Dual turntables.

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Dual TT-have one in one of my closets that I bought at a yard sale for a couple bucks.The units arm mechanism is froze up.It is a single play unit-not a changer.Forget the model# offhand.This thread may inspire me to drag it out and take a closer look.The last time I did look at it-indeed the motor lived up to the units name---You could strap the windings to run off 120/240V.
Garrad 301 TT Very rarely these show up in small radio stations-regional 1Kw AM and small FM stations.Just replace them with something newer.
TT bases-Broadcast studio TT bases have a large cabinet that you can put bricks,cinder blocks or bags of lead shot to weight them and dampen them.Or the weight of equipment put in the TT base does the job-TT preamps,CD and cassette players.The TT bases usually have a small 19" rack mount in them.
Another strange thing that can happen in AM stations--if the TT has a bad idler wheel causing rumble or WF-that can trip the AM transmitter modulator OL relays.
 
Rex:

It sounds like the old dried out lubrication issue with your turntable. It's important not to "help things along" when trying to operate it. When the turntable operation stiffens up and people do this, parts could break. And depending on the model you have the parts that break may or may not be unobtainium. This is especially true for the 1000 series turntable.

Dual made a rugged product, but they do require maintenance from time to time.
 
Dual made a rugged product, but they do require maintenance

Not unreasonable. Especially in the case of a 40+ year old Dual that has been in storage since Carter left office.

I've seen the issue of lubrication gumming up a time or two. First time was on a PE (which might have been made after Dual absorbed them). The motor absolutely refused to turn. A good oiling and it ran smoothly.

Second time was on a BIC. (Side note: there was apparently a joke that BIC stood for "But It's Cheap.") The platter was totally frozen on that one. I have no idea why it was frozen, but I later learned that it was more than likely the lubrication gumming up and freezing.

Another thought: there is something to be said for something that can be lubricated. A sealed motor that is oiled for life is convenient, but if it reaches the point where the oil gums up, well, it's not a cleaning/oiling, it's a whole new motor...
 
One thing I've been wondering is how well the Dual 10" or so platters work with the beginning of 12" LPs. It seems like the LP could possibly sag slightly on the outside. Not perhaps much of an issue back in the 1960s, but certainly one with more modern, thinner LPs.
 
Most Dual motors can be disassembled so that they can be cleaned and lubricated. They are quiet too. If they make any noise at all they need a lubrication.

You are correct, P&E was a competitor of Dual. Dual eventually bought them and continued to make turntables under the P+E name. They are very similar to Dual turnables. Dual and P+E both made turntables for use in systems made by Grundig, Telefunken, Saba and even Sony for awhile. On the Dual Reference Website there is the complete history of Dual from the beginning in 1900 to the end in 2001.

The 10" platter on Dual turntables is no problem for 33rpm records. The tonearm is so light that it doesn't bother the record at all. Because of the philosophy of a low mass tonearm moving coil cartridges don't work well on Dual turntables. MC cartridges prefer a little more mass than the Dual turntable arm offers.
 
Interesting history.

I noticed this 1987 event:

"Perpetuum-Ebner (P+E) (whose turntable business was previously bought out by DUAL) buys DUAL from Thompson Grand Public, of Paris."

Interesting how that happens sometimes.
 
Allen-can go along with you there-old lube mixed with dust and dirt.Will have to give it the same treatment that I do to radio station TT's take part-clean and lube as good as you can.Have taken apart TT motors for lubing-usually TT motors are pretty simple to service-just haven't gotten to it.Just thought it striking to find a Dual TT at a yard sale for a couple bucks.Beleive it is a 1000 series machine-and single play one.My first Hi-Fi system had a standalone PE turntable.Was a nice machine-it got lost in the Rapid City SD flood of '72.The rest of the Hi-fi setup was a Scott LK48 amp and a pair of Karlsen speaker cabinets with Philips drivers.It sounded rather good.The bass response of that Scott amp was pretty good for only 24W perchannel.It had HUGE output transformers in its output stages!So miss that amp-would like another.
 
When you are ready to clean and relube that turntable let me know, I'll send you the Service Manual for the unit which shows what the lubrication points are.

Be careful when lubricating a Dual turntable. Some parts actually use friction to operate and if you lube or oil the wrong part the turntable won't operate properly. Dual used specific lubricants in specific places on the turntable. The Service Manual outlines what goes where.

As for the history, P+E earlier was bought from Dual by Thomson earlier and then bought Dual from Thomson Electronics of France.They didn't hold on to it very long before they sold it to Schneider of Germany. When Schneider of Germany went bankrupt, they took Dual with them. The company was then out of business. Before the Thomson deal Dual was owned by Ortofon, the cartridge manufacturer.

