Drain Problems

[supersurgilator]

We have been having the most unusual problem with our drain lines. Starting in March our main drain started filling up with water (clear to the top of the cleanout plug in the backyard). We first thought it was roots and had a sewer company come and auger the line. They didn't find anything, but got the drain running again. About 3 weeks later the same thing happened again, and they returned only to say that they couldn't find anything wrong and that our only option is to dig up the yard, replace the line. Now after another month, the drain is backed up again. Our bathtub runs away just fine, when we run water in the kitchen sink it gurgles in the toilet, and the toilet will not run away at all. I just wondered what your thoughts on this could be as we have exhausted all of our options besides paying $4,000 to replace the line. Our house is 57 years old, and based on what I have found online, that is about the life span of the main drain system.

 

[yogitunes]

I have a similar issue with my MIL house, and she paid $3500.00 to have the pipe replaced and it still happens, so what I do at the outside cleanout is, and I'm sorry I don't know what its called, but it screws onto the end of the garden hose, and has this expanding bulb to fit tight into the pipe and when you turn on the water, it creates pressure inside the line to blow out any clog/obstruction there may be, works every time!

but anywho, this is what I slide into the drain, and careful to angle it towards the road, where the sewer goes, and turn on the water, in about 15 minutes the drain is running fine

also, we had to have the sewer dept out once to clean the street line out, this also causes a problem, so before I do this, I call them to verify thats its the line in the yard and not in the street, if the problem is in the street, they usually clear out your line from the house to the street for you at no charge, just a thought, theres also no charge to have them come out, at least in my area

can be found at any hardware or plumbing store

 

[qsd-dan]

I have a buddy who replaced the original 5 gallon toilets with new 1.6 ones and had this very problem. Apparently, a lot of older homes have very shallow angled main drain lines and the low flow toilets weren't using enough water to flush the poopyness efficiently. He sold the low flows and reinstalled some old 5 gallons toilets. Problem went away.

Revenge of the environmentalist, yet again.

If your main drain line is 57 years old and cast iron, it may be badly flaking internally, causing the line to plug up more often.

 

[supersurgilator]

Funny you should mention that. The second time the plumber came out he broke out old toilet so we are now the owners of a 1.28 gallon flush model LOL.

 

[toggleswitch]

Here's what works for me. Method I use depends on what is available, and my mood.

Hopefully this will keep the main lines open for you as well.

a) 2 cups of bleach down the drain once or twice a month, flush well. (Buy the cheapest bleach you can find).
b) Some lye-based powdered drain-cleaner one or twice a month.
c) Boil a large pot of water and throw it down the drain.
d) foam or liquid-type residue and build-up remover.

Before I installed a garbage disposer in the kitchen sink, food scraps (within reason) would normally go down the toilet.
Apparently, some large stringbeans got wedged in the main trap and were holding up the toilet-paper from going down, until the whole main line backed up.

The main soil-stack has to be piched just right. Too much or too little pitch and the solids and paper won't get moved out as the liquids move. [this post was last edited: 5/29/2010-23:06]

 

[circlew]

On city sewer or septic system? My Aunt Julie had a problem with water backing up in her shower when other fixtures were used, and found out the drain line near septic tank had shifted, and had a dip in it. She and my Cousin Mike dug up part of the line and replaced it. If you have a tank, it may need to be pumped out, or your leach lines redone (expensive).

It is likely the sewer lateral at a house that age is clay tile - mine was, and the house was built in '53. I was fortunate that it never clogged or got out of alignment. Several of my neighbors had theirs get mis-aligned or collapse, causing dirty water to back up in their basements. I replaced mine recently as part of a major renovation.

If on public sewer, I'd certainly have the sewer dept. come out and check their main. If you're at a low point on the line, the water will collect in your line if the main isn't flowing properly. My neighborhood used to have a great deal of problems with this, and my house - being the lowest on the block - had a nasty backup in the basement numerous times. Talk about a mess!

If the main is clear, I'd call in a company to run a camera through your line to look for the problem. I had Underground Detective come and inspect my underfloor lines to see how they were connected, and assess their condition. It cost around $300.

Good luck with this, and hope you won't have any floods.

 

[sudsmaster]

Cast iron

My understanding is that one of the benefits of cast iron is that it tends to rust in particles, unlike steel, which tends to rust in flakes. This is one reason why gas pipes are made from cast iron (or plastic). The fine iron rust powder tends not to clog pilots and burners as much as the larger steel flakes might.

 

[circlew]

Cast Iron pipes

The C.I. drains I tore out in my 1953 house were still in very good condition, both the soil stack and horizontal runs. The galvanized pipes connected to them were a whole different story - they were in sad shape. I had the plumber use no-hub C.I. drains where exposed in the garage as part of the renovation. They are a little more expensive, but not greatly so.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Has there been any utility work in your area recently?

