Dont leave candles burning

[laundryboy]

My parents rent their lake house by the week in the summer and this bunch of renters decided to lite candles and go shopping. The house is a total loss and was fully furnished, just underwent a full remodel in the kitchen..

 

[sudsmaster]

Idiots.

I hope the place was fully insured. Probably a no brainer for a rental property.

I learned in the Boy Scouts many eons ago that you never leave a campsite without making sure the campfire was completely out - cool to the touch. Same applies for any open flame in the house.

 

[rp2813]

That is downright negligent behavior. What a beautiful house that must have been.

 

[goatfarmer]

No doubt, negligent! Hope your parents make out with the settlement.

 

[tolivac]

IDIOTS!!! Time to narrow the gene pool!!I try to shut down most everything before I leave home.

 

[thomasortega]

I-D-I-O-T-S!

Never leave home if there's something burning!

The same is valid for the dryer or something in the oven.

Also.... If they had fire sprinklers, the damages would be very smaller... maybe less than 1 square meter.

NO MATTER HOW EXPENSIVE IS TO INSTALL FIRE SPRINKLERS IN YOUR HOME, DO IT!

 

[passatdoc]

My mother rented her summer place in the Hamptons to a woman who brought her son and grandchildren. The son, a 40-something attorney, decided to light a fire in the fireplace (in 80 degree weather in August...) and neglected to open the flue. There was smoke damage to the paint which will cost close to $10K to repair. After they noticed the smoke, they didn't open the flue and instead ran the A/C, thinking it would disperse the smoke. Idiotws.

The woman took out a renter's policy, as required by the lease, but the policy did not cover smoke damage. My parents will not refund the security deposit (which is enough to cover perhaps 25% of the repair costs) and they will have to go to court to collect the rest. Small claims court in NY State evidently allows claims of up to $5K, and that amount plus the deposit would come close to repair costs, so they will that route.

My mother doesn't want to place a claim with her own insurance policy as it will trigger a rise in her premiums (for stupidity she did not cause). Her list of instructions for the renters included "how to open the flue in the fireplace" but the bozos didn't read the instructions.

Not that I would EVER leave a candle burning when I wasn't present, but not opening the flue is even more egregious, in that there will be trouble ANY time you start a fire with the flue closed, and the tenants were present in the house when the trouble started and didn't know how to manage the situation. Leaving candles unattended, while dangerous, is not guaranteed to burn down the house, though unfortunately that was the case for your parents. I feel very bad about it. Does their insurance cover it? Or were the renters required to take out an insurance policy?

 

[sudsmaster]

Speaking of safety

A friend of mine unplugs every counter top small appliance in their kitchen when it's not in use. I thought it was a bit of overkill, but he said his father trained him to do that. In the days of cloth insulated power cords it was probably necessary. Not so sure today with modern plastic insulated power cords. But I'm sure it doesn't hurt, safety-wise.

 

[kenb]

Speaking of safety

My brother is an electrician and he recommends that all heat generating appliances such as irons, toasters, coffee pots, etc, be unplugged in not in use.

 

[washabear]

Unplugging

I never thought about unplugging appliances until I had a mishap some years ago while living in an apartment. I had some clean dishes in a dish rack on the kitchen counter. Next to the dish rack was a toaster oven. One day I went off to work as usual. During the day, a bowl rolled off the dish rack, hit the toaster oven lever, and turned it on. Fortunately, there was no fire, but the apartment was filled with smoke when I got home, and the counter top beneath the glowing toaster oven was badly burned. I have always unplugged small appliances since then. Granted, I probably should have situated things differently in that kitchen, but the thought that something like that could happen never even occurred to me at the time.

Laundryboy, so sorry this happened. I hope your parents are able to get an appropriate restoration.

 

[maytagbear]

I am so sorry-

When something like this can be prevented by using some common sense......!

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[laundryboy]

Yeah they were fully insured for the house and the contents, the renters have asked for their security deposit back, I think its going to cost more than their deposit to fix, the house was tore down today. Its sad, the house was built in 1887 and was in my family for 4 generations..

