Defrosting a '52 Kelvinator -- Advice Please!

[rp2813]

I launched a thread last week in search of advice for patching/repairing the tray below the freezer that routes defrost water into a collecting bin.  After today's experience, I thought it would be better to start a new thread since another issue has surfaced.

 

Per suggestions from the previous thread, I went with the easiest method first and bought Flex Tape.  It's not the friendliest thing to work with and I had to layer it in some areas that were uneven, but a leak test was successful.

 

Today I got out my handy De-Frost-It heater and began the process.   After about half an hour or so, I checked the progress and found the inside of the freezer door was very hot, but not yet hot enough to melt it.  I bailed on the De-Frost-It, but the heat it generated had already loosened the frost build-up on the bottom outer surface of the freezer/evaporator.   The drain tray assembly was in place, so with the ice chunks laying on the tray I had no choice but to extract the tray and, due to its minimal clearance below the evaporator, allow nearly all of the ice to be scraped off the tray and to fall onto the shelves and contents below.

 

Oh, how I miss the no fuss, no muss defrosting experience of the two-door '57 GE Combination.  This was a disaster, and there was never even enough melted condensate to test out the patch in a real world situation.  I was hoping for a fairly painless operation and this was anything but.

 

As I stated above, this fridge hadn't been defrosted since I got it six months ago.  It appears that shorter intervals are required.  I don't have any owner's guide information to reference how frequently defrosting should happen, and assume that it would make sense to passively defrost more often and overnight so the amount of melted condensate would be contained in the collecting bin. 

 

This fridge is mainly used for drinks, so typically the door is opened a few times a day at most.  The door gasket isn't real soft, but it makes a good seal.   How often should I defrost?  The catch bin can hold a quart of water at most.  Any pointers would be appreciated, and in the meantime I'll be on the hunt for a late '40s - early '60s Combination.

 

 

 

[ea56]

Back in the days when I had to defrost these old kind of refrigerators I used to put a pan of hot water, (almost boiling) into the freezer compartment and close the door, leaving the control in the off position.  After about 20-30 mins I’d take a look at the progress and see if I could carefully loosen any of the “glacier”.  I’d also use an ice pick VERY carefully for help get out the ice.  I could usually complete the whole process in about an hour or so.  

 

Then I’d wipe out all the water, finish cleaning the fridge and turn it back on and put all the food back into the freezer.

 

It’s a job, and best done on a regular basis before it becomes Antartica. But of course, that’s not the way it usually happened.

 

Eddie

 

[launderess]

Much as one moans about my GE self-defrosting freezer, don't miss manually doing the job at all.

It is far better to manually defrost often when there is barely much build than to wait for a glacier to form in there.

There will be ice in and below freezer compartment that will make huge mess if allowed to become thick. My old fridge had a drawer under freezer that acted as sort of zone between freezing cold and merely fridge cold. When you defrosted the thing ice/water was caught by this drawer (empty of food of course). But if the thing became too full getting it out and to the sink without a mess became a problem.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for the affirmations regarding this annoying process! 

 

Eddie, you are a brave man and a rebel -- ice picks have been ill-advised for potential fridgicide as long as I can remember!

 

I had a defrost timer long ago, but all it did was create stalactites hanging from the bottom of the evaporator (on my '39 Westinghouse) so I got rid of it.  I have a small Telechron defrost timer somewhere, just a little round metal box with a dial on the front and two prongs on the back to plug it directly into the wall.  I'll see if I can find it and if it can be set for a long enough period of down time.

 

Other old refrigerators I've owned have had a drawer or pan of some kind under the evaporator to catch the condensate.  As L. stated, they never had the capacity to hold several months' worth of melted frost and water always found its way into other parts of the interior anyway.

 

I'll go dig around for the timer while it's still light out since I'm starting from a point of zero frost.  If it's a nighly thing, then maybe I'll only have to empty the collection bin every week or two, or even less often than that -- provided the power is cut long enough for the frost to melt.

 

[ea56]

Well Ralph, I haven’t had a fridge that I had to defrost since I was 30, and in those days seemed like everyone knew enough to avoid the tubing and coils if you used an ice pick, just attack the big slabs with one to loosen them for removal.  It really wasn’t that bad.  Every fridge that I had to defrost always had a drip tray or pan to catch the water.  I never damaged one, but of course accidents can always happen.

 

I never thought about using a timer, but that might work if maybe you set it to cycle off for about 30-45 mins every say 3 am.  That should be enough for any frost to dissipate if done every 24 hrs and not cause any loss of food.  May be worth a try,

 

At any rate I think these refrigerators kept food better, not as drying as frost free.

 

Eddie

 

 

 

 

[pulltostart]

I remember growing up with a Frigidaire single-door refrigerator that was, of course, not frostless.  Mother kept a defrost timer at the wall outlet and it ran each night.  I do not know for how long it ran or when it kicked in but that's how she handled frost.  We rarely had ice cream but when we did she would comment that she had to remember to turn the timer OFF until the ice cream was gone.

 

lawrence

 

[rp2813]

Eddie, expect a check-rate from Hans for your closing statement!

 

I couldn't find the Telechron timer but will try a regular appliance timer and see how it goes.

 

I do like the Kelvy even though it's missing the shelf that suspends the crispers, but a GE with alnico magnets would be the solution to my FWB's tendency not to close the Kelvy's door firmly enough.  He's used to his own fridge, which is tilted back so the door (annoyingly, IMO) closes on its own.  Even that won't work with the Kelvy, though.  Its beefy latch requires more force.

