CR Washer Tests January 2007!

[spinout]

Let's not forget that CR/CU is in the business of selling magazines, non-profit or not. I remember and prefered CR when they were more conservative and less advocates of blatant consumerism.

I, too, wish there was more consistency in their testing and ratings, especially over time. It would be nice if they would rate on a scale that included meaningful benchmarks. Is this thing really better than what I own, be it 5 years or 25 years old? In the tests cited in this thread, if they were to standardize the tests, e.g., were to add additional time to the lowest ranked washers (or shorten the wash time of the highest) and use equivalent concentrations of detergents (in ppm) then we would see very different results. In many cases, things seemed to be ranked just for the sake of ranking them.

That being said, they are, after all, CONSUMER reports. I think the bottom line is that people would rather buy a magazine the generally encourages them to buy new stuff than one that tells them to be content with the perfectly adequate appliances that they already own, or to shop used. This is just a reflection of the extreme consumerism that pervades this country.

Accordingly, I still find CR useful as a tool, but not as the final word on most items.

 

[tomturbomatic]

But when they rate things, it seems like they never look underneath to see how one is built better than another and which ones look like trouble waiting to happen.

They have to test appliances on the Normal cycle because that is the cycle that the government bean counters use to get the efficiency rating on the yellow and black tag. That is one way that they tests are standardized.

 

[exploder321]

I almost bought the Chineese GE's..

CU rates my affinty lower and i totaly disagree, esp. if you use the stain clean option or a warm/warm wash...

Plus using the correct HE soaps and such also helps

 

[neptunebob]

Spinout, I don't find Consumer Reports as useful as it used to be. Years ago, even 10 years ago the articles told a lot more about the products and the ratings had descriptions of the features. Also it used to be kind of "grouchy" for thrifty people with "Do you really Need this product?". But now it just seems like a magazine that wants you spend money on big SUVs, big screen 3000 dollar televisions (to show the same crap you get on TV today). They now test wine, may be nothing wrong with that but they would have never dreamed of testing in the past. Oh, wait, there is still some thrifty thought there, recently they said that an 800 dollar GE range cooked and roasted as well as 5000 dollar Viking. But mostly the magazine wants you to spend, spend, spend. Make me wonder if George Bush (Shop till you drop!) has anything to do with this.

 

[user 12105]

CU is definitely not what they used to be. I guess with only a few American companies left producing major appliances...the differences seem to be very small.

 

[rp2813]

Wine Testing

Bob, that CU wine testing is a joke and a great example of how they've strayed. It's wine tAsting after all, nobody's tastes are the same so that's just a load of crap from them.

I think what they've done is decide that a lot of their subscribers are buying more sophisticated products and so they are now reporting on those types of things. But it seems to me that they stopped looking at the bigger picture at least 10 years ago.

 

[tumbler]

CU

I take Consumer Reports with a large tablespoon of salt these days. According to them, the '91 Ford Aerostar I bought new was more or less a piece of junk; I sold it for $1400 when it had 348,000 miles on it (after rebuilding the transmission at 342k). Likewise, when I replaced it with a Chevy Astro van, C.U. dissed it; it's got 110,000 miles in 3 years with no problems at all. Back to washers; they gave good marks to the "Frigimore" machine I bought in '99. I also recommended it to both my brothers, my ex and a friend. Within 6 years, the tub bearings in four of them had burnt out. I replaced it with a Whirlpool Duet this past May, and I couldn't be happier. C.U. gave it the highest marks of all F.L machines-I hope they're right this time, so far they seem to be. If they gave the LG the top rating for '07, I guess they haven't tried to get parts for it, or from everything I've heard they would reconsider. These days, I'll check C.U. to see what they say, but then I will use forums like this to find out what peoples' real-life experiences are with a given product. That's what led me to buy the Duet pair, more than C.U.'s rating. I also called the parts places to price circuit boards-since they are the most likely part to need replacement in today's machines-and Whirlpool's came in as most reasonable, not to mention easily available. That's what settled the issue.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Not to stray from appliances, but CR always pushed the 6 cylinder engine in the Toyotas I have purchased with 4 cylinder engines and I have always had plenty of power and have not felt the roughness they said they found with the 4 cylinders. In a time when oil conservation should be a prime concern for all citizens on planet Earth, they are pushing larger engines in small cars which just is not responsible.

