Curiosity about other countries

[brasilianguy]

Hi friends, i'm very curious to know some things about other countries culture and habits.
i'll begin with 2 curiosities, and them i'll write more as soon as i'll remember them...

1º curiosity- I'd like to know how much cost an avarege energy bill, of a family house that normaly uses dishwasher and dryer there in USA, couse, here in Brazil, if u use dishwasher and electric dryer for everything, the bill will be unpayble. Well, i need to say that here, we use electric shower, and don't have central water heating system, the shower instantly heats it's oun water (for u to compare, our shower have the same potence of an american dryer, about 6000W, and is considered the major part of the energy bill)
im my house, with 4 people, we spend about 250KW for month.

2º curiosity - here in brazil, all the loundry soaps use enzimes to clean clothes, so, that's why all of our washers have soak cicle (mine for exemple have many choices of time for soak, since 15 min to 2hs), and as we don't have hot water, they have only cold water inlets and washes with cold water. just the most expensive washers have internal auto heater and you can imagine that a top load washer in a high water level takes till 3hs to heat the wash water to only 45ºC (113ºF) and spends lots of energy.
well, i wanna know.... how the american soaps works????

thanks to help me to know more about the first world, as i didn't have the luck to born in one!!! hehe...

 

[toggleswitch2]

Energy bills in this country vary WIDELY by region and climate. Electricity costs vary widely, as does the availablility of natural gas and fuel-oil, which in some areas are MUCH less expensive than using electricity. Incoming water temperatures also vary widely... so the cost of hot water fromm the taps varies widely too. In hot Florida) a 20 gallon (80L +/-) hot water heater (very small) is sufficent. In my area one so small would not provide ANY hot water).

So even if all of these things within this country WERE homogeneous(uniform)--they are not--, one can not compare the cost of energy in one country to another unless (relative) salaries and taxes can also be compared. Translation: $75,000 of income may sound like a great deal of money outside the U.S.A but within it, it is nice but not "rich". In Brazil this may allow for a palace with servants.

Even between my home in NYC and my partner's 115 miles (185 km) away in the next state there are HUGE differences in energy costs, housing costs and food/clothing costs, taxes and employment/job opportunities.

250 kwh /month here is minimal and I think it can be reached within even a small aparmtment with air-conditioning, where a the lanlord/building owner provides heat and hot water (read: he uses oil or gas) as part of the rent, and one cooks with natural gas.

I used to pay $350 per month combined for electricty and fuel ooil per month all year round,so that is $4,200 per year for energy. Don't forget my climate is both hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Mechanical climate-control is a necssity in the winter and a near-necessity in the summer.

Thomas if everyone had a dryer and a dishwasher in your country the cost of elecricity per unit would GO DOWN. Let's look at it this way- the applied overhead costs of running the electrical grid/network woudl be divided over a much larger consumption base, and they would be smaller on a per-unit basis.

Stated antother way: Cellular(mobile) telephones were expensive at first because the subsrciber base was small and the fixed ovrhead costs had to be divided amoung a "few" users. Todays there are so many subsrcribers that the huge "switch"(computer), antennae and network costs are split over a huge subsrriber base.

 

[toggleswitch2]

oopsie you are not Thomas. Sorry

 

[brasilianguy]

hahaha, i'm really not Thomas, i'm much nicer than him, hehehe... (he's a net friend of me here, but is a little boring sometimes!!) Thominhas, i love u!! hehe...

well, back to the post.... huuumm....it's really very diferent, couse here, even being a big country the costs don't vary this much and all use the same, eletricity to heat the shower water..... just the newer apartments have hot water lines for gas heater (i never seen an oil heater)
air conditioner here is very uncommun in homes too, we use many fans. air conditioner is more used in offices

but, some things still bothers me, like, the central heater of the Macaulay Culkin's family house in the movie Home Alone!!! (is that by coal?). I know it's a bit old, but that's the house of my dreams!!!
is that heater still usual? and how that works??!!

 

[brasilianguy]

Ah, i forget, my name is Vinicius, but u all can call me Vinny!!!

