does anyone have vintage pre-1987 central air condtioners, forced-air gas furnaces, and thermostats?

[fonografmaniac]

if yall want to know why i asked this because i'm fascinated vintage pre-1987 hvac units and love to see photos of some of them. if you have any of those rare vintage ge hvac units definitely post them.

 

[red_october]

1979 Vintage Burnham gas-fired furnace

This is in my parents' house. Thanks to my mom's handywork with a china marker, you can tell who our gas supplier is.

 

[red_october]

Here's the nameplate and soforth.

I actually had no idea it was this old 'til I cracked it to make these photographs. (house was built around 1982)

 

[petek]

Our 1957 house still has its original Honeywell roundie thermostat. I will be replacing it shortly with a new Honeywell digital roundie because it is now so far out of calibration. Set at 65 keeps the house at about 72.
That thing to the left of it in the picture is just a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer I use to get the correct temps.
We have hot water heating not forced air but I'll show you a pic of the original 1957 Hoffman boiler that still heating this place.

 

[petek]

Here's the furnace, errr boiler, still works like a charm. This is the first house I've ever had or lived in with hot water heating rather than forced air and I have to say that I like hot water heating much better because it's quiet and it keeps the house temperature much more even, not as much temperature swings. Since you can't have central air with this there is a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim upstairs

 

[fonografmaniac]

my dads house has a round honeywell from 1999 when he replaced the old 1970 2-ton ge central air unit with a high efficiency bryant air conditioner of the same tonnage. the old t-stat was the same type too. the furnace is a 1986 rheem 80+. he still has the paper for both units.

 

[fonografmaniac]

well, petek i have a whalen heat pump where i live at in an 4-story apartment building. it has a compressor inside it with a water-cooled condensor coil which the water absorbs the heat from the condensor coil and dumps it outside through a cooling tower made by bac (baltimore aircoil company) during the cooling season. during the heating season the cooling towers are turned off and a boiler is turned on. the hot water from boiler is then cirulated through that water-cooled coil i mentioned earlier, but now you have the t-stat set to heat so you can reverse the refrigerant cycle. once you do that and the unit's running now the heat is absorbed from the water coil and dumped out of the air coil and into the space being heated.

here's a photo of that unit

 

[fonografmaniac]

the t-stat for that unit

 

[rickr]

How about a gravity one from 1941?

1941 Lennox. This is a very comfortable heating system. No drafts, and a nice even heat. I have no intent to replace it, even though I must use window units in the summer.

I have lived here since 1979. In all those years, I have only had to replace the transformer for the thermostat. I replaced the original stat with a programable type in 1989. That stat was upgraded to a day by day programable stat five years ago.

If you are to look close, you can see that there are two gas valves installed in the line. The original valve stuck in the open position in 1957. My grandparents owned the house then, and were away at church the Sunday the valve stuck. The furnace just kept pumping the heat out in the meantime. When my grandparents came home, the house was like a blast furnace. The varnish on the woodwork was sticky, they said! I am sure the furnace would have burned the house down, if nobody had returned home. To be on the safe side, they added an additional gas valve. That way, if one valve stuck open, the other would shut the furnace off.
I tested the valves in 2005, and found the original valve to be stuck open again. The valve that I replaced is the smaller gray valve. I do not know when the original valve stuck open for the second time. It could have been right after it was "repaired" in 1957, or a few years before I tested both valves in 2005.
At any rate, I feel safer with two working gas valves on this vintage furnace.

This pixs was taken of the fans really, the furnace was just in the background. :>

 

[fonografmaniac]

looks like it has those octopus-like ductwork.

 

[fonografmaniac]

i'm digging those fans rickr especially the one on the left

 

[rickr]

gas valve replacement 1957

Yeah, it takes up a lot of room! I could get more washers in that room if I bought a new furnace. I had an est. in 1987. It was $6000.00, and they said I would need a/c window units in the bedrooms upstairs. I said, no way!! I already HAVE window units upstairs! Whats the point???

If I had replaced this furnace in 1987. I would need a replacement again by now. By keeping this one, I do not need a replacement, even though I need window units in the bedrooms. (and one huge one downstairs) <:

 

[rickr]

gas price est for 1946

After the war, there was a big push around here, to get people to switch to gas heating from coal. My grandparents had already done that prior to the war, but when the gas people came they let them do the evaluation for est. cost anyway, just to see how close it was. At any rate, it would be nice to pay these gas prices today wouldn't it?? <:

BTW: the fan on the left is a Westinghouse from the 1920's the one on the right is a G.E. from the 1930's. I use the G.E. on the first floor in the summer to distribute the cool air from the huge window A/C.

 

[toggleswitch]

Hi Rick R. *WAVES*

I'd be very curious to see the ductwork at the TOP of your classic Lennox. Can I entice you to take a snap of it?