 

[oxydolfan1]

Yes, ditto with the 6-cylinder Hondas.

 

[vintagesearch]

ditto turbomatic i agree with you 100% no 1000% thats why consumer reports i listen to them on certain aspects of things NOT entirely sometimes they dont make sense.

 

[sudsmaster]

I have a similar bone to pick with CR and their car reviews. Their review staff's concept of an ideal car is one that doesn't sound or feel like it's got a motor in it. They constantly ding various models for having "rough sounding" motors, but for many car fans, it's the sound of the motor that is one of the most rewarding things about driving.

The "Chinese" GE front loader: There's a heck of a lot right about that machine. Big, perfectly horizontal drum, internal water heater, big door, big capacity, clear glass door, prewash capability, etc... But it sounds like GE simply dropped off the initial drawings and specs for the washer and never followed up on customer complaints. Perhaps they need to listen and come out with an updated model or revision, such as one that resolves the spin-hesitation issue.

The "Mega-Miele"... Anyone have any more details about this? First I heard about it! My Neptune is rapidly approaching the expiration of its seven year extended warranty. If it dies, I have an old Frigmore that can take its place, but I'll also be looking for a modern front loader. If the new Miele is big enough and still has a door hinged on the right, then it might be a great replacement, damn the cost.

 

[danemodsandy]

CR hasn't been the same since Betty Furness died. For someone who started out as a minor movie actress (she's in the Rogers and Astaire film "Swing Time"), she sure was one tough lady. Her consumer consciousness began when she was the commercial spokesperson for Westinghouse back in the 1950's- she was the lady who stroked the refrigerators lovingly and said, "You can be SURE- if it's Westinghouse". Within a few years, she discovered something Westinghouse hadn't told her- or consumers. The highly touted "frost-free" models she'd been paid to pitch consumed something like three times the electricity of regular models. That shock got her thinking in consumerist terms, and she eventually became head of CR.

I agree totally with those who have pointed out that CR has lost its focus on value. One of the great things about the magazine in its heyday was that it regularly stressed the virtues of doing without. Products that don't have every last bell and whistle are often better value than TOL products to begin with, and often last longer because there's not so bloody much to go wrong. As much as I love keyboard LK's, I have to admit that Kenmore's 800 machines were a much better buy for the average family.

I no longer consult CR before buying; I'm too irritated by the changes I've been seeing lately.

 

[danemodsandy]

P.S.:

One of the things that irritates me most about the "new" CR is the lack of focus on the environmental costs of consumerism. Cars- and quite a few major appliances- take more energy to manufacture than they'll ever consume over their useful lives. Yet CR heavily stresses replacement of "inefficient" cars and appliances with the newer models that have lower energy consumption. For people who drive a lot, or who use appliances hard, that might make a certain frail amount of sense. But it doesn't make sense for many people. I drive less than 100 miles a week. What the hell do I need with a new Prius instead of my trusty old Volvo? And if I did that, what good would I be doing the environment? By continuing to drive my current car, I'm leaving tons of iron ore in the earth, and I'm not ordering up the creation of hundreds of pounds of plastics and other nasty compounds.

I'm especially bemused by CR's heavy emphasis on front-loaders these days. While FL's have their virtues, they're far too expensive for many people to consider, both to purchase and to have repaired. TL's are proven, cheap technology, and I wish CL would pay more attention to those that are both frugal and long-lasting, so that lower-income people would know which machines would make their limited funds go furthest.

 

[tolivac]

I can go along with Danemodsandy:why replace a car or appliance that still has many years left in it and is giving satisfactory service-this is stupid advice.also remember many older cars and appliances are easier and cheaper to service.I think its best for the envioronment to keep these older cars and machines going rather than dumping perfectly good equipment into the landfills thus making it harder for Mother Earth.I am also a TL fan-just can't justify the purchase of a FL machine(and its longer cycles)and unknown reliability in some new FL brands-esp LG-some of the horror stories about getting bad LG machines fixed scares me-and sounds like some of these newer machines could become krusher bait long before older ones are worn out.At some of the FL prices-would be actually cheaper for me to take my clothes to a laundramat or a cleaners.