 

[passatdoc]

California

We have a small to medium sized house. No airconditioning, not really needed near the ocean. Gas: water heater, clothes dryer, furnace, range (oven plus cooktop). Electricity: lights and fans and outlets, but no large electric appliances other than the washer (the dryer pulls some electricity to spin its drum but heating is gas).

Electric bill: $35-40 per month

Gas bill: $30-45 per month in heating season (December-March).
$15 per month outside of heating season.

Electricity in California is expensive, about 14 cents per KWH. In other parts of the country, electricity can be as low as 6-8 cents per KWH. Natural gas costs here are relatively low. As a result, people here tend to favor gas water heaters and dryers. There is less impetus for gas ovens, because they have to vent their heat and take in fresh air to supply oxygen to the burners. So the lower cost of the fuel is offset by venting some of the heat back into the kitchen (whereas an electric oven is sealed and doesn't vent off heat).

In some parts of the USA, electricity costs half of what it costs in California, and in those areas, you will see more large electric appliances: water heaters, dryers, ranges. I believe electric dryers are 75% of US sales and gas dryers only 25%.....but in California that ratio is most likely reversed.

Some US homes do not have gas lines. Conversely, sometimes a house will have gas lines in the water heater and dryer areas and no 240V outlets (I have 240V where my dryer sits, but not 240V for a water heater or behind my range, only gas pipes and 120V at both locations.

 

[rapunzel]

Australia is not dissimilar to the US. Different parts of the country have different economic, social and climate conditions. The further south one goes the more variable the climate gets. Though, mostly we don't have the types of seasonal extremes that can be experienced in parts of the US, Canada and northern Europe. Hence we don't need to fortify our homes to the extent that is necessary somewhere else.

When I live in the tropics my energy bills are usually quite cheap. There I live in a 20 square three bedroom home, on my own. Everything is electric, I have solar hot water and get by with ceiling fans - I hate airconditioning. Our mean day time temperature in winter is 77 degrees Fahrenheit. At night it may drop down to the mid fifties. In summer it rarely goes above the high eighties. The billing cycle is three monthly and I get by on approx. AUD 280.00 (approx. USD 176.00). Employment opportunities are limited and mainly based around tourism and hospitality, which pay notoriously low wages. Rents and houses are cheaper than in our state capitals, but gasoline, victuals and consumer goods are more costly, as they have to be shipped from our major industrial centers in the south. In Cairns we do have a farmers' market on weekends and there are farms in the area that sell fresh produce to the public. It isn't unusual for them to have an unmanned stall with an honesty box.

When I am in Sydney I live in a 50 square home that I share with quite a few other people. There we use gas and electricity. The mean average day time temperature in Sydney is approx. 78 degrees in summer and 60 degress in winter. The farther away from the ocean one gets, the colder it is at night. During winter parts of Sydney can get frost during the earliest hours of the morning. We use gas for cooking,hot water and heating of the main floor and we heat the three top floor bedrooms with electric oil-filled and convection heaters. The basement has a large wood burning fireplace. Again, the billing cycle is three monthly for both gas and electric. Our average gas bill is about AUD280.00 (USD176.00) and electricity AUD460.00 (USD290.00). In winter we keep the electric heaters running all night and our bill exceeds the $800 mark (US$500.00) for those three months. On top of that, I may spend $300 (US$190.00) on firewood. We spend between three and four thousand dollars on energy per year (i.e. about US$2000). I will be installing solar panels very soon. Right now I can recoup half the installation cost via a government rebate and have already filled out the paperwork to change to an electricity supplier that will buy any excess power that I produce.

Sydney is Australia's largest city and the cost of living reflects this. There are more job and earning opportunities than in many other parts of the country. Though, different parts of town offer different bargains. For groceries, consumer goods and tradesmens' services it pays to shop around. In my suburb everything is marked up by as much as 30% in comparison to the next couple of suburbs down the line. If I want something built or fixed on the house, many tradies will slap on a surcharge. Hence, I am better off doing my shopping two or three suburbs away and making sure that I get three or four quotes before anyone does anything around the house.

Anyway, I've gotta rush now. Hope this gives you a small snapshot for comparison.

Cheers

rapunzel

 

[dj-gabriele]

Very interesting question!