The history of Dual as I have it listed was taken directly from the last Dual of Germany's website before it was taken down in 2001.
 
That is too bad Dual went down--such fine TT's!!!Dealt with Thomson out here-two of our transmitter had to get parts and tubes thru them.Now it is under a diffrent company-offhand forgot the name.Will let you know when I dig the TT out and can find its model#.Thanks for the help!Good to have stumbled onto a Dual TT man!Then I can have an extra TT.Have several Technics TT's from a radio station -like the Duals better.
 
In the late 80's there was so much consolidation in the audio industry. A lot of European and American audio brands went out of business or were bought out by a conglomerate of some kind and left to die on the vine. Then while this was going on the Japanese brought to market electronics that were much cheaper that grabbed market share. It's almost surprising that Dual lasted as long as it did.

BTW, a Korean company bought the Dual name. In America it's known as Namsumg Electronics of Heathrow, FL. www.dualav.com They make car stereos and speakers in Korea for sale here. It seems the Korean company bought the rights to the Dual name and then sold those off to different companies in different countries so two you can have two Dual products from anywhere in the world and they will probably have been made by two different companies. There is no commonality with this Dual and the former Dual of Germany. Dual in America does sell a turntable, but it's a cheapie model made in Korea.

Walmart at one time sold the new Dual car stereos, but dropped the line after massive reliability issues.
 
Dual link

I know this is an old, old link -but does anyone know if Allen (Whirlcool) moved his Dual website? The link mentioned above is dead.

I have a couple Duals...10XX series. Thanks anyone, if you have any information about the website moving or just being retired by Allen.

Phil
 
Bruce - I have a Miracord 10F, also - just acquired a Fisher Compact Electra VIII(1965) with one in it that works..but needs the usual cleaning and lubing, as it has sat a long time.
 
I have a belt drive

Techniques model SL220. It works, but has a wow and flutter issue. I replaced the belt, it made no difference. Probably in the servo generator circuitry then.
I don't recall it being connected to power when a brown out or surge occurred.
 
Techniques model SL220

Techniques model SL220. It works, but has a wow and flutter issue.

 

It is possible that cleaning the pitch control with some electronic contact cleaner will fix the problem. I know of two Technics direct drive turntables that benefited from this treatment.


[this post was last edited: 8/24/2017-21:11]
 
Thank's John!

I don't remember if I tried that, but I will. I've had it since 1979.
I didn't use it for a long time. It has been in the same covered, but not dust proof cabinet for years and years.
I have many old LP's. I even have a Pickering cartridge, and an Audio Technica each in their own head shell.
 
I still like Elac Miracord better. They will let you stack as many as 12 albums or 45's. Yeah, I know you aren't supposed to do that, but I like to and have a longer playing experience without having to change the record manually.
 
Twelve records?!? That seems like almost too many. One audiophile complaint with changers is that the cartridge setup can only be right for one record in the stack--and so the more records there are, the more deviation one will have.

 

That said, I have heard others comment favorably about Elac Miracords. I recall one person in the modern era talking about them--for him--being better turntables than Duals. I recall another forum comment about one person who ran one when new/fairly new in college for hours a day with zero problems.

 

The one problem with Miracords is that there appears to be more of limited supply of parts out there.

 

As for changers, those generally reviled in audiophile circles. But it's interesting that I saw one post by an audiophile who used a changer for background just because it was more convenient. He used cheap, easily replaceable records IIRC so if the changer was hard on them there would be a smaller loss.
 
I have to say that I've not been bothered personally with changing records. Manually actually works well for me in that I can change to whatever is the whim of the moment, rather than being locked on decision I made, say, 3 hours ago...

 

I actually prefer fully manual turntables, too. There are audiophile arguments that can be made--and have been made--such as "every dollar goes to performance". But the cold, hard practical issue for me is that if I return the arm manually, I have the arm lift up, and I know for certain it is up. If the turntable does it, the arm lift is down...and there is the risk that I won't be thinking, and casually drop the cartridge down onto the next record. (Even turntables that are fully automatic are not immune, since there are many times when I want to play a specific track, which means manually positioning the arm.)
 
Whirlpool Garrard link

Meanwhile, would anyone know if Allen moved his Garrard website link or just hung it up altogether? Thanks.

I have to say, even though I just got the '65 Fisher C.E.VIII, the Miracord is nice. I like the push button feature and it is so smooth.
 

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