 

[oxydolfan1]

I really have to wonder about the $300 Admiral washer they are touting as such a value.

I'm sure it DOES wash well....but is it related to the new Maytag "Legacy" washers, or those Amana models, who, on trash day, sprouted up like spores throughout my neighborhood?

It's as if they accumulate loads of information, but never seem to connect the dots anymore...

 

[gansky1]

The Admiral for $300 probably (was) a NorgeTag. Those will soon be gone and the Admiral will be another DD Whirlpool. Evidently, reliability of those value choices is not a factor for CR.

CR certainly doesn't do any reliablity testing anymore, relying on reader surveys for frequency of repair data. CR used to do reliability tests on machines (of all kinds) and would report their findings along with the other tests, now there is barely a mention if they have a problem with a machine. It was a good way for the consumer to get some idea of how the machine could be expected to last - giving true value for their dollar. Do they separate the front-loaders from the top loaders in this data regurgitation now? Even among top-loaders, look at the differences in brand's own lines - Whirlpool has/had the direct-drive, Calypso, Cabrio, etc. which are all very different animals mechanically and the reliability or lack of it can skew those numbers.

 

[washerman8]

I Have To Agree....

Gansky1,
I have to agree with you. A couple of years back, CR stated the Maytag (model SAV4655AWW) was a good buy and I went out and purchased it. That washer didn't last but 2 years. The Kenmore washer and dryer I gave my mom is still kicking strong after 5 years.

I will never trust anything CR says about products anymore.

 

[oxydolfan1]

Maytag

"That washer didn't last but 2 years....."

A DISGRACE! (Grrrr!)

 

[pturo]

I got a Haier FL for my summer home, for under 400 bucks. I figure it will save energy, be gentle on the well and septic, not be used year round, and when it goes to the place of all broken things, it goes. It washes well, takes a long time, but it is in a vacation home. Start it up, then go have a few Coronas and a good book on the dock. Hang the white sheets on the line and watch them sway in the south breeze. At home, a Maytag A408 and a DG906, which are on their 4th decade,in a city with public water, sewer and not a lot of time to spare. Point is, there are many choices for many water and space requirements, budgets and end uses. What works for some, are quite unacceptable for others. PS, I would never try to wash a King comforter in any domestic machine, it would never circulate or rinse correctly.

 

[wash&where?]

Just like a washing machine or a car, a Consumer Reports subscription is a purchase. If we purchase a washer and it lasts only 2 years, then odds are we will not purchase that brand of washer again. Consumer Reporst should be treated the same way for those who feel it is less than what it used to be. The only way to show them at CR is to not renew the subscription when it comes due. I did that five or six years ago and I do not miss it. If I happen to be in the grocery or Walgreens and pass the magazine section, then I might pick it up and glance at an article. But then I place it back on the rack and move on. I find that is a real way to save money, by not purchasing their "poor quality product" IMHO. Maybe they need to rate themselves.

 

[neptunebob]

They do need to rate themselves..and they won't like the

I have to find out who is running Consumer Reports. They were started by a labor union in the 1930's, it is just in the past 10 years that they tell people to buy big things like 3000 dollar televisions.

Maybe Cvbrnr (sorry if I don't have that right) could explain to me - Is a digital TV 10 times better than a regular television? I see them at Sam's Club and they don't look THAT much better? Is there Any Show worth watching on a digital TV? It's just like when they came out with stereo in TV - Why? So we can hear the balls go around in the Pennsylvania Lottery or the pins go down on "Bowling for Dollars"? I also heard that digital television shows every detail on a person - which just makes more work for makeup artists and hairdressers to make the actors perfect.

Like Les Nessman said on WKRP in Cincinatti, I think this is all a plot - To get people to spend big money on unnecessary things. Looks like it's time for me to cancel Consumer Reports too. But it actually seems like losing a old, wise, consumer friend.