...as every question regarding energy and habits around it!

In Italy (is this a developed country? lol) energy prices are among, if not, the highest for a nation part of the OCSE.
Retail electricity prices are on the averange of 0,23€ per KW/h that translates to 0,30$ or 0,21£ per KW/h.
The averange bill for a 4 people household can be as low as some 90€ per billing cycle (usually 2 months) for a use of 2500 KW/year and a 3,3KW power contract to some 250/300 € for high consumption (some 5000KW/year) and 6,6KW power contract; low consumption families benefit of reduced rates.
Heating is most of the times gas (methane but also GPL in big canisters that last the whole season are quite common, expecially in areas not served by the gasducts) or diesel. Coal is virtually not used while some rural areas enjoy the use of wood and wood pellets.
The heating bill for my flat (noth Italy, outside averange temperature of -5°C and 130sqm of heated surdace at a costant 21°C from october to may) is of 2400€ per year.
This doesn't include the expense for water heating that are of around 40€ per month (appliances all use cold water).
Another situation can be the south (110sqm flat, outside temperature of 5°C, inside at 19°C as at my parents) combined heating and hot water is of around 1200€ per year, both using methane.
Electric heating, save for small portable heaters and radiators is not used as it would be prohibitive to run it.
Finally clothes dryer are an expensive to run luxury as a single load can cost even 1€ to dry.

Totalling the energy costs it can be:

Noth Italy, continental climate, 4 people, averange insulated house, averange energy consumption of 3500KWh/year

2000€ for heating (methane)
800€ for appliances electricity
400€ for hot water (methane) to 800 (electric)

South Italy, mediterrean climate, 4 people, medium insulation house, same averange consumption of 3500KWh/year

700€ for heating (methane)
800€ for appliances electricity
150€ to 500€ for heating water (note that in the south electric water heaters are more common)

Finally the averange EER of the air conditioners installed in Italy is 3 KWt/KWe and depending on the usage they can double the electric bill like nothing.

2° As far as I know virtually no machine since the 80s has a soak cycle and all except a few liquid detergents have enzymes (one example is Henkel's BioPresto Sensitive that is supposed to be a mild detergent to sensitive skins, the powder version has the same enzymes as Dixan, the Italian version of Henkel Persil).
But most washing machines heat water starting from cold and have a "profile" wash, even my ill fated cheap Whilpool, and with a running time of one hour and a half in averange the enzymes have all the time to do their job.

 

[thomasortega]

Vinny

Te pego la fora... ;p

____________________________________

Toogleswitch

"...if everyone had a dryer and a dishwasher in your country the cost of elecricity per unit would GO DOWN..."

This would be a wonderful dream, but surely isn't the true brazilian story.

If everyone had a dryer and a dishwasher, the BR president, Mr. Lula (ridiculous, stupid, alcoholist, dumb, lier, etc, etc, etc) would say we're having another power crisis and increase the price of electricity using the excuse they need more money to build more dams.

Or maybe he would create a new politic project, like the school aid, family aid, or Zero-hungry.

Now would be the plug aid, or dryer aid, maybe dry aid.

Actually, the President of Brazil needs a Band aid... ON HIS MOUTH!

 

[iheartmaytag]

Here in the Sunflower state

We sit on some of the largest natural gas fields in the world, so we pipe it in from Oklahoma (go figure) well at least they get to increase the rates for transmission. My gas bill this winter has been very reasonable as we had a mild winter this year. I averaged about $65-$90 from Nov. to Feb. The winter of 07-08 I saw a few $300 bills. There is a minimum of $39 just to have the service turned on in your home. During the summer months, my actual usage is just for the Hot water tank and very small about $6.

Electricity is a monopoly ran by some evil, evil, greedy people called Westar Energy. We have one Nuclear plant that when put online 10 years late and $3billion over budget raised our electricity rates to some of the highest in the nation. The rest of the state's electricity is generated by Natural gas, Coal or Wind. They too are surcharged so our beloved Westar can recoop the cost of the Wolfcreek Nuclear Plant. With the current increase that was granted them by the Kansas Corp. Comm. 14% we are paying 22 cents per KW. With an electric stove, dishwasher, washer, dryer, celing fans, security lighting and cooling an 1874 sq.ft home my monthly bill runs about $125-$250 summer, and $55-$75 winter. Electric also has a convenience fee for having this wonderful survice to you home. It cost $15 per month to help them maintain their transmission lines.

