Defoamers / Anti-sudsing agents?

[earthling177]

Please excuse me for asking this, but I was traveling and missed part of the thread: I seem to remember a thread where people were discussing the use of anti-sudsing agents (or defoamers) so as to reduce the suds from regular laundry detergents.

Has anyone tried the stuff used as defoamers in spas/hot tubs or the one used in the RugDoctor machines with any kind of success? Or anything else, for that matter?

Thanks in advance,
-- Paulo.

 

[sudsmaster]

Paulo,

Yeah, some people said they used Amway or other brand defoamer.

But fabric softener works just fine too.

 

[launderess]

Twas Moi

That used Amway, but any silicone based defoaming agent should work just as well.

L.

 

[cleanfresh]

Hi, Launderess!

How are things going in detergentville?

 

[MrX]

If you have a major over-foam problem, try one cap of fabric softener straight into the wash i.e. through the detergent drawer followed by some water in a front loader, or just straight into the tub of an agitator top loader.

Seems to do the trick quite nicely.

 

[mayken4now]

I have done the fabric softner thing before, and got yelled at.

It does seem to make clothes "sticky" if you are washing in hot water however. I usually use a warm spray rinse or a warm rinse if I have to tame down suds with softner.

Steve

 

[westyslantfront]

When my Mexican detergent (Viva) foams up, I use carpet cleaner de-foamer that I get at Industrial Chemicals of Arizona. Works great and does not hamper cleaning of clothes.

Ross

 

[frigilux]

Is this the stuff you use, Launderess? It's the only silicone-based defoamer I can find at Quixtar.

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[launderess]

My bottle is "Amway" labeled, and thus older, but yes that probably is the same product. Got mine for a few pennies, in fact cost more to ship (an eBay find).

L.

 

[launderess]

Don't like fabic softeners as most are either wax tallow blends with varios oils, or the newer formulations of surfactants. The former can interfere with detergent cleaning ability and the later don't do much for killing foam, IMHO.

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

And a silicone compound is preferable to an tallow derivative? I'll take the tallow, thanks. Silicone is for implants... and not even sure about that... quite unnatural... lol...

 

[launderess]

Silicone next to long chain soaps are the main foaming controling agents found in laundry detergents. Tallow is cheap and rather plentiful, so would think if it could be used detergent makers would do so.

The Amyway defoamer knocks down suds and more importantly keeps them down even during the long wash cycles on my Miele. In the past when I have used Fels soap or resorted to fabric softener, while the suds would get knocked down, they would often come back during a long wash.

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

Um, Cimberlie... fabric softeners ARE long chain soaps.

 

[mrcleanjeans]

Salt works well without all the softener residue

 

[launderess]

Really?

Well butter my butt and call me a biscut! Learn something new every day, we do.

Cannot explain why, but the Amway defoamer is streets ahead of anything else one has used to knock down suds, including FS and soap. Once more only a scant 1/2 teaspoon does the trick in most cases and so far there has not been any side effects laundry wise.

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

Laundress,

It would not surprise me that silicone compounds are more effective foam suppressants than long chain soaps. If you've ever tried to wash a silicone compound off your hands - like a siloxane (I have, used to work with the stuff) you'll see that it's very tenacious.

Similarly, the coolant used in the machine tools I work with now has a foam suppressant that is extremely effective. So effective, that I find it nearly impossible to add enough detergent when I wash my work clothes to produce a layer of suds. Normally what I do is a quick warm rinse/spin with a powdered HE detergent to get most of it off, and then a normal long hot wash. Even then, the suds are suppressed quite a bit. And that's just from the coolant that splashes on my shop coat or apron. It would not surprise me if the foam suppressant in the coolant is a silicone based compound. I may wind up using a regular high sudsing detergent in the front loader for such work clothes. At last, I can use Mexican Ariel!

 

[earthling177]

Well, I'm not too happy with the so called performance of HE detergents lately, they seem to be getting worse. The last box of Tide HE I got not only doesn't clean as well as it used to, but it's not as suds-controlled either. And the liquid HE seem more like a joke, they are very sudsy. I'm thinking of just buying regular stuff and trying the defoamers.

I used to think that the silicones that were used as anti-sudsing agents were plastic, not silicone oil. Then I heard here that at least the old formula of Dash had fish oil as suds control. Seems odd to me, wouldn't the oils just bind to the detergents then, or maybe soil the clothes?

Also, I would like something that just suppresses the foam, not neutralizes the detergents, which is what I heard fabric softeners actually do.

I used to love it when one could just dump some powdered All in a load that had oversudsed and it would take care of it. Not so in the last few years. It's a cruel joke that All, the detergent that *started* so that people could use it in *any* washer now has a "regular" formula that suds and a HE formula.

Also, Rich, why do you care if you have a layer of suds or not, if the clothes come out clean? The best detergents I've used make absolutely no suds and clean way better than the high sudsers. Supposedly, if the water is silky/slippery and the clothes are coming out clean, why would one want suds? And if I remember right, the silicones in that coolant were supposed to be lubricants, not foam suppressants, maybe they do double duty?

 

[sudsmaster]

Why do I care if you have a layer of suds or not?

Paulo,

I care because surfactant action - along with break, alkalinity, and water softening - is required for thorough cleaning. If there are no suds it's possible that the oil or foam supressor is binding to the surfactant and that it could be redeposited back on the fabrics as scum. I don't want scum. I have also noticed that the characteristic odor of the shop coolant is pronounced until I add enough detergent to get a thin layer of suds. The coolant aroma is not something I wish to have on the finished laundry, either. In other words: thin layer of suds == better final results.

Silicones actually make very poor metal lubricants. Their presence in a coolant - if any - would be as foam supressant. Their other application is as a high-dielectric, high temperature lubricant, as in electrics. But again they don't really lubricate very well; traditional mineral soaps (greases) and organic oils lubricate much better. Cutting fluid coolants have water soluble oils (don't ask). The coolant performs several functions: cools the work and the cutting tool so that the tool doesn't overheat and get soft; flushes chips out of the cut so they are less likely to clog the cutter; and lubricates the cutting edge to help reduce wear.

In any case, it's possible that the suds-suppressing substance in the coolant is the water soluble oil, and not silicone. I'd have to do some research to verify that. But it makes little difference in the laundry room.

 

[sudsmaster]

50% to 70% Hydrotreated Napthalenic Oil

No silicones in the coolant I use.