 

[whirlcool]

I have a lack of patience with stupid people,

or should I say people with no common sense at all.

Back in the late 80's my crazy sister and her stupid husband came for a visit at our house. We were going to make dinner that night so we went shopping at the grocery store while my sister and her husband relaxed at home.
We came in from our shopping trip to find the living room, den and kitchen full of smoke! And I mean dense dark smoke. My sister and her husband were sitting on the sofa. The first thing they said was "isn't that a nice fireplace you have there?". They had forgotten to open the flu and stacked three of those chemical fire logs in the fireplace and ignited them!
Idiots! And needless to say the walls and 14' ceiling were painted white in that room just a few months before!

How do people like this make it through life? It's beyond me!

 

[oldhouseman]

People have

become so used to modern heat/ac units and forgotten how to use fireplaces, woodstoves, candles, oil lamps, etc..

I employ the use of candles and oil lamps but I put gas logs in my fireplaces. Since my house is over 200 years old there is no way I would take a chance on using the fireplaces with a wood burning fire. It's just to dangerous even if I put liners in the chimneys. I also grew up in a house that was heated by fireplaces and a wood burning stove so I learned the proper use of them.

There is really no excuse for this. I'm really sorry for your loss.

 

[jaxsunst]

What do you mean they asked for their security deposit back!? They totaled the house! How can they possibly rationalize that?

 

[filter-flo_rob]

Lighting.

We use candles, kerosene lighting and gas lighting as much as we can. I installed a gas fixture several months ago (gas jet and not one with a mantle) and I like the colour of the light it casts. I run it from a small propane tank and rest assured that the valve on the tank is OFF when not in use.

Dahm Whirlcool, that must have been quite a shock to have walked into your house. " How do people like this make it through life? It's beyond me!"--I have no idea. Scary, is it not; and this is the norm ... (retracting claws now).

Heating completely with wood is something we're going to try this winter. Have any of you had/used those tubes for grates that heat up the air? (hmmm, does this warrant a new thread?)

Rob.

 

[toggleswitch2]

I'm very sorry to hear of your devastating loss.

~What do you mean they asked for their security deposit back!? They totaled the house! How can they possibly rationalize that?

Actual answer (probably): HA HA HA HA!

Better answer: Actually we will be billing you and your insurance company for the difference between what our insurance comapny allow us and the actual (higher) cost to rebuild, refurnish and get it operational. BTW what is your mother's maiden name, your SS#, your bank account number and your empoyer's address? We need to start those slalary garnishments, and the lien against YOUR house right about now. ASAP!

I'll be sure to send you a candle with the subpoena!

Return of security deposit?
As my 6th grade teacher used to say:
How bold. How brazen. What un-mitigated gall and nerve!

Actually how about a court-ordered sterilization of the party resposible AND their spouse for allowing such a stupid thing.

 

[toggleswitch2]

...and not to mention the unnecessary risk of a fire

~We use candles, kerosene lighting and gas lighting as much as we can.

Uhm, why would you want to reduce the quality of the indoor air to the point that is is hazardous to your health?

There is a REASON that electric lighitng took over from open- flame lighting at lightning speed.

If nothing else all that carbon build-up on the walls, floors, ceilings, curtains, furniture, windows etc. will cost you a fortune to paint, wash and otherwise clean-up.

If you are off-the-grid. how about 12v lighting and photo-voltiac solar-powered chargers?

 

[filter-flo_rob]

We use gas, kerosene and candles for "mood lighting" if you will. Actually we use lamp oil instead of kerosene as it burns cleaner -- and NEVER unsupervised.

Living in an old house, I'm never worried about the indoor air being polluted!

Rob.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Unless there are beans for dinner.

O. I. C.

 

[filter-flo_rob]

heh heh heh ... don't want any unnecessary explosions.

Actually, we have a few carbon filament light bulbs we use occasionally, but in all honesty, they burn hotter than kerosene lamps! I especially like the light output and colour on those.

