Hi, Ben! Believe me, those homeowner costs never stop. Plan to tuck away several thousand dollars every year for upkeep/replacement. I bet you'd fall in love with a SQ front-load pair when the time comes to replace your top-loader.
CU Report on Washers, May, 2016
- Thread starter tomturbomatic
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lordkenmore
Well-known member
I have to admit CR lost me many years ago--probably about 1990. I was interested in audio equipment, and rather appalled by the way they seemed to think it was all the same. IIRC, they even bashed Sony ES (premium Sony line) because it didn't measure any better than the entry level Sony. Um...did anyone think about trying Sony ES under real world conditions? That is, actually using it in a living room to play a recording?
Although I still thumb through CR at the library sometimes...
One other issue: times change. We now have the Internet. While I suppose there is something to be said, say, for CR's testing program of detergents, I personally find more value in real world experiences. Yes, there may be people who don't know what they are talking about. Also "your milage may vary." And all that. But when I read something credible (here, for example), about a laundry product, I take it seriously.
Although I still thumb through CR at the library sometimes...
One other issue: times change. We now have the Internet. While I suppose there is something to be said, say, for CR's testing program of detergents, I personally find more value in real world experiences. Yes, there may be people who don't know what they are talking about. Also "your milage may vary." And all that. But when I read something credible (here, for example), about a laundry product, I take it seriously.
CR
Has dumbed down to the point of uselessness. They were always biased, case in point - GE Filterflo was the best cleaning washer available for pet owners and they blasted it off the market simply because they could.
Once, though, they actually took their reading public seriously. Today? Worthless trash.
There's more useful information to be found here than in the entire last 30 years of CR.
Has dumbed down to the point of uselessness. They were always biased, case in point - GE Filterflo was the best cleaning washer available for pet owners and they blasted it off the market simply because they could.
Once, though, they actually took their reading public seriously. Today? Worthless trash.
There's more useful information to be found here than in the entire last 30 years of CR.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
That's Interesting
that SQ makes a washer with a built in heater in for the Chinese market. Then you had pointed out that they are 240 volts? I forget the voltage numbers here in the USA. I know regular outlets are 110V, then you have the range/oven which is 240 or 220? I can't remember, same with the dryer. No one would have to worry about wash times with built in heaters if we have the 220 or 240 V connection for our washers. I'm the same with my Duet's built in heater. I would get a new SQ in a nano second for my next washer if it had a built in heater. When the outside of the clothes washer gets as hot as a dishwasher, you KNOW those clothes are getting clean.
And there was a topic a while back where the discussion turned into heaters in washers will be a thing of the past and will eventually be phased out because of the energy usage and detergent technology and the push the get folks to use cold water. There were people in the discussion who believed this would be the case.
that SQ makes a washer with a built in heater in for the Chinese market. Then you had pointed out that they are 240 volts? I forget the voltage numbers here in the USA. I know regular outlets are 110V, then you have the range/oven which is 240 or 220? I can't remember, same with the dryer. No one would have to worry about wash times with built in heaters if we have the 220 or 240 V connection for our washers. I'm the same with my Duet's built in heater. I would get a new SQ in a nano second for my next washer if it had a built in heater. When the outside of the clothes washer gets as hot as a dishwasher, you KNOW those clothes are getting clean.
And there was a topic a while back where the discussion turned into heaters in washers will be a thing of the past and will eventually be phased out because of the energy usage and detergent technology and the push the get folks to use cold water. There were people in the discussion who believed this would be the case.
option for a very, very long wash tumble (60-70 minutes)
It's interesting there's only a difference of 3 minutes between "light" and "normal soil", but ten times that is added for "heavy". I'll have to see what the difference is on my machines.
Question: Do you think an 60-70 minute wash tumble would have more benefit than doing a pre-wash, then main (heavy) wash? If so, why?
Is detergent technology such that it can release soils and keep it suspended for that entire hour long wash time?
What about wear caused to the clothes by tumbling for that long (if that extended cycle is used regularly)?
Granted I rarely generate really dirty or stained clothes, but a <span style="font-size: 12pt;">60-70 minute main wash just seems excessive to me.</span>
To stay on topic, I haven't looked at CU for a few years now. I had a subscription a few years ago, but found, for the most part, I had little interest in the items they were reporting on.
I'd love to have a new SQ FL washer, but with the line up I have below, I can't exactly justify spending the $$$ for one.
Kevin
P.S on heaters... I now have 2 washers with built-in heaters, a Kenmore He5t and Maysung (Samtag?) Neptune 9700 (about 3 months now). But on average I only use the heater in the He5t a couple times a year. So far I've only used the heater in the Samtag once during it's first cycle to clean it. After continuous tumbling and heating for nearly an hour, I got bored, figuring that was long enough, cancelled the cycle and reset it to rinse & spin. FYI... just to bore you, this is my "daily driver" line up (L to R KM He5t, KM He3, Maysung 9700, LG WM1832).
It's interesting there's only a difference of 3 minutes between "light" and "normal soil", but ten times that is added for "heavy". I'll have to see what the difference is on my machines.
