I have always had the opinion that the Pregnant Roto-Swirl was more aggressive than the Super Roto-Swirl. Could it be because it took up slightly more area? And I've always believed that any straight-vane was more aggressive that any Roto-Swirl.

PeterH-----that is a great assesment. I would add to that, that I am of the opinion that the ramped-agitator in the old Westinghouse machines was brutal. It was great for heavy cotton fabrics, all kinds of denims, etc. But, I think not very easy on Delicate fabrics even on the Gentile cycle. I always thought it to be the most aggressive ramped-agitator ever. The three ribs along the edge of each fin added plenty of friction I'm sure!
 

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