 

[launderess]

Well in a few years you are not going to have much of a choice as to digital or not, by government order analog signals are to be phased out. Rather the network television stations have to give up that end of the spectrum and use the digital licenses they won ages ago,but were playing both sides of the fence.

Supposedly all televisions and recording/broadcasting equipment sold after this year or next will have to have a built in decoders for the digital signal. There also is some talk about making low cost set top boxes available for those on limited incomes/elderly.

L.

 

[tolivac]

Supposedly Feb 2009 all analog TV broadcasts are to be shut down.Don't think the FCC is accepting any more extensions from stations to delay the closure of analog TV broadcasting.TV stations were filing for extensions on the closure date in order to purchase digital equipment and purchase-lease a space on a tower or build one to hold their new digital broadcast antenna and house the digital tranmitter.This equipment is VERY EXPENSIVE for stations to purchase and implement.And then what to do with all of that analog equipment-under the new rules it can no longer be used.At present some broadcast suppliers still sell the last of analog equipment.At present some stations are running digital and analog broadcasts-at the cutoff date they will cut off their analog broadcasts and turn over the analog frequency over to the FCC for reassignment to other services.most digital broadcasts are on the UHF band and some are on High Band VHF,Ch#7-13.In small markets stations have to purchase this new equipment on their own-and in major markets stations may be assisted by networks or very large owners to purchase the new digital equipment.It can cost up to 50$mil to requip the station in a large market.

 

[danemodsandy]

Upcoming Digital Conversion

The upcoming conversion to digital TV is scheduled for January 1, 2009. On that date, the analog signal we've used for over sixty years will go dark. The analog tuner (known as an NTSC tuner) on your TV will no longer be able to receive anything- there will be nothing for it to receieve, since that bandwidth will be re-allocated for other, non-TV purposes.

If you have cable or satellite, your present TV will still work through the cable or satellite box.

BUT- If you depend on broadcast TV, you will need one of two things to receieve the new digital signals (known as ATSC signals). You will either have to get a converter (already available), or you will have to get a new TV. Some new TV's are already equipped with ATSC tuners. Since March 1 of 2006, all TV's 24 inches and larger have been required to have them when built. On March 1 of this year, the requirement extends to all TV's of every size, and to all equipment with a TV tuner built in, such as VCR's and DVD recorders.

The thing to look for is the phrase "ATSC tuner" in the specifications. Other phrases, like "Digital Ready", are meaningless ad-speak- every TV ever produced is digital-ready if you connect it to cable or a converter. Also, the requirements for an ATSC tuner apply to sets PRODUCED after the dates I mentioned, not to all sets SOLD after those dates. If you buy a new TV you intend to use for broadcast after March, be sure you're not getting leftover stock.

Some TV's specs say that they have an "NTSC/ATSC tuner". That's fine- it just means that the tuner is capable of picking up today's analog signal, AND the digital signal required after 2009.

So, it's really very simple. Look for "ATSC tuner" when you're buying, and you'll be fine. If you have cable or satellite, you'll be fine anyway.

P.S.: There is one thing about getting digital on broadcast that is going to be annoying. If the signal is disrupted in some way, you will not get "ghosts" or a fuzzy picture like you do today. You will get nothing on that channel. Digital is all or nothing, it seems.

 

[danemodsandy]

Correction

The analog cutoff date is February 1, 2009. Guess they didn't want the teeth-gnashing and wailing that would result if they cut off the procrastinators during New Years' football games.

 

[Unimatic1140]

What I find quite interesting are the discrepancies between the ratings of otherwise identical models.

It pretty much makes these results completely irrelevant unless they explain exactly why these discrepancies occurred, unfortunately no one else but us will even notice them.

 

[oxydolfan1]

I'd venture to say that CU's two seperate reviews of almost identical Kia/Hyundai hatchbacks will definitely raise a few eyebrows among its readership, and perhaps whatever resulting hubbub may prompt CU to reevaluate their selection criteria for tested models of all products.

Then again, I'm still waiting for the Easter Bunny to show up from last year....