Rob.

 

[whirlcool]

Rob,
Those heated tube things for the fireplace are called heatalators. My brother up in Indianapolis has one and it does a nice job of heating the room up. Make sure you get one that has a fan built into it so it circulates the heated air around the room. I have also seen those built into a fireplace with the output air vents near the top of the mantle. Those also work very well.

 

[jbuscemi]

I heat my home up north with coal & wood. I even cook with coal and often use kerosene lamps. The point is that you MUST understand how to use these things. Chimneys MUST be kept scrupulously clean. dampers on stoves ,ranges and furnaces must be properly regulated . All combustable materials must be a safe distance from the source of heat . These sound liks trite sayings but they are most important. As far as candles and or lamps go NEVER leave them unattended. I am always amused when you go to a party and the host or hostess has a small candle burning in the bathroom..what a source for disaster. I taught in a one room school where our heat came from a box stove and you learned how to treat a stove with respect for not only your life was on the line but so were the lives of my 18 students. Hearting with solid fuel is perfectly safe provised you make it your business to learn how to use it safely. It is a shame what happened to that nice old lake house. Carelessness and stupidity are the fault. I fear that this winter , if it is a cold one there will be many people burning wood and coal without knowing what they are doing. In some cases, managing areange stove or furnace is quickly becoming a lost skill..like blacksmithing or harness making! I fear there will be many fires due to a lack of knowledge . Hopefully I am wrong. And I am NOT 125 years old!

 

[sudsmaster]

Oldhousegreg,

You could put in one of the new super-efficient wood burning inserts, the kind with catalytic converter, and by code that would need to have a stainless steel chimney liner (really a relatively small diameter ss tube) all the way to the top of the chimney. That would circumvent the old leaky chimney issue. And if you have a steady supply of firewood it could be very economical as well. Initial cost, however, would probably be a couple grand, maybe more depending on labor rates and material cost in your area.

The chimney liner for super-efficient inserts is needed because the flue gases are cooler than with a normal fireplace, and hence they tend to condense in a large bricked chimney and cause corrosion. The small diameter liner helps to keep the flue gases hot to the top and resists any corrosion.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[jeb]

heating with wood or coal

I grew up in a house heated entirely with wood and or coal. First the fireplace ( with a grat-o-lator ) then a wood/coal heating stove in the kitchen then a wood/coal furnace add on in the basement( this is a heating stove that sits beside your regular furnace and is connected to your furnace ductes and blows heat up through the house). We learned very early dampering- to get the most heat, banking coals- to have some to start in the morning, ect... We also learned to get up and get dressed in rooms where you could almost see you breath, take quick shower in a very cold bathroom and to sleep in sweatsuits. We also learned to split wood, carry heavy ash bucket and hand carry fist sized lumps of coal throught the coal fields- enough to fill a pick up truck, then come home and unload it. (again all by hand). I hated it all so much that the very first check, from my very first checking account, that i got with my very first paycheck, from my first job, (Check 0001) was to someone who delivered and stacked wood. I told my parents that was my contribution to the woodpile and if it wasn't enough I would buy another load, but I would never cut or split wood, or carry coal again-- and to this day I haven't. I also rember my mothers constant battle with the coal dust. She washed and iron the curtains and drapes frequently (or they turned gray) and all walls were washed atleast twice a year. Regular dusting was even a pain because coal dust is slightly oily and hard to remove.

 

[whitekingd]

Good, God!

What as loss!! I am so sorry to hear this for your family. What a tragedy for you family. I have lots of vintage radios and appliances in my house. I go through every one before I plug them in to see how the wiring and components are. If they look good, I plug them in for a few days, and unplug them at night. If they pass the test, then I will leave them plugged in. Your family's renters were par for the course. It's not mine, so I don't care!! An heirloom of sorts lost. I am sorry for you.

 

[filter-flo_rob]

A comment from the posting by John Buscemi: I fear that this winter , if it is a cold one there will be many people burning wood and coal without knowing what they are doing.