 

[askomiele]

Here Belgium, should be a free liberale electricity market sinds 2007, well it's not. We pay not that much per kilowatt (7.1188 eurocent/kwh during day and 3.3229 eurocent/kwh during nights and weekend) but min €140 of the bill are taxes + €448 for distrubition + €3 for renting the meter and €72 to pay for distrubution along the highvoltage lines. We use, dishwasher, electric waterheater and electric dryer included, in total 10200 kWh a year. In total we will pay €1200 a year.
Oh an there is no gaslines around here so we heat the house with a pelletstove.

50% of our electric is produced nuclear.

 

[thomasortega]

Interesting fact

In Paraguay, as 98.9% of the energy is produced by the Itaipu dam (50% Brazil and 50% Paraguay) and Paraguay has a huge profit selling big part of this energy to Brazil (Brazil gets 87% and paraguay only 13%), Electricity is very cheap.
An ordinary family house, with electric shower heads, air conditioners running 24 hours a day, washing machine and all other appliances pays the equivalent to 5 dollars per month.

Here in my office (lights, computers and 2x 30.000Btu A/C) the bill is never higher than 2.5 dollars per month.

BUT...

Phone:
1.1 dollars per minute (local call)
7.65 dollars per mnute (if you call to a mobile)
14.95 dollars per minute if you call from Paraguay to Brazil

Internet:
900 dollars/month 256kbps dsl
(that's why I have a Brazilian link illegally sent to paraguay by radio)

Cable TV:
350 dollars/month (only 30 basic channels)
1560 dollars/month (all 98 channels)

awful, isn't it?

Well, now the good things...

Supermarket:
30 dollars one can buy everything needed for a month, including some fancy products and maybe one or two bottles of wine.

Hairdresser:
50 cents for a fancy haircut

Cars:
That's the most unexplainable:
Mercedes SUV, brand new at the mercedes dealer 10 thousand dollars

Toyota corolla sedan $6.000
Chevrolet Spark (made in USA): $1200
Chevrolet HHR (Also made in the US, by the way it will be my next car) $3000 (and a stupid tv commercial saying $2999,99)

Laptop computer TOL, Sony, Toshiba or HP: $200 (windows Vista Ultimate included)

 

[thomasortega]

Argentina

John got amazed when we went to a liquor store in Argentina.

Vodka Absolut: 13 dollars
Limoncello: $2
Bottle of wine (fancy, delicious and very expensive brand) $4
Moet et Chandon $8

So... Argentina is the best country to get drunk. LOL

 

[brasilianguy]

as much as i read the posts over this site, as much as i hate brazil and love USA.
i had already listened that in usa the energy price variate around the country. but, the great thing is that there u can choice if u'll have a gas or an electric dryer for exemple.
here in brazil we don't have gas dryers, that would be the only way we could dry clothes automaticly. the only gas dryers we have are the old ones, from the 70s and 80s, that came from USA and the Duet, imported from usa, but for an umpayble price of $2500 (5000 reais, my family lives with 2000 reais for month!!!). the olds are too expansive too, couse they're rare!!
the electric dryer we have, national, are too bad, they're vented, but takes 2 hours to dry a load ans spend too much energy.... We have the Affinity electric dryer in our market too, a little cheaper than the Duet, but still too expansive, and is electric!!!

well, i'd like to say too, taht i think that we hadn't a great introduction of that great appliances here, like it happened in usa! i saw a comercial of the youngtown dishwasher where the lady says "why do dishes the old way if u can do it the modern way?"
9 in 10 brazilian housewives hate dishwasher couse they think that u need to pre wash the dishes b4 put in the machine! but they really never used one, they just listened about, but about the first ones that was bad! my mother, b4 i bought our dishwasher said "the time i'll take to put the dishes in the machine, i wash them!!!" but after i bought, she really like the dishwasher (well, in trueth she doesn't know to put the dishes there, i put them everyday, but she sees that i take no more then 10 min to put a full pile of dishes that she would take an our to wash!)

