Dishwasher detergent with phosphates: let the hoarding begin!

[passatdoc]

A number of recent posts have covered the issue of a ban on phosphates in US dishwasher detergent by summer 2010. I have not seen independent source confirmation of this allegation, but several posters here, whom one would think are a knowledgeable source, have confirmed the rumor.

Other posters here have posted their experiences using phosphate-free detergents and how their machines underperformed with the new formulations.

I had to go to Costco this evening to buy supplies for my office, and while there (buying toilet paper and cleaning supplies) I passed the aisle with Finish tablets. Carton of 100 tabs for $14.99. So I couldn't resist the temptation and bought two cartons. The present carton I am using is still half full, so I appear to have a hoard of about 300 tablets.

I recently read Consumer Reports' evaluation of dishwasher detergent. Oddly enough, there was no mention of an impending phosphate ban. I copied the chart with the ratings, but am reluctant to post it here in case it violates copyright use. Instead, here is a quote:

"For general use:
Cascade Complete with Bleach Hydroclean Action Powder, liquid, 12 cents (RECOMMENDED BRAND)

The Cascade Complete with Bleach Hydroclean Action Powder was very effective overall and cost less than half as much as many other top-performing detergents. If you want to or must use a phosphate-free detergent, consider the Method Smarty Dish tablet, which while not a recommended pick did perform the best out of the phosphate-free products we tested."

I tend to take CR washer ratings with a grain of salt, because they aren't looking at long-term reliability and durability. When they rate detergent for washers and dishwashers, I tend to place more importance on their findings because durability isn't an issue here; either the product cleans well, or it doesn't.

In the meantime, I will keep socking away the Finish.

 

[sudsmaster]

As yet there still is no federal law regulating phosphates in consumer laundry or dishwasher detergents. It's all done on a state or local level. We are fortunate in California, with our Mediterranean climate, that phosphates are not regarded as an environmental problem with most of our waterways. More of a problem are nitrates. An exception would be Lake Tahoe, which I believe has a ban on the use of phosphated detergents in the surrounding communities.

In any case, I don't see a phosphate ban coming to the state of California any time soon. If you do "hoard" phosphated detergent, or STPP, it would be a good idea to take care to keep it away from direct heat and also to keep it as dry as possible.

 

[joeekaitis]

The house brand of dishwasher detergent sold at Stater Bros. markets in Southern California contains "incidental or trace amounts" of phosphates.

Translation: It's made in factories that once made phosphate detergents and the amount will eventually drop to zero.

I use Lemi Shine (also phosphate-free) to compensate. Seems to do a good job.

 

[passatdoc]

per the Finish/Electrasol carton label:

"Phosphorus content: Electrasol tabs average not more than 8.7% phosphorus by weight, in the form of phosphates, which is equivalent to 1.8 grams per tablet"

I hate to sound like a sucker, but my 2001 Bosch dishwasher (no service calls ever, going into Year Nine) has a label on the top door rim that says "Bosch Recommends Electrasol Tabs and Jet-Dry". I already had Jet-Dry, so I bought a small box of Electrasol dual-action tabs. I think they were just starting to make the PowerBall tabs, but I chose the less expensive dual-action tabs since I was also using Jet-Dry.

The results were so astounding that I took all the plates and glassware out of the cabinets and washed everything. Most likely the results were due to upgrading from a GE potscrubber that never worked all that well to a basic Bosch, and quite possibly Cascade or some other product would have worked just as well. But since what I was doing worked so well, I just kept on doing it, and Costco helped by carrying Electrasol tabs, bringing the cost down to about 10 cents per tablet (typically they'd sell a carton of 80 for $8; cost has risen, 100 tabs just cost me $15 but still reasonable).

Oddly enough, some close friends bought a higher end Bosch, on my recommendation, in 2004, by which time the door rim label read "Bosch Recommends Cascade And Jet-Dry"!! So obviously there is some payola system going on. However, Finish/Electrasol still has a label on the back of the carton that reads "More dishwasher brands recommend Electrasol Products than any other brand", along with the logos for Bosch, Whirlpool, KitchenAid, and Maytag.

