Deep rinse FL UK/IRL?

[MrX]

Very nice!

Which machines are using JetSystem type cleaning (i.e. sprays/recirculation pumps) - at ones stage it was only Zanussi, now it seems to be increasingly common.

Also what's JetSystem+
Some of the Zanussi and Electrolux models seem to have it (the very newest ones)

 

[2drumsallergy]

Recirculation Pump

Hi mrx,
The Electrolux brands AEG, Zanussi and of course Electrolux models feature the JetSystem or Recirculation Pump if you like. Some LG models also feature a Recirculation Pump and some top end Gorenje models too. The original Zanussi JetSystem has evolved over the years; the first models returned the water to the top of the inner drum where it showered through the holes onto the laundry. The highly concentrated washing solution along with spin bursts throughout the wash cycle provided excellent wash performance. Later models return the water via a jet built into the top of the door seal; this seems more efficient to me as all the returned water has to pass through the wash load. The Recirculation Pump has a tendency to fail if a lot sand finds its way into the machine e.g. work clothes from a construction worker or children's clothes etc. but it's pretty reliable for the most part and 99% of the population will not have abnormal amounts of sand in their laundry.

David

 

[lavamat_jon]

Mrx - I presume Jetsystem + is what they call their new spray design... our ZWF1437 had a fan shaped spray rather than, well, a jet shaped spray. Didn't really make any difference over the jet shaped spray my AEG 86741 had, but did the same job.

Only tendency I found with the recirculation pumps is that they somewhat hindered rinsing at least in the first rinse cycles - when the jet starts up at the beginning of the rinse they dump suds from the sump right onto the load, and for obvious reasons they can contribute to excessive sudsing if you're not careful with detergent.

David,

The Aqualtis looks nice. Glad to hear that the Aqualtis machines are turning out to be good machines, I was very sceptical at first about them - it's about time the Indesit company made some better quality products. It's a shame to see Hotpoint products made in Italy, but if they're better quality for it then it's just what the brand needs. .

Jon

 

[MrX]

Jon,

It's not really a Hotpoint at all, given that it's branded as an Ariston Aqualtis everywhere outside the UK and Ireland.

 

[2drumsallergy]

Hotpiont or Ariston

Hi Jon,
The Aqualtis is 100% Ariston, all components are specific to the Aqualtis and totally different from the GDA designed machines however the Inverter motor is also used in some of the GDA designed models.
I have found that the drum bearings are a weak point on some of the GDA design machines; some machines run for years with no problems while others (Identical models) fail prematurely. Bearing replacement in the GDA designed Hotpoints is generally expensive as the rear tub has to be replaced along with the drum shaft and spider, if the drum shaft is not replaced the bearings usually fail again within weeks or months.

The Aqualtis is a more stable machine during spin as the tub unit is suspended from the top of the cabinet by 4 springs with 2 dampers below the tub.

Two weeks ago I gave my old Hotpoint WF860P (To make room for my Aqualtis) to my cousin; it's well into its 6th year now, never gave me any problems and still running perfectly. I have encountered younger versions of the same machine with bearing failure.

Interestingly Which? Magazine rated the Aqualtis as a "Don't buy!" and as such Which? have lost all credibility with me. In reality the Aqualtis is a good solid machine, very quiet, delivers excellent wash performance, excellent spin performance at 38% remaining moisture for 1600RPM models, well specified and reasonably priced.

David

 

[MrX]

Sometimes I think Which can rate a whole brand rather than individual machines. Often their top of the line machines can be pretty good, while their bottom of the line stuff can be disposable rubbish.

The higher end brands just start at the middle of the line level and work up. Miele just goes straight in at the top.

 

[jwilson00]

Is this still true of the aqualtis?

I read this on a repair site, is this true for all models?

the drum bearings cannot be individually replaced although this is true for the majority of the household name washing machines now. More seriously though, the drum cannot be stripped out to retrieve a bra-wire or other obstruction that could get trapped between the tub and drum. This is because the outer tub on the Hotpoint Aqualtis is sealed! - a new and very unwelcome development. Many items may well be retrieved by removing the drum paddle and fishing in the bottom of the tub but it’s always been possible for some obstruction to be only retrievable by stripping out the drum.

If the drum bearings fail you apparently need to fit an entire new tub and drum. This would almost certainly write the washing machine off.

 

[MrX]

I've seen a bra wire write off a washing machine on a few occasions. I think the simplest solution is to buy a laundry net for such items, or seal them into a pillow case.

