DOE PRESS RELEASE - Washer Capacity Claims

[Pingmeep]

I love the idea of using a natural gass dryer but every one I've tested is far harsher on clothing than conventional or condensing. High peaks and troughs in output. The fact that my house insurance would also go up and that I would need to up the supply line really hurts too.

If hydro rates keep going up (someone has to subsidize all that green renewable energy here) I may consider one. Right now though my 4cubic foot condesor dryer is saving me almost 32% of what similar loads cost on my old Maytag dryer. When you factor in not paying to heat and cool all the air that would be blown outside the savings might even be higher.

 

[3beltwesty]

Gas dryer payback

RE "but it is just as stupid if not more so to use an electric clothes dryer if gas is available."

Actually an electric dryer is really not 3 to 4 times as costly compared to gas. At best for pure heating one gains a factor of 3 due to the thermodynamic cycle. In reality here it is at best about 2 since the gas heat flame adds back water vapor; in an area that is basically already a damp swamp. Ie the electric coil adds no water vapor and the gas flame does.

Here with a typical wash load I do the electric dryer if it runs 1/2 hour and on half the time draws 5400 *.25= 1.35 KWHR. My actual measurements are all over the place; about 0.5 to 2; with 1 to 1.5 KWHR being typical as measured numbers with a dial KWHR meter in series. With the 1.35 KWHR number my drying cost is thus 1.35 * 14.5= 19.6 cents.

if I switch to a gas dryer I say 1 dime a load; 25 cents per week; about 13 dollars per year.

if I go to Home Depot and buy the cheapest dryer it is 373 with tax dollars. Figure about 150 for a registered plumber to pull a permit and install a new gas cock by the gas dryer. Now I have 523 in the new gas dryer and I will break even in about 523/13= 40 years.

If I do a jackleg illegal non permited gas connection; the payback is shorter; about 373/13= 29 years

Here I often use the close line during the summer; thus the payback is longer.

the real benefit of using gas here is the gas typically is still one after a hurricane and one has no power; and one can run a gas dryer with little electrical; ie small generator.

Here my house insurance premium factors in not using a gas dryer too; it is tad higher If I get a gas dryer' ie more than the actual 13 dollar gain I save.

The real reason my dad got a electric dryer in 1947 was the apartment building he rented then had electric and no gas for tenents washer and dryers. Later in 1976 the cost of the gas versus electric dryer was really nil; rates were low. The electric dryer was bought like already mentioned; easier on the clothes, less damage. ie one saves the planet by not not going through clothes like mad.

RE "Also while the average American may do 2.5 washes per week the average American washing machine in a primary residence does 6-7 loads weekly. I wonder if they take collectors like you into their skew. ;-) "

The average house in the USA really has not many folks living in them; about 2 to 2.5 per household.

Thus "American washing machine in a primary residence does 6-7 loads weekly." would imply here that 2.25 folks are washing 6.5 baskets of clothes each week. ie 2.9 baskets per person per week. ie each person fills up a basket in 2.4 days. A super model might do that; but not an average Joe.

In this area with the Katrina exodus and population decline; it is often about 1.5 to 2 folks per home. About all have a washer and a dryer.

 

[neptunebob]

I wonder though how well your Westinghouse washer spins out the clothes. Since there was lots of polyester in the 70s one did not need a high spin speed to get the clothes dry. Now with Dockers all cotton, it helps to have a washer that spins out the washer.

 

[combo52]

3beltwesty

Your cost figures are way off you can't dry a 10-12lb load of clothes with just 15 minutes of heater on time in any dryer I have ever seen. You may dry 6 mens dress shirts in 30 minutes. I will compile the data to support the operational cost savings of gas vs electric dryers when I get a chance. But in most cases of doing 6-10 loads per week in a gas dryer will make cost of purchase free after aprox 5 years and pay for itself many more times over its 15-30 year life span. Thats a better payback than any stock or other investment you will likely ever make plus using a gas dryer causes only one 1/3 the carbon dioxide to be emitted into the atmosphere as using an electric one does. So you are saving the planet as well.

 

[3beltwesty]

Maybe the issue is your washer does not extract water so wel

Combo; Your numbers are wet; ie not dried.

Here a typical load here is not 10-12lb load of clothes ; it is less. With the new LG washer it spins the clothes fairly dry; ie the dryer really needs little work.

If I washed your "You may dry 6 mens dress shirts in 30 minutes" case I am taking out the shirts after about say 5 to 15 minutes and placing them on hangers. At 15 minutes time they would be so crisp; ie real dumb since one now has to iron the stuff.