Question: Do you think an 60-70 minute wash tumble would have more benefit than doing a pre-wash, then main (heavy) wash? If so, why?
Is detergent technology such that it can release soils and keep it suspended for that entire hour long wash time?
What about wear caused to the clothes by tumbling for that long (if that extended cycle is used regularly)?
Granted I rarely generate really dirty or stained clothes, but a <span style="font-size: 12pt;">60-70 minute main wash just seems excessive to me.</span>
To stay on topic, I haven't looked at CU for a few years now. I had a subscription a few years ago, but found, for the most part, I had little interest in the items they were reporting on.
I'd love to have a new SQ FL washer, but with the line up I have below, I can't exactly justify spending the $$$ for one.
Kevin
P.S on heaters... I now have 2 washers with built-in heaters, a Kenmore He5t and Maysung (Samtag?) Neptune 9700 (about 3 months now). But on average I only use the heater in the He5t a couple times a year. So far I've only used the heater in the Samtag once during it's first cycle to clean it. After continuous tumbling and heating for nearly an hour, I got bored, figuring that was long enough, cancelled the cycle and reset it to rinse & spin. FYI... just to bore you, this is my "daily driver" line up (L to R KM He5t, KM He3, Maysung 9700, LG WM1832).
Speed Queen also make heated versions of the new models for the European market. Heater rating is 4.8 kW.
1 hour wash tumble
Both of my Mieles have an option for approximately one hour wash tumble. It's called Extended on the W4840, and Intensive on the Little Giant. The manuals recommend it for "laundry with normal to heavy soiling or stains". Without the option it's more like 1/2 hour. I use the long tumble almost all the time, because I see better results with it. Haven't noticed excessive wear on textiles.
Both of my Mieles have an option for approximately one hour wash tumble. It's called Extended on the W4840, and Intensive on the Little Giant. The manuals recommend it for "laundry with normal to heavy soiling or stains". Without the option it's more like 1/2 hour. I use the long tumble almost all the time, because I see better results with it. Haven't noticed excessive wear on textiles.
Pre-wash + Wash Or One Long Wash
*Do not wash in dirty water*
For generations and still largely true today a pre-wash or soak then wash will give better results than one long wash cycle. Granted this is for mainly whites/colourfast loads that are badly soiled stained.
Granted modern detergents are vastly improved over soap in many aspects on wash day. This is especially true of anti-soil redeposit properties; but still long wash cycles give dirt a chance to land back on fabrics.
Of course the benefit of using a cold or cool pre-wash or soak before a main hot wash is the removal of certain soils (such as protein)that would be set/cooked into fabrics by the high temperature of main wash.
Historically and perhaps even today commercial laundries had several changes of water. This often accounts for the "whiter than white" results of their laundry.
*Do not wash in dirty water*
For generations and still largely true today a pre-wash or soak then wash will give better results than one long wash cycle. Granted this is for mainly whites/colourfast loads that are badly soiled stained.
Granted modern detergents are vastly improved over soap in many aspects on wash day. This is especially true of anti-soil redeposit properties; but still long wash cycles give dirt a chance to land back on fabrics.
Of course the benefit of using a cold or cool pre-wash or soak before a main hot wash is the removal of certain soils (such as protein)that would be set/cooked into fabrics by the high temperature of main wash.
Historically and perhaps even today commercial laundries had several changes of water. This often accounts for the "whiter than white" results of their laundry.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Launderess's talk about prewash reminded me of something...
One point in favor of heaters is the claim that they can help stains that might be set by heat. Some with relevant experience say that slow heating of the water means the stain goes bye-bye before the temperature hits a point where it's hot enough to set the stain.
But...more than once, while dreaming of Speed Queen, it seems to me that a prewash can fix the problem if one is faced with stains that might be set by heat, and a desire for hot water. A prewash to fix the stains up, and then a thorough wash. Of course, one uses more water this way... But in my case, most of what I need is just freshening. I don't have little kids generating mountains of "Oh @#$@#$! What did they do to this shirt!?!?" loads of laundry...
Another reason I'd really like a heater for, however, is sanitizing of laundry.
One point in favor of heaters is the claim that they can help stains that might be set by heat. Some with relevant experience say that slow heating of the water means the stain goes bye-bye before the temperature hits a point where it's hot enough to set the stain.
But...more than once, while dreaming of Speed Queen, it seems to me that a prewash can fix the problem if one is faced with stains that might be set by heat, and a desire for hot water. A prewash to fix the stains up, and then a thorough wash. Of course, one uses more water this way... But in my case, most of what I need is just freshening. I don't have little kids generating mountains of "Oh @#$@#$! What did they do to this shirt!?!?" loads of laundry...
Another reason I'd really like a heater for, however, is sanitizing of laundry.