With a mili-volt pilot generating system, [no transformer needed] you could make this thing totally non-electric (read: works in a blackout!)
By the way "warm-air system" implies/signifies fan-forced"hot-air system" implies/signifies gravity convection.
Is there an actual temperature-limiting thermostat on, in or near the furnace or plenum for safety?
oh yeah, a fan and a high-wall return WOULD allow for central A/C........... trick may be to ensure a LOW winter/heating speed to enjoy draft-free heating and a higher cooling speed. Most systems ovelook this important comfort factor of two speed fans for different seasonal needs.

I must say it is truly unique and interesting! Most heating in this area in residences is hot water or steam, but not air. This is proably due to earliest apartment buildings having steam systems with radiators.

 

[rickr]

Hey Steve Wave back...
Am sorry that I cannot photograph the top area of the furnace. The digital camera that I usually borrow from work was stolen! (they didn't get much....)
At any rate, the top has a "bonnet" of heavy gauge steel, and it reaches 8 inches from the rafters in the basement. The bonnet is where the hot air pipes attach to the furnace. The cold return is the huge pipes at the bottom of the furnace.
There is a limit switch installed in the bonnet, which is set at 250 degrees. Remember however, if the gas valves were to both stick, the limit switch would not be able to turn the burners off. In fact, this furnace came with the limit switch for safety. It just did no good with the gas valve stuck open.
I don't really understand what you mean about operating this furnace with minivolts. What would power the stat, both gas valves and the limit switch then?

 

[sudsmaster]

As I recall, the horizontal forced air gas furnace in the crawl space is circa 1981. I forget the brand, but there is documentation on it... just have to find it... also have a couple of vintage manual thermostats - rectangular with mercury switches. I replaced the one in the house with a nice Lux digital set-back model, but kept the old ones - there's even a vintage original box for one of them over in one of garage cabinets.

I'll try to fetch out the old thermostats and documentation this weekend. Don't know if I want to venture down into the crawl space, but if I do, I'll snap a photo of the furnace when I'm down there.

No central AC here - not really needed. At most I need to run one or two small window AC units about seven days each year. The rest of the time I just cool down the house with large fans at night, shut it up in the morning, and come home to a house that's easily 20 degrees cooler than outdoors.

I am planning on eventually replacing the old furnace with a more efficient one. The one down there is 100,000 BTU, which is really overkill once I weather-proofed and insulated the home to modern standards. I figure I could get by with a 50,000 to 70,000 BTU unit no problem.

When I was cleaning out the workshop last month I found some old burner units, which must have been for the old furnace for the home. Those went into the recycle bin - I couldn't see hanging onto them any longer.

 

[petek]

I pray I don't have to replace this old boiler. The other great thing about it is that it holds a lot of residual heat and keeps this basement toasty warm all winter long. My moms basement, she has a hi efficiency Carrier forced air in the basement, is never as comfortable as my basement and I've fiddled with her duct/vents down there but it ends up making the main floor too cool in the winter. She doesn't use the downstairs rek room and workshop anyways,,just the laundry room every few days. I've compared our monthly gas bills, my house is considerably bigger than moms yet our gas bills are much the same. Whether a new hi efficiency boiler is going to save me any money I just don't know but I don't want to go spending $8 grand or whatever they cost and have to wait a lifetime to recoup the cost and reap any savings if any.

 

[dalangdon]

We had this oil furnace until last year, when the oil company told us that they wouldn't warantee it anymore.

Since we had an offer from the gas company to put in gas for free if we would convert, we decided it was time to change. I'm glad, because it let us get the gas version of the Fabulous 400.

The new furnace is like 1/8 the size of this beast

 

[polkanut]

Sorry, no pics,

My Mom's parents converted from coal to gas in 1962 and had an Iron Fireman furnace installed at that time, and it is still going strong today. That baby can sure pump out the heat. The only repair to date has been a new burner, and that was 20yrs. ago.

 

[toggleswitch]

LOVE this topic/thread, BTW!

~I don't really understand what you mean about operating this furnace with minivolts. What would power the stat, both gas valves and the limit switch then?

YES.
A pilot flame licking a special thermocouple (heat sensor) that has two dis-similar metals generates a small voltage (1/1,000th of a volt or something-- hence milli-volt (sp?)) this voltage flows through the thermostat, the limit thermostat and powers a SPECIAL gas valve. No transformer or line voltage neded.

I did not take into account two gas valves. Don't know if there is enough power to open two.

Thanks for the response!

Then again if what you have is a 24v control system (which is the usual), two car batteries (in series) and a car-battery charger to keep them "full" will get you through blackouts just as well. Just don't let the transformer get any power from the 24v (secondary) side!

Best regards,
-Steve

The text in the link is not so clear and misleading (jumps around in concept), and between systems; but see the 2nd line in the grid, below the text. This is what I was referencing!

http://toad.net/~jsmeenen/gassystem.html

 

[seamusuk]

Asbestos......

Is there not an Asbestos danger with some of these- Rick particually yours from 1941? guess it could have been removed at some point tho?