Of course, it's possible some of the manufacturers recommend more than one detergent, e.g. Finish AND Cascade.

My parents have a five year old KA and had purchased some Cascade gel packs. The soap dispenser is not very deep, and it was difficult or impossible to get the dispenser to latch closed with the gel packs...they are too thick. For this reason, they'd need to go either with a powder, a liquid (yuck), or Finish, which are not as deep and which fit inside the soap dispenser with decent clearance. So they too are now using Finish, almost out of necessity.

Too many appliance repairpersons have told me to stay away from liquids. I have a friend who once got some powdered dishwasher soap in his eye (some of it bounced as he was pouring it, a freak accident) and he spent all day in the Emergency Room. So I have shied away from powders, even though I understand brands such as Cascade and Electrasol work well, as powders if Jet-Dry or other rinse agent is also used.

 

[angus]

Just noticed yesterday at both Shop Rite and Stop & Shop that all the Cascade powders now are phosphate free - I thought I had more time, but apparently not...

 

[launderess]

Waaaaaaaahhhhhh! Me Too!

Cascade powders and such had been on sale for past few weeks at our local supermakets, and like the above poster thought one has some time to "stock-up", after an initial purchase. The fact that the shelves were full of the old phosphate formulas, and could see boxes of the old stock waiting to be put on shelves lead me to think there was time.

Sorry, but NO!

Was in the shops last week and the entire stock of old formulas of Cascade have been replaced by the new stuff. Manager said whatever was left of the old stuff was pulled from shelves and "sent back".

Oh well, have several boxes of vintage Calgon water softener (loaded with two types of phosphates), and about two pounds of STPP left from an old ChemistryStore.com order so am good. This besides what one purchased of the old Cascade "Hydroclean" gel when it first went on sale.

 

[bugsyjones]

I use only Cascade original powder. In the years past, my favorite was Palmolive liquid. At the time, it outperformed Cascade's liquid and was cheaper for the amount you get. Anyway, after a while, they switched to the Palmolive ECO. Might as well have named it trash. Because it's performance was so poor that I would have better results hand-washing.

So I switched to Cascade powder because of it's phosphate content. Paired with my KitchenAid Custom 21, the results were outstanding.

Anyway, while I was out getting cleaning supplies and stuff, I decided to try the new formula cascade liquid. Just out of curiosity to see how it performed. One thing I liked was the addition of chlorine bleach. For a while, Palmolive took it out of their liquid. And ECO doesn't have any at all. As far as cleaning goes, it was horrendous! Some dishes didn't come clean at all, had bits of food on them, and each and every piece had a gritty feel. Even in the KitchenAid, it didn't get the stuff clean. Needless to say, I was upset. I reverted back to Cascade powder.

You know, it's not worth the hassle to go green. A ban on phosphates is stupid. I could care less about energy efficiency my 'carbon footprint' or environmental impact. All I want are clean dishes. That's all that matters to me.

~Tim

 

[nmassman44]

I have been using the Cascade Powder that is phosphate free. Actually does a decent job in my Miele. Granted I have a water softener built into the dishwasher so that probably does help some. But so far the results have been good. One thing though I have noticed is a smell to the load when I open the door to the dishwasher. I can still find phosphated Cascade and Finish at BJ's. How long they will have it who knows. But I can tell ya once the whole country goes down this road and they dont get the results that they once got...it wont be pretty.

 

[frigilux]

I did a test recently with a very tough pots/pans load using the new phosphate-free Cascade Complete liquid/gel and the results were fantastic! I also tried the Biokleen powder and it works well, too. I have softened water, so that may make a difference.

I do care about the energy efficiency of appliances, the environment, and my carbon footprint. Granted, I'm no Ed Begley Jr., but I've found recycling, using CFL's in the house, getting a low-water usage pressure toilet, and buying energy efficient appliances to be no hassle at all.