When I had my Lady Shredmore, and even the Fridgemore without heater, I always did a cool/tepid prewash or presoak for badly stained whites/kitchen towels/napkins. Now, I simply wash in hot or Sanitize; select stain treat with steam and that heats the water from luke warm to 130 or 155 degrees, which ever I prefer. I even had very badly bloody stained pair of kakhis and all I did was do the same above, but only heat to warm. Detergent for these types of loads is always Tide He with Bleach Alternative. Even I was impressed with the slacks because they'd sat stained for over a week. Only once in the nearly 5 years I've had the Duet have I needed a prewash.
One long wash vs. prewash + wash: For me, it comes down to the amount and type of soil you're dealing with. If it's a load of muddy gardening clothes, then a prewash is certainly in order. For loads of heavily-stained kitchen whites, I've found a long profile wash (gradual heating of water from warm to very hot) works great. I use liquid chlorine bleach on those loads, so an extra rinse must be added.
My previous machine (a Frigidaire front-loader) had a prewash option, but it couldn't be used in conjunction with a profile wash (Sanitize cycle). Better results were had using the Sanitize cycle alone. The new washer, a Maytag 8100 has no prewash option, although one can select Rinse/Spin cycle in lieu of that.
Tumble washing in a front-loader is very gentle. I've had no problems with excessive wear to fabrics using a very long (60-70 minutes) wash. The top-loading impeller-based Frigidaire Immersion Care washer's 65-minute wash (using Stain Treat/heaviest soil level), on the other hand, was absolutely brutal to fabrics.
My previous machine (a Frigidaire front-loader) had a prewash option, but it couldn't be used in conjunction with a profile wash (Sanitize cycle). Better results were had using the Sanitize cycle alone. The new washer, a Maytag 8100 has no prewash option, although one can select Rinse/Spin cycle in lieu of that.
Tumble washing in a front-loader is very gentle. I've had no problems with excessive wear to fabrics using a very long (60-70 minutes) wash. The top-loading impeller-based Frigidaire Immersion Care washer's 65-minute wash (using Stain Treat/heaviest soil level), on the other hand, was absolutely brutal to fabrics.
A few answers
Voltages in the US (as in Europe) are all over the map.
The nominal US household current is 120/240 single/split <span style="font-size: 12pt;">φ</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> .</span>
But we run at 127/254 in our end of Cheyenne. Nearby, a much larger city runs 130 regularly while the county in between runs at 117 (and, according to their spokesidiot, is going to stay there).
Europe settled on a 400v 3φ system, with 230V for low amp. consumers, but with tolerances that can put it way below or way above (bigclive talks about that). This harmonization brought the 220V of mainland Europe and the 230 of the UK into line. Theoretically.
Many vintage European FL tumbled the clothes for well over 120 minutes between the pre-wash and the main wash before doing rinses and spins. They didn't wear the clothes out. The detergents were specifically made to keep soil in suspension for longer wash periods.
A wash cycle which goes from cold to 45 or 50 or 60 degrees (C) with a slow build up to 45 works very well with enzymes, including today's 'cold' wash enzymes (which still don't do shit in cold water - the reason cold water washing is useless).
Protein based stains 'set' quickly in warmer water, as Laundress has explained.
There's not a reason on earth the typical US 240V 30 Amp outlet couldn't be used for a heated washing machine using enough water to actually clean and we'd all be better off if they'd throw out the totally failed HE TL design.
Too little water, too cold of a temperature and you have dirty clothes and filthy mold, slime and microbe infested machines.
Oh, and speaking as a German for a minute, oxygen bleach can clean many stains we believe can only be removed using chlorine bleach in the US.
[this post was last edited: 5/18/2016-09:28]
Voltages in the US (as in Europe) are all over the map.
The nominal US household current is 120/240 single/split <span style="font-size: 12pt;">φ</span><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> .</span>
But we run at 127/254 in our end of Cheyenne. Nearby, a much larger city runs 130 regularly while the county in between runs at 117 (and, according to their spokesidiot, is going to stay there).
Europe settled on a 400v 3φ system, with 230V for low amp. consumers, but with tolerances that can put it way below or way above (bigclive talks about that). This harmonization brought the 220V of mainland Europe and the 230 of the UK into line. Theoretically.
Many vintage European FL tumbled the clothes for well over 120 minutes between the pre-wash and the main wash before doing rinses and spins. They didn't wear the clothes out. The detergents were specifically made to keep soil in suspension for longer wash periods.
A wash cycle which goes from cold to 45 or 50 or 60 degrees (C) with a slow build up to 45 works very well with enzymes, including today's 'cold' wash enzymes (which still don't do shit in cold water - the reason cold water washing is useless).
Protein based stains 'set' quickly in warmer water, as Laundress has explained.
There's not a reason on earth the typical US 240V 30 Amp outlet couldn't be used for a heated washing machine using enough water to actually clean and we'd all be better off if they'd throw out the totally failed HE TL design.
Too little water, too cold of a temperature and you have dirty clothes and filthy mold, slime and microbe infested machines.
Oh, and speaking as a German for a minute, oxygen bleach can clean many stains we believe can only be removed using chlorine bleach in the US.
[this post was last edited: 5/18/2016-09:28]