My brother was having problems with his sewer system. They had Roto-Rooter out and cleaned the line everything went fine for about a month then stopped up again. Had Roto-Rooter out again, about a month later same thing again.

This time Roto-Rooter sent down a camera. What they found was that recently Westar Electric put in some new power poles, when they did so they cut through approximately half of my brother's sewer line. So when the auger went through it cleaned out the line, but only half was running so it stopped up quickly.

Westar has accepted the responsiblilty and will replace the line, now they are going to dig up his sewer approximately seven feet across and nine feed down trench in his yard for 32 feet. Then they have to replace the landscaping and yard.

It may be worth a camera look-see to find out what is going on. Also they may be having back pressure from the main line. With budget cuts our city cut the sewer maintanence to just two crews for a city of 500,000. Some of the older neighborhoods are complaining of back pressure.

 

[supersurgilator]

Not in my immediate area, however about 3 blocks away they are re doing the main stretch of line to make way for a road widening project.

 

[circlew]

"3 blocks away"

That could easily be causing your problem if you're on that line, and happen to be lower than the surrounding buildings. Once my basement flooded due to a clog 2 blocks away.

 

[joelippard]

Oh don't get me started on those damn "new" toilets! I luckily don't have them at home, but we do have several of them at the church where I work. It's a given to just keep a plunger sitting beside of them. I purposely flush them over and over just to make sure all the shit gets out into the sewer lines. You better not even think about putting more than 2 balls of paper in there or you've had it.
Our plumbers told me they've been on numerous calls of stopped up lines because the "new" commodes don't use enough water to push everything out in the lines.

 

[volvoguy87]

Toilets and why I am a historic preservationist.

In the mid 1990s Congress passed a law with the admirable goal of saving water. This reduced the toilet water usage to 1.6 gallons per flush cycle. Many of these toilets suffer from symptoms of a problem I call C.F.S. This stands for "Can't Flush Sh**, literally or figuratively. In order to combat C.F.S., many toilet manufacturers sell toilets with vacuum pumps or compressors. They do work, but they are loud, startling, failure-prone, expensive, and difficult to repair yourself. (I believe a toilet is the one fixture most anyone should be able to attempt basic repairs to because they tend to fail at the most inopportune moments, particularly when you only have one of them.) Rather than use complicated machinery, let's look to history to see if there is a simple solution to this basic problem.

Problem: Weak toilet flush.
Solution: Gravity.

A century ago most toilets utilized a tank of water several feet above the toilet bowl. When the flush valve is opened, the water goes down the pipe toward the bowl accelerating at just over 32 feet per second per second. The result is a more powerful flush than can be achieved from a lower tank with less water. All of this is achieved with no additional moving parts or other equipment.

Gravity has no moving parts, it's free, and if it ever fails, flushing the toilet is the least of our concerns.
Dave

 

[lordkenmore]

I seem to recall hearing that Canada didn't force lower water usage, and some US people would sneak up to Canada to buy their next toilet.

I'm not sure that all low water use toilets are bad. I lived one place in the mid/late 90s that might have had a low water use toilet--and certainly was the newest one in any place I'd lived in, to that date. (Made mid 90s at the latest.) I hated that thing and how easily it clogged. Fast forward to a year ago, when I moved into a place with a toilet that proudly proclaimed: "Low water use!" There appeared to be nothing like pumps to assist it. Much to my surprise, that toilet functioned flawlessly. Which was a great thing. There was a second bathroom, but it was horribly inconvenient (basement level), and--I later learned--the sink right by the toilet had been the home of an impossible-to-kill black widow spider a few months before.

I think the idea of putting the tank higher on the wall is a good idea. The only problem I see is the trouble with fixing the stuff inside. Which suggests another old-time solution--making stuff so it can actually last longer than five seconds after the 90 warranty has ended.

One wouldn't even necessarily need to have the tank on display. It could be possible to arrange a design with a tank and plumbing that's hidden. That allow for a sleek ultra modern looking toilet. Although, I personally think the old time look has a certain charm.

 

[qsd-dan]

In the mid 1990s Congress passed a law with the admirable goal of saving water.

I was BSing with my neighbor and he said back in '91 he couldn't sell his house in San Diego unless there were low flow toilets in every bathroom. That's California for ya

 

[circlew]

Bought two new toilets as part of my remodeling; neither installed as of yet. They are both Kohler. The one for the basement is wall-mount and uses a flush valve (like public restrooms), which will make cleaning easier. The one for the master bath is a one piece that uses what they call "Class Five" technology, which is gravity flush. I hope I'll be pleased with both.

My sister has two toilets - one an Eljer that's about 16 yrs. old, and a Kohler that's 13 yrs. old. There's a world of differece between them. The Eljer is a worthless POS, clogs with more than one piece of tissue, while the Kohler rarely gives them any trouble. I warned her not to buy Eljer, but they didn't listen.