 

[irishwashguy]

I would like to think that they are reliable.........

But just like Maytags, they also went South.My mother still has the same Maytag H drive that she bought in 1987, and has not plans to get rid of it.It squeeled when it would stop, I asked the Maytag guy, I fixed it, it stopped.Very simple. My sisters center dial maytag leaked badly. I took the front off, saw the leak, took some duct tape, never had a problem at all.COVERSLY, with the advent of outsoursed parts, who really knows who is making what anymore.Maytags are reallty Norge, Roper is Whirlpool, and the GE is really a piece of @#%$!!! I myself would take what they said like anything else that I buy, i get a second opinoin. Sure, I like to read it for fun, but really have they ever had some of these things in their homes to use over a peroid of time? Do you really think that a GE is going to bake and roast as well as a Viking? Hell NO!! I think that it is buyer beware after my expiereice with my Maytags that were broken before I took them out of the box.That is why we have lemon laws for appliances on the books in OR.Three strikes, and you get a new appliance by law. CR has lost its integrity I think.
And about the Miele rating. I have one because i got fed up with all of the stuff that,at the time, i saw as being cheap, and made of plastic.I wanted metal. I wanted mt Old Frigidaires back, in lou of that, I have what I have. PS, I am not an SUV person at all I think that they are too big for me to see out of. I really do not like GM either( I am a Honda guy) I have had four of them. Caddy Esc would be, at least in Portland, Or, associated with drug dealers or old people . My two cents and 5 pents.

 

[rp2813]

Who owns the tried and true Maytag technology now?

Agreed and I've said it before here, CU is not what it used to be and for the same reasons people have posted above. They don't focus on reliability anymore. Oxyfan nailed it above with his comment on Amanas kicked to the curb. I bought my Amana pair based on CU having rated the washer #1. What a joke. That thing is on its 4th belt now in 9 years--I do not overload this machine--and its spray rinse is so short it accomplishes next to nothing. CU used to note things like that in their tests but not anymore. I know some will say that if the washer has lasted 9 years, that's good, but it has cost me in maintenance plans since I don't have the spare time and am not familiar with the mechanics of the Amana. Just replacing the belt is no small task and takes an experienced repair man a good hour. On my old center dial Maytag, just a nudge of the motor would get the old belt to drop and the new one slapped on.

Interestingly, it seems that my Amana washer borrowed some of Maytag's technology but it's not nearly as simple a design. Who owns the patent on Maytag's reliable center dial machinery now? Why aren't they using it anymore? It seems to me that it was such a simple and reliable mechanism that it wouldn't be expensive to produce. If I could get a top loader with a tub the size of my Amana's but with the mechanics of a center dial model, I'd probably buy a machine like that instead of the Duets I've got my eye on.

Thankfully, the guy who came out and replaced the belt yet again on my Amana seems to have done a good job and it's running smoothly and I dare say fairly quietly--for now. He also managed to quiet down the dryer somewhat so maybe both of these machines won't need to be replaced as soon as I thought. But I really hate them and can't wait to unload them as soon as I've got the funds to replace them. No thanks to CU. They deserve to be boycotted.

 

[neptunebob]

Actually I do believe that CU was right about the $800 GE oven baking a cake as well as the $5000 Viking - those professional style ranges are mostly hype, just as I believe the 3000 dollar TVs are not 10 times better than a regular television. That remark about the ovens was the only sensible thing they said in the December issue. Now, does anybody here not watch much television? I have limited my TV watching and get more done in life so no, I do not need to spend that much but I am disappointed that Consumer Reports says I do and they will get cancelled! Is anyone else here going to cancel their subscription?

Another question I have for Tolivac: If this equipment is so expensive for the stations how do they pay for it? Is this why we see as many as 10 commercials in a row at night and will there just be more commercials coming? Already too many, and around here the worst commercials are made by car dealers to get people to lease SUVs. What has America turned into, a nation of big spenders of junk?!?

Sorry for the rant, just frustrated about CR, which used to be my favorite. I might write to Consumer Reports about this, will let you all know when I do.