Dishwasher Pre-Wash Cycle

[passatdoc]

if my 2001-vintage Bosch has a prewash....

...I wouldn't know about it, as there is no second detergent cup. My parents' and my friends' KAs have an auxiliary detergent cup for (presumably) the prewash.

My Bosch does do some sort of fill and rinse, then it fills again and only then does the detergent drawer open up. I'm not sure if the first round is a pre-wash or just an initial rinse.

 

[logixx]

Our Siemens from 2006 does a warm pre-wash on the autoNormal and autoHeavy cycles.

Now, I like clean dishes but I also think seven water changes are a little too much. I'm sure if you open the door of that GE after two or three water fills, most dishes will already be clean. The current TOL Frigidaire dishwasher even has four washes and four rinses on the P&P cycle - that's like 10 gal. or 40 liters! The most frugal dishwashers use six times less water and still clean dishes.

I mostly used the autoNormal on the Siemens and it worked flawlessly. Usually, it ran a pre-wash, main wash, purge, rinse, rinse, dry. Light loads would be wash, rinse, dry and heavy loads eliminate the purge(s) for a full extra rinse. It also varied the water pressure throughout the main wash. Sometimes it would wash only on high pressure or start of on normal, go down to low and then finish off on high. Very smart dishwasher and the best I ever used. My current one is a builders-grade unit and... I'm looking on eBay every day.

Alex

 

[washer111]

Dish-Drawers are supposedly the most efficient on the market today. They say you get roughly 60% the capacity of a standard dishwasher in every drawer. If you have a double, and run both, then your getting 1 and 1/5 of a dishwasher! Besides, running both uses just 13.4L/3.54 Gallons, so they are really more efficient than most dishwashers out there, except the super expensive Miele's, which have to be absurd to find more water savings (could it be running just one spray arm at a time, or just a low powered pump?)

That old old GE 2800 looks like a real winner! I guess that the beeping dishwasher ad is right - "GE... We brought good things to life!" (Note the use of brought instead of bring!)
Could you maybe do a closeup of the control panel? The green lighting on it gives it a more vintage look, and the countdown timer has what I call a "dented out" appearance (as in some fading on parts of the screen).

 

[washer111]

By the way, here is the commercial for the GE 2800 dishwasher pictured above. If you compare it to the 2500's ad, I think you'll notice its a little older, and doesn't sound quite as good

 

[jerrod6]

My Dw is connected to hot water but the kitchen is a long distance from the water heater so most of the pre-washes get cold or cool water.  In the winter even if  I run the hot water to the kitchen sink, the water in the DW will be cool because the hot water looses it's heat to the inside of the DW.  There are two cycles, cheese and starch, in which the DW will heat the prewash water.  For these the pre-wash lasts about 25 minutes and the water will be steaming at the end.

 

I used a cycle without a pre-wash today and everything came out OK.  Just a wash two rinses and a dry-- lasting 1 hour 35 minutes, probably about 3.5 gallons water in total. 

 

[washer111]

I think you can get decent results without a prewash. Our 2007 Dishlex (one of the last made in AU) was the 203 model (I think). Wasn't the biggest and best, but even on the 30 minute cycle using TABLETS (cold wash etc), the machine still got everything sparkly clean.

Whilst every morning I'd be furious about the plastic lunch boxes and cups still being wet, it did the job. But gawd, was it loud!

That Dishlex is now 5 years old. Maybe being made in Australia is what gave that machine its quality, maybe not. I sure as hell hope it still works, and the new owners of our old house decided to keep the machine!

 

[rapunzel]

I had the 2800 all in shiny black. A real stunner and great performer. Used to love looking at the display all lit up in the dark. From memory there was a hidden child lock button underneath the rinse and hold option, which locked the touch pad from inquisitive little hands during operation.

Bought mine in '88, but it only lasted 10 years. The fan separated from the drive shaft. Out of the blue it just started to make this awful racket during operation. Anyway, to get that problem repaired would have required for the entire motor unit to be replaced and that was going to be too expensive. Also, this machine had been a one off release here in Oz and getting a replacement motor was going to take a very long time and the dishes still needed washing. What was I to do?
I had it sitting in the garage for a couple of years before I finally overcame my grief and sent it to the tip. The cutlery basket is still around somewhere *sigh*.