It's a complete nightmare to get something like that removed from any machine, obviously far worse with a sealed one.

 

[2drumsallergy]

Drum Bearings

Hi jwilson00,
I'm not sure about the Aqualtis as I have not yet had a bearing problem among my customers. But yes the GDA designed Hotpoints such as the WF860 or WT960 require the drum spider and rear tub half to be replaced, if this is not done the bearing will rapidly fail again usually within a week or two. The problem is damage the the shaft primarily the sealing surface of the shaft which damages the new seal. As for the outer tub being sealed it would not be possible to install the inner drum if that were the case.

Under wire bras should not be washed in any automatic washing machine unless they are securely zipped inside a modified pillow case, a laundry net is not sufficient as the wire can escape through the holes of the net. I have lost count of the number of bra wires I have removed over they years. Most modern washers have drum holes so small that the wire cannot pass through but the wire just slips down between the door seal and the drum I have even removed one from a Honeycombe Care Miele. The best least invasive way to remove a bra wire is through the tub drain hole, I use a grabber tool that operates like a syringe but sometimes a machine has to be stripped down.

The attached pictre is my Dyson CR02 Allergy, it shows the lower high water level as there is only small load in the machine. The higher high water level goes one third up the door glass.

David

 

[seamusuk]

Hotpoint/Indesits

Hey Guys

Most of these now have welded Drums - this means the only option is to replace the complete inner/outer drum assembly!!!!.

A giveway is "Welded" after the model on the model label on the packing.

your only hope of getting anything out is through the sump or heater openings!

Seamus

 

[2drumsallergy]

Welded Tub Units

Hi Seamus,
I read your post and decided to pop the lid of my Aqualtis and sure enough the Tub Unit is welded. I can see advantages and disadvantages to this design; on the plus side there is no chance of the washer leaking at the joint between the tub halves, the tub unit will also be more rigid. On the negative side there is no way to replace a broken drum spider or a damaged inner drum for that matter. As for bearing failure I would never replace the bearings without replacing the shaft and spider as they simply fail again.

Are the Hoover Vision HDs also welded like this?

David

 

[lavamat_jon]

I was aware that the Hotpoint Aqualtis machines were made in Italy by Ariston... but I think if they are turning out to be better quality machines then this will probably do the Hotpoint brand name good as at the moment a lot of people associate it with the current unreliable WMA/WF washers. My grandparents had to dump a WF340, 18 months old, due to bearing failure even though it was only used two or three times a week - if it can't last an elderly couple then it is disgraceful IMO.

David - are you sure your WF860 was 6 years old? As far as I'm aware the WF range was released in mid-2004, I remember working in Euronics at the time and the reps were making quite a big deal over the launch of the new Hotpoint range, in fact we even ran a competition when they first came out to win the 1000 Aquarius model.

As I said, nice to see they are an improvement on the previous Hotpoint and Indesit designs, though it is early days yet so as with any new design it's a wait and see I guess when it comes to longevity. With the increased environmental waste concerns nowadays manufacturers need to put some quality back into machines, and it's nice to see Indesit especially doing this. It's also nice to see that the water stingy machines are slowly dying out as manufacturers are realising that sometimes you just need water to launder clothes . Though I still think the sealed tub is a con, and is nothing more than built in obsolescence.

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

Talking of water levels...

AEG Sensitive water level

 

[platinum6]

I like the water level in the AEG! Nice and high, just how it should be!

 

[launderess]

That is the same level my vintage Miele uses for the "Soak" and pretty sure "Woolens" cycle as well. LOTS of water!

 

[decodriveboy]

Dang that is some WATER!

Meanwhile, here in the U.S., our "sensitive setting" would equal an extra teaspoon.

 

[MrX]

From what I gather, there's no problem selling a machine that, by default, uses very little water, but can have a user-programmable option to raise the water level. You still get your A-rating for efficiency, but if the end user wants to raise the water level he/she can.

 

[decodriveboy]

That scenario you described would be ideal

but makes too much sense for American manufacturers to do.

 

[launderess]

Yeahbut

High water use means bearings and other components must be designed to withstand such use, and as we've seen many of today's front loaders barely cope with five or so years of routine low water use.

L.

 

[dascot]

Which? rated one particular Aqualtis model as a don't buy - that doesn't cover the entire range, just that model. They generally won't recommend Hotpoint washers at the moment anyway until the reliability data they get from their surveys gets better.

Interestingly, the 8kg model isn't on Hotpoints site, but is in the downloadable brochure...