Damn Drains

[panthera]

Rich,

I don't know about California, but in Colorado, it is permissible to use a NSF quality neoprene compression joint to replace a lead fitting. Silly as it may sound in a state which has to filter fluoride, iron, lead and silver out of the drinking water in many places, Colorado has extremely tough metal laws. If those epoxy joints hadn't all failed early, we'd still be without soldier...

Here in Germany - where the rules are similar in their draconian fear of earthquakes (in Germany? yes, in Germany) to California - it is permitted to use "O"-rings specially designed for such older joints. Calling them "O"-rings isn't really quite right, as they are not just cheap rubber, but carefully compounded and formed to seal and slip without leaks and in level runs.

But, wouldn't it be faster and (in the end) cheaper to just redo the cast iron with modern pipes and joints? You could do the layout right instead of that mare's nest.

 

[sudsmaster]

By code in this county all waste/drain/vent piping must be cast iron. Of course, if I did the work myself with abs, who would know?

However I believe it is permissible to use the more modern sealing approach with rubber gasketing. That however would indeed mean tearing out most of those pipes because of the difficulty in disassembling old leaded bell joints without them breaking on the male end.

I think some of the upper joins are leaking, anyway, but they only do it when the piping gets clogged.

I'm gonna have to spend a few hours in the Home Depot plumbing section to see what remedies for the do-it-yourselfer are available.

Meanwhile, it should be ok as long as I don't overload the garbage disposer and snake the run periodically.

 

[panthera]

Rich,

We left most of the cast iron intact (1903, oakum and lead, exactly the same situation as yours, I swear, those photos looked like the crawl space in my darlin's place).

I get you on the code, that's why I mentioned doing it in cast iron. By the by, I do believe San Francisco county also permits steel, tho' my knowledge is from 1982, so dated.

I would not try to repair if you can't use compression joints, I'd just lay new pipe and leave the old lie in peace.

Thanks for taking the time to share those pics. Copper DWV was all the rage on the Front Range for quite some time in the 60's and early 70's (about the time aluminum wiring was popular, go figure) our acidic water is killing all of those now...

 

[sudsmaster]

I'm in Alameda County, which I understand requires cast iron only for drain lines.

There is no way I wou0ld leave the old drain in place - it would be in the way of new drain connections to the shower and tub. Plus it would mean breaking open the 4" main line to add another input - not something I'd tackle lightly (although it could be nice to have another drain connection for another washer location). What I would do is use a snap cutter to open the line from the tub to the main waste line. And again just before the shower. Then disconnect the old drain iron from the tub and shower (below the connection to the roof vents), shove it to the side of the crawl, and install new cast iron with neoprene compression gaskets to service those two locations - this time with no sagging. There are existing neoprene compression gaskets on other connections in the system, such as at the kitchen sink and also at the new Y they added at some point to connect up the copper drain line from the "new" laundry closet that is just off the kitchen area.

Although the water here is slightly basic, the existence of copper in the washer drain line has led me to be moderate in my occasional use of vinegar as a last rinse aid. I understand that both copper and cast iron are susceptible to attack from acids, but that cast iron is much more resistant to such corrosion.

 

[sudsmaster]

A stop gap precaution

I may get a moisture sensing alarm to put in the shower stall. Since I rarely use that stall for showering, it would help to alert me to a clog and impending flood before it breaches the confines of the shower.

Such alarm-only moisture detectors are relatively inexpensive.

 

[sudsmaster]

P.S.

Because the two large snake heads ran into so much resistance during their runs, I did a late night check on the drain line... ran the water in the kitchen sink... went down there with my best flashlight (4 D-cell LED Maglite) and confirmed no drips, no runs, no errors along the entire line.

Just so I could fall asleep faster ;-)

 

[speed_queen75]

Wow

love the info...

 

[retro-man]

" In this country it is code for all sewerage and venting pipes be cast iron."
I don't believe this be so any longer. I just had a new house built and everything is pvc. All vents all sewerage lines etc. This must have changed a few years ago because I have seen a lot of this in newer homes and homes that have been remodeled have pvc connected to the cast iron.
Jon

 

[sudsmaster]

Nope.

Plastic drain/waste/vent piping is NOT allowed within the confines of a building by code in THIS city.

BUILDING CODES

The City of San Leandro Building Codes are contained in the San Leandro Municipal Code (Title 7, Chapter 7-5). The current codes went into effect on January 1, 2008. They incorporate requirements contained in the following:
2007 California Building Code (2006 IBC and as amended by City Ordinance)
2007 California Fire Code (2006 IFC)
2007 California Mechanical Code (2006 UMC)
2007 California Plumbing Code (2006 UPC)
2007 California Energy Code (effective January 1, 2007)
2007 California Electrical Code (2005 NEC)
1997 Uniform Housing Code

It should be noted that the above codes have been modified by the State of California and the City of San Leandro to include various additional requirements based on local conditions. For instance, the Plumbing Code has been amended to prohibit the use of plastic pipe (i.e. ABS and PVC) within the drain, waste and vent system of a building. And the structural provisions of the Building Code have been modified to address earthquake design standards.

http://www.ci.san-leandro.ca.us/CDBldgCodes.asp
7-5-915 MATERIALS.

Section 701.1, Materials of the Uniform Plumbing Code is hereby deleted and replaced to read as follows:

Drainage piping shall be cast iron, galvanized steel, galvanized wrought iron, lead, copper, brass, Stainless Steel 304 or 316L, extra-strength vitrified clay, pipe, or other approved materials having a smooth and uniform bore.

Section 701.1.2 of the Uniform Plumbing Code is hereby deleted.

Sections 701.2, Materials of the Uniform Plumbing Code is hereby deleted and replaced to read as follows:

Drainage fittings shall be of cast iron, malleable iron, lead, brass, copper, vitrified clay, stainless steel 304 and 316L (304 shall not be installed underground and shall be kept at least 6 inches (152 mm) aboveground), or other approved materials having a smooth interior waterway of the same diameter as the piping served, and all such fittings shall be compatible with the type of pipe used.

http://qcode.us/codes/sanleandro/view.php?topic=7-7_5-9-7_5_915&frames=off

 

[sudsmaster]

PS

I wrote:

"By code in this county all waste/drain/vent piping must be cast iron"

I didn't say "in this COUNTRY"...

!