Another thing about that machine, which blew me away, was how clean it was after 10 years of heavy use. There wasn't a spec of food anywhere in the self-cleaning filter assembly and disposer. Then again this machine moved plenty of water.

The only thing not up to scratch were some of the rubber components. GE used this very soft, black rubber that began to dissolving after a few years. In particular there were these two small stoppers that sat in the corners at the front, on either side of the door. I used to periodically wipe underneath the door to get rid of gunk that accumulated there over time and these little black stoppers would just smear my cloth and mark the tub. I used to remove them for cleaning. Then there was this tiny black plug that plugged a small hole right underneath the wash arm during operation. It actually dissolved completely and caused a drop in water pressure going up the telescopic tower. I noticed that because the dishes on the top rack suddenly started to have yibbles on them. I had to wait two months for that part to be mailed from the US.

What would I give to still have that machine running in my kitchen. Modern appliances look so plain and dull now.

 

[washer111]

What a shame! I think the GE's of this era weren't particularly good on the water though... The basic pot scrubbers shown in other posts use around 36L per wash, going up to around 40-50L in Potscrubber mode!

I'd love to have one of those. I suppose if the machine were better, than more Aussies would have owned one.

 

[rapunzel]

'I suppose if the machine were better, than more Aussies

Probably not. This was a good machine it just didn't last as long as I'd hoped and that can happen with any brand. The stainless model in the above photo is already 25 years old and still going strong. I also reckon that they didn't have any technicians familiar with the GSD models over here. When the service guy took the machine apart he looked pretty unsure about what he was doing. Service issues are not uncommon with niche products that are not widely available.

I chanced upon this machine at a wholesaler near the airport. It was kind of hidden out of sight away from the main showroom floor. This model was never available through places like Harvey Norman, Joyce Maine, David Jones or Grace Brothers. I saw an advert for the 2800 appear only once in Home and Gardens or a similar magazine and I paid around $1,300.00 for it, which was pretty steep for that time. In terms of performance and features the GSD 2800 was far superior to anything available on the Australian market then. Apart from being a much nicer looking unit than the standard fare available here, it was a true built-in, fully electronic with auto diagnostics, soil level selection, flexible program options, orbital lower wash arm, completely self-cleaning filter and soft food waster disposer. None of these features were available on our domestic machines and they were so plain Jane in comparison. It was also a slightly larger unit, which didn't fit into a standard space and we had to modify the cabinet and counter depth/width to make it fit.

Anyway, you may remember that by the late 80s early 90s GE had almost completely withdrawn from the Australian market. You could still buy their fridges and washers, but no small appliances, stoves or dishwashers.

Before I purchased the 2800 I had a Japanese made GE Platemate compact portable, which was identical in every way to the corresponding American model. I gave that to my parents when I got the 2800. The very first dishwasher that I purchased in Oz was a second hand GE Mobile Maid from the 60s; also exactly the same as the US model. It cleaned absolutely ace, but was noisy and long stem wine glasses, when placed incorrectly in one of the two top baskets, sometimes got caught under the inner rim of the tub and would break when I tried to pull the lid open.

Before the 1980s most dishwashers and other appliances available in Australia were American designs and technology. Kitchen Aid, Frigidaire, Westinghouse, GE were widely recognized brands here then.

 

[washer111]

Sad facts. I wonder why export models are so troublesome compared to their local counterparts? Could it be different voltages requiring design changes?

I guess if you told any european or australian the water usage on the pot scrubber cycle of one of these things, they'd have a heart attack! Good ol' GE made sure the heavy cycle had prewash, rinse rinse, main wash, rinse rinse , long wash, rinse long rinse I believe! Used something like 60L of water in the 80s!

But I guess the thing is, if GE had made more of a song and dance about the 2800's superior performance at the time, we'd all have been running around with self cleaning, orbital wash arm, wash towered local models by now! This is probably why Australian brands aren't recognised - they just weren't innovative! As you've probably read, we had one of the last Aussies Dishlexes.