Seamus

 

[toggleswitch]

Millivolt Gas Valve

750 millivolts =
750/1,000 or 0.75v, I would assume.

Powerpile = thermopile = thermocouple.

Question is, can such voltage open TWO?

Perhaps one of these and one as you currently have (piped in series) with a by-pass so you can manualy route the gas (via piping and a valve) around the electric-opeated one in a blackout.

http://www.myhvacparts.com/Catalogue/Gas Furnace Controls/Robertshaw 700 Gas Valves.htm

 

[toggleswitch]

~Is there not an Asbestos danger with some of these- Rick particually yours from 1941? guess it could have been removed at some point tho?

As long as asbestos is not friable, it is generally considered to be safe.

As long as there is no asbestos in the air-flow "circuit" I personally woeuld not fret too much over it, if at all.

If there is asbestos in the combustion chamber, I'm thinikng any released will float up and out of the chimney, which would not affect (in theory) the occupants of the home.

 

[tolivac]

I don't have any pictures of the system-but a govt building I worked in had a Carrier 1939 vintage chilled water system AC-was one of the first govt buildings to be airconditioned.The Carrier chiller had Crocker-Wheeler 700hp motors on them and ran from 2500v 3ph.they had to be started locally and manually.the new Trane units use half the power and have twice the capacity.They can be started by one button or even remotely from a control center in another building.Its planned to have them start and stop automatically with no intervention at all in the future.The heat came from steam from the Capitol Hill Power plant.The plant provided heat and electric power for Govt buildings in downtown Wash DC-the one I was in included.The place I worked in had both Capitol Hill power and commercial power-and a large deisel generator.the cooling system for the studios was a separate chilled water system that had two Trane chillers with Dunmore-bush units as backup.I was shown how to transfer them in an emergency.And the computer-mainframe area also had its own chilled water cooling system using Worthington chillers.At the transmitter they used to have two 150ton cap Worthington units that now have been replaced by Carrier chillers.have to reset them on occasion during VERY HOT weather.Gives the compressors hi temp and hi pres overloads.

 

[chromacolor]

This system was in my house until I replaced it last year. It's a 1963 Sears Homart. The furnace worked fine but I was having problems with the central air that was added in 1997. The system kept freezing up. I called the repair company that the original owner had used, and they had to make 4 trips out before figuring what the problem was (and it took the owner coming out who hadn't been on a call in years to figure it out)The blower was a belt drive pulley system and the owner of the company remembered that they had to change the pully out each summer for faster air flow. He told me the furnace would last forever, but it was never designed for central air and was hard on the AC unit. Also efficiency was nill.
I decided to replace with a new Frigidaire matched system.
However I have not noticed much savings on the gas bill, but that may be due to the rising cost of natural gas.
I now wish I would have kept the old system in use. I would be $5000 richer now... LOL!

View attachment 9-29-2007-08-02-30--chromacolor.jpg

 

[chromacolor]

Picture of 1963 Sears Furnace

my pix doesn't seem to want to load. I'll try one more time.

 

[jasonl]

I remember when I was small, we had a 70s Carrier central AC/Heat with Honeywell roundie. My grandparents had an earlier GE Central Air. The original motor used to make a distinctive sound on startup, kind like a vintage fan.

Sorry, I have no pics, only memories.

 

[dalangdon]

Tim, I used to see a lot of those old coal/gas conversions back in the midwest. My Grandma had one, and one of my mom's friends still does. They look cool as hell, but they take up SO much SPACE!

I see electric forced air furnaces from time to time in customer's homes. The utility really pushed those in the 50's & 60's. Some of them are quite stylish (for a furnace, anyway) but they cost frightening amounts of money to run.

 

[volvoguy87]

Don't replace the Roundie, its not broken!

Pete, don't replace your Honeywell Roundie thermostat, it's not broken. Those operate with a mercury switch, and the thermostat must be absolutely level to be accurate. Try leveling your thermostat and see if that fixes it. Take off the front cover and there should be a line on the back, just get a small level, hold it up to the line, and loosten the screws, turn the thermostat housing until its level, tighten the screws, and put the cover on and test.
The mercury switch is a glass vile with a drop of mercury in it. The vile is attached to a bi-metal coil. As the temperature changes, the coil expands and contracts, tilting the glass vile left and right. The drop of mercury slides to whichever end of the vile is lower, one end has the electrical contacts in it. When the drop of mercury hits both contacts, it completes the circuit and turns the system on, when the vile tilts the other way, the mercury leaves the contacts and the system shuts off. If the thermostat isn't level, the vile won't be at the right angle, so just level it.

Mercury is dangerous in nature, so don't juust throw away a perfectly good Roundie,
Dave

 

[fonografmaniac]

yo j, was that ge unit the uprite ones with the round dome-shaped fan grill? my dads house used to have that kind. itz from 1970 and it came with the house when it was built.