I hear you!!!! I'm really concerned about this as well. We firefighters are beefing-up our training and preparing for such things this winter. I'm forever amazed at such casual attitudes using potentially dangerous items: from a wood stove to a candle. Lack of knowledge and education is one thing, lack of respect is another. I often wonder what happened to "common sense!"

Rob.

 

[oldhouseman]

Rich, that's

what I wanted to do in at least one of the fireplaces (we have 7) but the insurance company told us they would cancel the policy if we installed it. For me the hard part of restoring the place has not been the work as much as it has been the bank, insurance company and the historic trust. They have all reset my priorities at one time or another.

I grew up with these materials and know how to use them. But I know people who I would not trust to lite a candle. One of my neighbors burned their house down two years ago on Christmas eve. They had lit over a dozen candles for a christmas display and left them burning when they went to bed. They woke up to find the entire house engulfed and were lucky to get out the bedroom windows. The house was a total loss. They rebuilt the house and I could not believe it when I saw them using the same type of christmas display in the living room last year. Some people never learn I guess.

 

[sudsmaster]

Greg,

My home was built in '41 with a fireplace in the living room. When I moved in there was an old fake log set in it - the kind that has a motor driven drum with red/orange printed plastic covering. You put a lightbulb inside and it's supposed to similate flames. But the noise of the motor kind of kills any ambience, lol.

Around 1975, the kitchen and one bedroom of the house were remodeled into a continuous kitchen/family room, with a fireplace added in the family room. There was another fake log set in that fireplace - this one used thermal curents from the light bulb to spin the drum. That fireplace has never seen a real flame, and I've kept it that way. In fact although I enjoy a fire on a rainy night, I've never lit a fire in either one (the original one from '41 of course has seen plenty of fires). I picked up a cheap insert on Craigslist a while back, but it's so ugly (think thin brass plating over steel) that it's been sitting the carport ever since.

As part of weatherizing the home I serviced the dampers so they close properly, and also fitted plexiglass inserts into the openings. You can't tell they are there with the screens in place. I know they are doing the job because the thermally driven fake log set won' work any more - there's not enough air circulation in there to create a thermally driven air flow.

The only time I exercised bad candle ettiquette was when I was in high school and a girl friend gave me a handmade candle - one of those big ones - about the size of a coke can. It was a dark blue some some sort of abstract design on it (it was SF in the 60's). I set it on the end table by my bed and lit it. Then I fell asleep, waking in the morning to a nearly completely consumed candle, flame very low. Luckily nothing caught fire, but after that I've been very careful with candles.

Nowadays I don't even have many incandescent bulbs at home. Nearly all the lighting is fluorescent, which of course is somewhat safe, temperature-wise, than a hot traditional light bulb. Of course the fireplace fake logs use incandescent, though.

 

[58limited]

Sorry for your loss. I would be really pissed - I am an amateur historian and the loss of a 100+ year old house would set me off. I won't even post what my response to a request for a deposit refund by these idiots would be. I do know that my insurance company would probably take them to court to try and recoup some of the costs.

I heated with a wood stove in college - a reproduction of an 1840's parlor stove (not very efficient). Even split wood in an ice storm because we didn't do enough in the summer. That one stove could heat a 1200 sq. ft. farm house - I learned pretty quickly how to adjust several box fans to circulate the air through out the house. The stove has now been cleaned up and restored, it sits in my living room on display.

My fireplace has gas logs. I love to run it on cool nights, mostly for ambiance. I even run it in summer sometimes when I want to relax with a book. The fireplace (circa 1940) has a passive "heat-o-lator." It is made of approx. 2" diameter brass tubes (one is missing a small section)and as the fireplace gets hot, the air comes in from under the house and flows out two decorative grates on either side of the fireplace. I have thought about adding a fan, but haven't gotten around to it. This is not really a major heat source for the house anyway.

The brass tubes look like flexi-tubing. I would like to find some of the same diameter so I can repair the tube that has the missing piece, and another tube that has a hole in it.