 

[brasilianguy]

man, did i understand wrong, or the energy in europe is paid once a year??
i'd like that here in brazil we had lower costs using the energy late night.. i'd run the dishwasher at the cheaper time!!!!

 

[arrrooohhh]

Rapunzel, may I be nosey and ask what suburb you live in?

I live in Ashfield - close enough to the city to enjoy the inner suburban lifestyle, but doesn't have the "trendy" reputation that makes everything so expensive.

 

[rapunzel]

Today it was announced that NSW electricity prices are going

This means an average increase of $50 per billing cycle. Whilst many households will be able to absorb this, many others won't, especially now that our unemployment rate has risen to 5.2% with a projected 7% and above. The idiot from our pricing authority, who was being interviewed and asked why such a large incease, basically said that it wasn't negotiable people will just have to pay it. Nice attitude I say - but that's what one gets in a country that is run by lawyers and bean counters. For anyone is reading this, yes, I am having a bitch of course.

It isn't just about the cost of electricity, it's also that gas, water, sewerage, petrol, groceries are all going in one direction and the increases are well above our rate of inflation. We are constantly told to pay more for all kinds of reasons, some genuine, many of them spurious. Yet, there is no relative increase in additional value being delivered for the extra money that we pay. If I want a pay increase I have to demonstrate what additional value I will bring to my job to justify that increase.

The way things are going, we will become a much more divided nation socially and economically. This is not simply about getting people to be more efficient or exploiting our dependency. It is very much about social equity and opportunities. If our governments, pricing authorities and large business interests keep pushing the envelope as they have of late, they should declare their intentions clearly and unequivocally. What they should really say is that everyone who earns above $150,000 will be entitled to a modern 21st century life style, which includes running water, flush toilets and such like; and everyone else can go and s**t in a ditch.

Rant over! (for now)

That's okay arrrooohhh,

I live in West Pennant Hills. The last time I checked, my suburb had about 1% unemployment and approx. the same rate of people on benefits. Most folk around here own their own businesses or are in upper management. Though, I reckon we will see a lot more for sale signs very soon.

I suspect that we also have a good number of dodgy brothers around the place. A friend of mine, who worked for the ACCC years ago, used to come to this suburb to serve writs on defaulters et al. He used to always joke about the well-dressed wives in their designer labels answering the door, spewing profanities, whilst their husbands were running out the back door in their jocks, jumping fences to avoid being served.

I lived in the inner city years ago. East Sydney to be exact - between Oxford and Williams streets. This was during the eighties and nineties, when it was loads of fun. I moved to Cairns in the late nineties, but now have to spend most of my time back in Sydney again, because of my current business and study commitments.

I actually hate the inner city now. It costs a bundle to get there and there is nothing of interest for me anymore. Sydney is actually really boring now. Occasionally I go to a performance at the opera house, but I don't frequent my old haunts like Oxford Street or Newtown anymore. Maybe it's because I've changed, but the place has gotten grotty and the people are a lot less friendly. Not to mention that the gay clientele seems to have been driven out of many night clubs, bar the most established ones; even though Oxford Street used to be our Castro District.

Anyway, too much information. You only asked to know where I lived and I've given you a bio, but that's me, sweet, warm and friendly.

Cheers

rapunzel

 

[dj-gabriele]

did i understand wrong, or the energy in europe is paid once

Oh no! Electric bills have 2 months billing cylces
Gas and water are usually 3 months
Telephone is usually 1 or 2 moths

 

[MrX]

Republic of Ireland

Heating systems:

The most common type of heating in Ireland is hydronic (water circulated through radiators). This is typically heated with:

1) Natural Gas
2) Oil - pressure jet boiler (furnace) burning gasoil, or gasoil/kerosine blend.
3) Solid fuel, turf (peat), coal and wood.
4) Biomass / woodchip boilers are increasingly popular for environmental reasons. These are also automated, making them a viable alternative to gas or oil.
5) Electricity - rare and expensive to run.
6) Ground to water or air to water heat pumps, rare as they're very cost-ineffective in a temperate climate.