A good wash, but some of the other models today, and of yesterday were garbage. Our friends have a Dishlex Global (or equivalent) that despite my best efforts in descaling filters and unblocking wash arms, doesn't perform very well. I will try to persuade them into running it a few times, and get the let of the land with it though, see if it really is a dud! It might also be other things, like 3 day old dishes drying out badly, or plates not being scraped (happened to relatives, wife got a new dishwasher in the 80s, and had chicken bones blocking the pipes! Was too lazy to scrape the plates).

But if I ever come across a 2800, 2500 or equivalent, count me in to owning one. Owning a 2800 in Australia would be very difficult! I bet any serviceman today would think they are recent machines, based on their superior technology!

 

[mielerod69]

My Miele

except the super expensive Miele's, which have to be absurd to find more water savings (could it be running just one spray arm at a time, or just a low powered pump?)

I load mine right up and it cleans anything I throw at it. See the photos. Mainly use the Sensor wash programme and it varies the water from anywhere from 7 to 17 litres, on average it uses around 10 to 12. 17 litres would be hit with 5 water changes.
Has a water softener but the water in Melbourne is soft 3 degrees so no salt is needed.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?39574

 

[rapunzel]

I doubt that voltage difference/design adaptation was an issue. GE clearly intended to market the GSD outside the US and their 240v units would have come straight from their Kentucky plant.

Spoke to someone who had been working in appliance sales and imports for a long time. He told me that during the 70s and 80s all the big side by side fridges came directly from the factories in the US, without having been converted to our voltage. They just pulled out the US cable and plug and stuck in a transformer with an Aussie plug and it worked fine. Washing machines were manufactured in the US for export the same as Speed Queen is still making washers there for sale outside America.

In my case it was material failure with the fan blades separating from the motor, nothing to do with voltage or any design alterations.

Not sure if the GSD used as much as 60 liters and even if it did it wouldn't have been that much of an issue with consumers as it is today. I can't exactly remember the number of water changes for the heaviest cycle, but I don't think it was as many as 9 - probably more like 6. The longest cycle took about 68 minutes to completion.

Until the mid 80s the market for dishwashers here was still very small. Dishwashers then were seen as an expensive luxury item and very few people had them. By the late 80s many of the American brands and their products had almost completely disappeared. The only areas where American technology continued to play a major role were refrigeration and laundry. Our own appliance manufacturing industry almost completely disappeared in tandem and over the past 20 years importers have been determining what kinds of products we put in our homes. That's why we now see Miele and LG delivery trucks driving around, instead of GE, Simpson or Hoover.

The world of appliances has changed a lot. Even in the US the appliance industry has moved towards a global model that has adopted overseas design and technologies into their domestic products. More models are now being offered with standard European triple filtration units rather than the self-cleaning filters that include a proper grinder. The way things are moving, in another 10 to 20 years we will probably all have the same appliances in our homes regardless of where we live in the world.

 

[washer111]

I'm surprised a country such as ours with a thriving economy at the time would have thought such a thing! Its sad to have seen so many manufacturers disappear over the last few years, such as Dishlexes overseas production, Hoover not being on our market anymore, great Australian brands such as Simpson, Kelvinator and Westinghouse being bought out be Electrolux (or Electrosux).

I wonder if the situation in the US is the same, or was it just ht local variants of these brands that they bought out?

 

[volsboy1]

It is amazing the differences in the amount of water used in all these machines from different countries.The new 2012 Maytag Jetclean says in the manual that it can use up to 13 gallons of water with a wash time of about 3.5 hours.That is if you have it on the longest  cycle of course but I was floored when I caught that water usage.I have TONS,of G.E. Potscrubber parts some guy on ebay had a box that said G.E. dishwasher parts not sure whats in it but want it gone.I got it all for 30 bucks it had 5 new pumps and motors,wheels,spray,everything in it.There is a old Magic chief down in the basement kitchen at our farm that we got in 83 and that dishwasher still runs perfect but is loud as hell.I can hear that tower hit that door vent always I guess that is why I have always loved those Potscrubber dishwashers well the noise puts me to sleep I can't stand a quite room.