Things like dress shirts here are removed while not bone dry purposely; to reduce the chances of wrinkles. One just hangs them on hangers when they are about dry.

Maybe the issue is your washer does not extract water so well?

THUS Here RE "But in most cases of doing 6-10 loads per week in a gas dryer will make cost of purchase free after aprox 5 years and pay for itself many more times over its 15-30 year life span. "

does not apply. To wash that amount of clothes I will have to find a younger wife and have 6 kids; then it will make sense.

Here with any actual glass dial 240V watt hour meter in series; I have actual data. The actual KWHR's is like:

"Here with a typical wash load I do the electric dryer if it runs 1/2 hour and on half the time draws 5400 *.25= 1.35 KWHR. My actual measurements are all over the place; about 0.5 to 2; with 1 to 1.5 KWHR being typical as measured numbers with a dial KWHR meter in series. With the 1.35 KWHR number my drying cost is thus 1.35 * 14.5= 19.6 cents. "

I actually only save 10 cents per wash load if I switch to gas. To buy a gas dryer for me has no payback. My total cost savings is only 25 cents per week; 13 bucks per year. My house insurance will go up more than that amount. Thus If I win a free gas dryer and have free intall; it still costs me more since my fire insurance rises more than 13 bucks per year.

Thus *HERE* the venture has a negative rate of return and not done.

Here it really only makes sense for me if a start a giant family; then number of washes increases; the savings are then more than the insurance cost increase.

Real I was raised no to be wastefull ie not take on projects that have no returns.

The current dryer is already 35 years old dn well made; I really do not it buy into buying a new gas dryer for 500 bucks wtih install; that has a negative rate of return. You are free to fill landfills; here I this as ruining the planet. The old machine will last another 35 years. The motor, coil,belt are common; I have a brand new timer too. Maybe this is why so many are in financial troubles; they chase bad investments.

The dumb dryer here costs me about 1.35 Kwhr per load for *MY* average 2.5 loads a week. I burn about 15 KWHR per month with the dryer; *IF* it is raining and I do not use the clothes line. This costs me 2.18 dollars per month. This is actual measured consumption.

As a reference; that government kickbacked TV converter I have if left plugged it draws 9 watts 24/7 . In one month if left plugged in consumes 6.5 KWHR ie 9x24x30= 6.48 If I just unplug this converter box when not used I save as much as the gas dryer would; and I have no added insurance premium too.

Here about the largest electrical costs are ones Air conditioners one runs. In the summer one might have a 100 to 150 buck electrical bill; depending on how hot and how humid one wants to be inside.

If the electrical bill is say 120 dollars in July; one has 2.18 for the dryer ; the LED and CFL timed night lights are a few bucks too. The fridge here costs about 10 per month.

For me the 1992 Fridge costing 10 per month is the major thing slated to be replaced; since replacement makes cents from a money energy standpoint.

Buying a gas dryer will never be done unless it makes sense to do so. ie why be wastefull?

 

[3beltwesty]

Here even the cost of ones gas bill is not a lot for heating water. If I use zero Natural gas I still get about a 9 dollar gas bill; just to check the meter, If it is a business the bill is about 23 with zero usage. Ie you are a business; thus you help subsidize the homeowners bill.

If the hot water tank of 40 gallons is used up every day with showers due to relatives for a month; the home gas bill is about 20 bucks. ie the house used 30x40=1200 gallons of hot water. This delta cost was thus about 11 dollars for the 1200 gallons. ie about 0.92 cents per gallon.

If one uses the old 1976 washer and it uses the hot cycle; one uses 10 gallons of hot water. This would be thus 9.2 cents in cost per load for the added hot cycles cost via the above rough swag.

Note this 9.2 cents is about the same as the other estimate far above of 10 cents with gas:

(1) FULL HOT To heat the 10 gallons of water from 60 to 140F is a 80 F difference. 10 US gallons weighs about 83 Lbs. To heat 83 Lbs 80 F is 83x80= 6640 BTU. Via electric this is about 1.94 KWHR worth of energy (6640/3414). at electric rates here this would be 14.5 cents/KWHR (1.94)= 28 cents. *****Since Here I am using natural gas this really costs about 1/3; ie 10 cents ie 1/10 US dollar. *****

In summary the electrical heater in a modern FL washer is not so bad; the expensive source of heat is made up with it being local and thus it is a "wash" compared to me using a gas not water heater.

In folks who are environmentalists here and somewhat off the grid; they often have a solar hot water heater and the internal electrical heater is NOT used. In California this was a fad at times, ie late 1970's even with older machines.