Some homes have two or more boilers on the same system, so they can use various combinations of solid fuel (stoves/back boilers etc), gas, oil, solid fuel, wood chip depending on the time of year and cost. The boilers can usually co-exist happily on the same system.

Domestic hot water is usually provided using an insulated copper cylinder referred to as 'the immersion'. This is heated by circulating water from the heating system through a heat-exchanger coil at the bottom of the tank. The tank also has an electric element 'an immersion heater' (hence the name) in the tank. This usually enters from the top of the tank and has a long and a short element. You can set the system to heat only the short element during the day by switching it to a 'sink' setting or, if you want to have showers / baths it can heat the full tank by activating the long element when it's switched to 'bath' mode.

Some homes are also installing solar heating, in this case there's a second heat exchange coil which is heated by a solar panel on the roof.

The water can be heated with any combination of central heating, direct electric heating and/or solar.

The other heating system used here is electric storage heating, although it's not very popular as it tends to be less flexible and more expensive.

This works by using night rate (half price) electricity to heat special storage bricks inside units that look like a typical convector heater. During the day, these units open shutters, or use fans to dissipate the stored heat into the room. The more recent systems have quite complex programming systems which monitor the outside temperature to predict how much heat they will need to store over night.

They work quite well in a well-insulated home, but in an older house they can be very unsatisfactory as they can't provide an instant response.

Some systems over come this by having an ability to provide an instant boost using normal rate power, but this is quite expensive to run.

There's also the old-fashioned approach of open fires. Most homes still have at least one fire place. Often, these contain a very realistic looking gas fire, or an electric flame-effect fire.

Older homes (pre-1930s), often have several. Many homes would have had fire places in every room, including all the bedrooms, but these were typically removed by the 1950/60s as central heating systems became the norm. They are sometimes retained purely for decorative / historic value.

Electric heating using full rate power is generally only used to boost heat in a particular room. It's not very cost effective.

---------

Energy prices (major suppliers):

ESB:
Day: 17.5c [22.35 US cents] / kWh Night: 8.67c [11.81 US cents] / kWh
Bord Gas Energy:
Day: 17.1c [21.85 US cents] / kWh Night: 8.46c [10.91 US cents]/ kWh
Airtricity: (Wind energy supplier)
Day : 15.25c [19.48 US cents] / kWh Night: 7.54c [9.63 US cents] / kWh

Typical electricity bill for my 2-bedroom apartment, using washer, dryer, dishwasher, electric water heating, electric cooking & all the usual electric appliances is : 130 euro / two months.

Gas:
Bord Gas Energy:
6.21c [7.93 US cents]/ kWh (conversion factor = x * 11.5059, where x = volume of gas in cubic meters)

Typical gas bill for my reasonably large 2 bedroom apartment is 150 euro / two months in winter months and about 40 euro per two months in summer months.

------------------------

Communications:

Hard to calculate landline per-min tarrifs as most providers do 'bundles' of calls and broadband.

My current provider has:

7mbit/s broadband
unlimited calls to Irish and UK landlines
and major reductions to mobile phones.
Comes in at just shy of 60 euro per month typically.

I'm thinking of changing to cable though and dumping the landline. It seems quite a bit cheaper if you take TV, broadband and phone all from the cable company.

I also use VoIP, which works out very cheap.

TV:

Public service annual charge (License fee that covers public service broadcasting: €160 / year (US$205)

Digital Cable:
190+ channels (max pack, no premium channels i.e. movies/sports) - €33.50 / month (US$ 42.82)
(cable box includes ability to record,rewind,pause etc)

Digital Satellite:
500+ channels (all basic, no premium movies/sports) €30.50/month (US$ 39)
Sat box includes ability to record,rewind,pause, etc.

Mobile phone:

There are 5 GSM/3G networks and the market's highly competitive, but I wanted an iPhone so I'm being charged a bit over the odds to put it mildly on the 'iPhone sucker' package.

Eh, that's about it!

Currency conversion based on : 1 EUR = 1.27815 USD 1 USD = 0.782383 EUR