Early Mechanical Dishwashing

[easyspindry]

Thanks, Robert. Very interesting.

That history of dishwashers was fascinating. The sink-dishwashers were very popular in the late '40's and into the '50's. Most of the ones I saw and used were GE and Hot Point. Great machines that lasted forever.

I have a round GE portable (non-automatic) that is fun to play with. Kind of hard to load bowls or pans in the corner when it's round, though.

Thanks again, Robert.

Jerry Gay

 

[tomturbomatic]

Those GE dishwashers that went into new houses were made available to builders for $10.00 with the purchase of the built-in cooktop and oven. It added a great deal to the appeal of the house and created a market for replacement machines. I remember the difference between kitchens with just an oven and cooktop and ones with a dishwasher. The kitchens with a dishwasher looked complete, like the pictures of modern kitchens in magazines and those without one looked cheap and low end.

Has anyone been to the Ford Museum in Dearborn and seen the old wooden trough-shaped dishwasher with the chicken wire racks? It is OLD. Sorta looks like the dishwasher that came to be when the Lord decided to add dishwashers to creation. You look at that machine and you can tell that somebody was desperate as hell to have a dishwasher.

 

[nasadowsk]

The kitchens with a dishwasher looked complete, like the pictures of modern kitchens in magazines and those without one looked cheap and low end.

I bet that was intentional - to 'upsell' the home buyers.

Japanese consumer electronics take this to the extreme - they only have one or two circuit boards across a lineup, and the differences are literally that they add or don't add the parts for a feature... So, they use the same board for a few models and the same assembly line, with just different robot programming and final assembly...

What's weird is - TRY getting a manufacturing operation in the US to do this, most won't. I tried at my last job to get the boss to go this way and he couldn't understand it. On the whole, it's easier to design the top of the line and then remove features from the board...

 

[toploader55]

Great Thread...Josephine Cocharane

I've been in the restaurant biz for 39 years. Followed it all. The best machine ever was the XM Model series. Built like tanks, Best spray patterns ever, One pass, and the racks came out spotless. Single Tank mind you. They had the Hobart Cresent "Dual Drive" to convey the racks through the spray pattern, but also had a dwell bar. The Dwell bar would let a rack sit in the spray pattern until the next rack was pushed in. If you wanted the rack to continue, there was a lever in the front of the machine that you pushed down which released the "pawls" of the conveyor system until it caught on the last of the "pawls" . Which were made of "Ni Resist" (Cast Iron". Stationary lower wash arm, And a 3-arm revolving upper wash arm. The rinse arms have remained the same after 40 some odd years.Always offering the lowest Rinse consumption. Every commercial Dish Machine has always followed Hobart. The XM series will truley remain an Icon in the Commercial Dish Machine series. (Right stevet ????????) By the way, The upper spray arms were of an external ball bearing mount. Early XMs had them exposed, so you could see if they were turning or not. Then later they were hidden by the Temperature Mounts.The C-series. The best feature of the XM series was they had a like a 3x5 port hole window on the inspection door which you could watch the spray pattern. Wicked cool and awsome machine.Truely with out a doubt "Tanks of steel".

 

[stevet]

Truth be told!

Yes Toploader,
Those XM's were incredible machines and what is interesting is that both Hoabrt and Blakeslee had the same ideas with their respective conveyor machines..They were basically able to "modularize" them by adding repetitve tanks to increase the length of the machiines and allow each tank to perform different functions.
Every manufacturer does the same thing with their product lines.
I am amazed at how many Hobart techs will come up and ask me what a specific model machine looks like.
I tell them over and over..the number in the model indicates the length of the machine( even the flight types).
Actually, Hobart and Stero(our sister company)still use the length in the model numbers.Blakeslee would line up the specific tanks or modules and that would become their Model numbers as well as the length. You can see that here:

http://www.blakesleeinc.com/rack.html

Blakeslee even uses the same conveyorized design and turns it into a flight type by adding the flight conveyor to it.

Hobart uses the basic product line and adds the prewash models to the overall model number:

CRS66A is a"C"onveyor type with
a 22 inch "RS" "R"ecirculating "S"crapper tank
and a 44 inch Wash tank
equalling a 66" total length
a CPW80A is a 36in Prewash added to a 44in wash tank = 80 inches
a C54A is the larger 54" wash tank
a C64a ia a two tank machine with a power wash, a power rinse tank with the usual freshwater final rinse at the very end 64 inches long. And we can go on from there ad infinitum

The Flight types were also designated in the same manner indicating their overall length and could be had in special lengths as specified by the customer. E.G. United airlines when they still were a real airline and had a real presence at JFK, had a FT331 IIRC and it was a standard machine but had a 13 foot unloading end on it. A In the old days, machines would come with load ends as short as 3 feet too so any conmbination was possible.

Stero model numbers are similar: SCT44 is a Stero Conveyor Type 44 inches long and you can see the progression.

But I definintely diverged here..