 

[stan]

Hi Ralph

Let's see some pics!
We may have more ideas for you if we can see inside, and the tray set up underneath.
You've got a clean fresh start..so the two of you can get to know each other now.
You'll soon know how often, and best method to defrost this one.
I like to think these old machines have their own personality and we need to get acquainted with their likes and dislikes.
Maybe it's just me, but I also think our job is to practice the "hippocratic oath" first do no harm.
Mine is so old..I don't force anything. I un plug before bed time, defrost overnight, empty tray the next am, wipe dry, plug back in.
I make sure that she doesn't build up more ice than what the tray can hold.

HTH

 

[foraloysius]

If you're impatient, use a blow dryer. Not on the hottest setting though. I use one anyway after defrosting my freezer to get all the moisture out of nooks and crannies, so the inside will be fully dry when I turn it on again.

 

[rp2813]

OK Stan, here are some pix!

 

The view from below shows the full width tray underneath the freezer.  The two long openings are covered by an insert, so any water that drips from the freezer gets routed to a drain hole in the right rear corner, which empties into the small collection bin located behind the Cokes. 

 

I'm still undecided about how long the timer should shut things down.  The temperature of freezer contents gets down into the 10F-15F range.  I don't know how that translates to surface temperature of the evaporator.  I'm also concerned that if there's not enough frost accumulation, whatever does melt will just sit in the tray and refreeze because there isn't enough of it to migrate to the drain hole (lather, rinse repeat) and form an ice blob over time.

 

I kind of think there's no easy solution given the complexity of the tray assembly and the minimal amount of clearance between it and the bottom of the freezer. 

 

[stan]

I think your right

The complexity of that tray makes for a tricky defrost.
Too bad you can't lay your hands on a owners guide (there's one out there) as it may answer your questions.
In the mean time, hope you can enjoy it. It's magnificent looking!
Maybe David will stop by with some insight?
P.S can we see peak inside the freeze compartment !

 

[tomturbomatic]

Layering towels on the shelf under the tray helps immensely with catching defrost water that drips from the freezing compartment. I use the concept when defrosting my upright freezer.

 

[rp2813]

Excellent suggestion, Tom!  I'm going to do that next time around.

 

Stan, here's a picture of the freezer interior:

 

[stan]

Ralph

The freezer pic shows the very narrow clearance between the freezer compartment and the catch tray!
Wow that tight!
Is there a way you could install something to each side..in the fridge compartment so you could set the water tray a bit lower? Something you could still slide the tray in or out on?

 

[sudsmaster]

If nothing is being kept in the fridge or freezer that cold contribute moisture (like open ice trays or veggies), then I suspect the moisture is coming in through the old door seal. Did you check it with a slip of paper all round? If it's loose at all anywhere probably a good idea to get online and order a replacement gasket. They are meant to be soft and pliable. If it's hard, then it's probably no good.

Also, I'd make sure that light bulb is LED. No sense in making the fridge work harder with a heat producing incandescent bulb.

Other than that, I remember having to defrost fridges in rental units all the way up to 1997. I would NEVER use an ice pick. I've seen too many fridges with obvious stab wounds, probably from tenants who think the "ice" in "ice pick" means it's meant for removing ice from the evaporator in a fridge/freezer. Instead, a tray of hot water inside the freezer, and a hair dryer for stubborn ice clusters. At most a blunt flatware knife for gently prying ice slabs loose.

 

[rp2813]

Stan & Rich,

 

I'm hesitant to do much to this fridge since it's really a placeholder for something more complete.  I could use the extra shelf and storage space that's currently missing, but I highly doubt I'll come across a donor fridge.

 

The fridge doesn't seem to be running too much of the time, and I did use a dollar bill to check the gasket seal and it wasn't too bad.

 

If or when the Corona scare wanes, I'm hoping potential replacements will start showing up on CL, and I'll be limiting my search to fridges that are easier to defrost. 

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, OK Ralph.

I have an old GE fridge, circa 47, that's been sitting in my workshop with a new door gasket waiting to be fitted and installed. For the past 2-3 years. A neighbor was tossing it so I rescued it from the curb. When I get some other projects out of the way, that thing may be next. Not that I need another fridge... but it would be nice to put the old GE through its paces. It would however be good for keeping drinks and avocados cold. Maybe summer garden produce as well. What I like about it is the relative absence of plastic; even the veggie bins are all metal. And I gather the old GE's are relatively energy efficient, thanks to their very thick old fashioned insulation.

 

[rp2813]

Well Rich, I think the Kelvy's ears were burning when I typed out my most recent post.

 

That same night, and for the second time in about a month, I heard it try to kick in and then stop.  I was busy in the kitchen so was relieved when, a few minutes later, it tried again and started up normally.  How often this happens, I don't know.  It has nothing to do with the door being opened too soon after it has cycled off.

 

I'm stepping up my searches on CL, ND, and LG.  I don't do FB.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, Ralph, there aren't that many vintage appliances that I see on FB anyway. Unless I'm missing something.

Plus it's been my impression that a lot of the ads on FB are scams.

Not sure about compressor activation stuff. It's certainly possible it's behaving to spec. Have you been able to find a service or owner's manual for the Señor Kelvin?

In other news, the Neptune appears to be fully functional - or at least to spec - now that I replaced the heater element. But I'm still looking for a used Electrolux pair; more capacity, higher temps.