Hobart built all their own motors way back when and the XM motor was the model upon which most of their motors were based. If you have ever seen the really old Mixers with the motors mounted on top and the big flywheels in the back, they were using a modified XM style motor. It was just sized up or down as needed. They eventually redesigned the pump motors on the C-Lines and FT's and there are still thousands of those machines running everyday. And while they are few and far bewteen here in Florida, there are still many, many of them cranking away in places like NYC. I have seen machines myself like Toploader that my fellow techs wouldn't even recognize.They don't even teach them about the UM,WM SM and other ancient machines like the original AM's anymore in School. We do have thatCopper Show machine in the Sales center except when it gets rolled out to shows. Champion has a copper built machine in their Headquarters as well.

Everyone back in the day kind of had the same designs for what the machine had to do. Like how many different concepts can any group of engineers come up with and not have it look and work like someone else's machine?

Man that was a long commentary.. Sounds like a phone conversation Ed and I had a few months back!

 

[maytagbear]

What about the Jackson?

I know of two churches here in the region who have Jackson brand dish machines. Cool looking things, but they are round, and don't seem very efficient with space.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[toploader55]

Jacksons

Like all commercial machines, Jackson seemed to have it's "HayDay", when they produced the round machine. Jackson for some reason seemed very popular in Chinese Restaurants years ago. They were made well and were less money than Hobart. One thing,they had a little tiny mesh screen in the sump that used to clog with food fiber after about 18-20 racks passed through thus effecting the pump pressure. They would clog so much that you could open the hood or door while they were running, and watch the water trickle out of the spray jets. A pain in the butt to clean, I use to take a pair of tongs and hold the filter over a gas burner on the range and burn the filter clean.

 

[tomturbomatic]

My father worked with industrial and manufacturing chemists. He spent a lot of time educating people about various facets of sanitation. I remember how much he detested Jackson dishwashers because of the difficulties faced when installing automatic feeders on the machines since they had so little stationary surface to them. I inherited the special bits and threading tools he used on the heavy gauge stainless steel when he taught installation of the equipment that went from hydraulic dispensing in the 50s to electric and then electronic monitoring of the strength of the wash solution and detergent dispensing.

I remember old machines that used a rocking mechanism with arms fore and aft for the reciprocating mechanism that move the trays with wooden dowel dividers through the tanks. Early on the machines had those canvas curtains at each end that were later not allowed for sanitary reasons. I looked at those as a child and thought they were nasty. Hobart's motto was that in Hobart machines, either the dishes moved or the water pattern moved or both. I remember looking inside a one tank Colt-Autosan and seeing stationary wash tubes. I wondered how it washed with an unchanging water pattern and my father's answer was, "not as well as a Hobart." Actually, I think he also said it was not much of a machine in many aspects.

 

[cvillewasherbo]

Waffle House

Anyone know what Waffle House's use? I can never see them, but I hear them. I asked to see one once and I was told that no customers were allowed behind the counter. The machines are so low down that you can't see them by looking over the counter. I was also told that they were basically "sterilizing" machines. Anyone know?

Courtney in Waynesboro VA

 

[tomturbomatic]

If the dishwasher is still behind the counter, it is one of the two Hobart "turtle back" models, so named for their hump shape with overlapping doors forming each half of the hump. One side is raised and the rack of soiled dishes is pushed in. Then the side is lowered and the handle on the front is locked to start the cycle. When the cycle is complete, the lock releases and the other side is raised and the rack of clean dishes is pulled out and lots of steam billows up. The operator stands turned away to prevent steam burns, leans down and sort of reaches behind him or herself to grab the rack. I believe the automatic cycle in the smaller machine was 65 seconds with 12 seconds of 180 degree rinse water from the booster delivered through a small diameter rinse arm under the rack and a tube at the apex of the hump with fixed nozzles. The rinse time could be extended, but each extra second of rinsing subtracted from wash time. Since the rinse water falls into the wash tank diluting the detergent solution and the displaced water leaves through an overflow drain, the minimum time of 12 seconds of 180F rinsing to sanitize the dishes as mandated by health standards is not usually increased. The short wash is made possible by the 50 gallon per minute pump in the smaller maachine and a larger capacity pump in the bigger machine delivering water through the 6 jets in the Hobart wash arm, plus the dishes are not only freshly soiled, but pre-rinsed with water from the hanging sprayer and stubborn spots are given a little scrubbing by hand.

 

[petek]

Thanks for all those pictures it's very interesting. The earliest dishwasher I recollect seeing was at the Henry Ford in Detroit. It was oak barrel like, on the horizontal and inside were wood racks, possibly metal I can't remember, that swished to and fro somehow. Has been a few years now

 

[toploader55]

Wow Colt Auto San

Holy S--T,
Does that bring back memories. I had totally forgot about them. When did they go out of business ? I remember seeing a few of those as a child.
But Tom...You are absolutely right. Hobart did say and there are no more true words..."Either the dishes have to move or the water has to move". My Dad's restaurant had a Insinger "Ensign". A 16x16 rack, stationary spray tubes and was a roll top model similar to the Hobart LM and SM models. The Hobart Rolltops had a revolving lower wash arm where as the Insinger had stationary spray tubes. The results : Horrible on the Insinger that is. I used to love to go to the used restaurant equipment warehouses and see all those Mammoth Hunks of Stainless Steel waiting for either a new home or just waiting there destiny. Blakeslee wan't too bad of a machine. Their "Sani Stream Spray Boxes" were some what of a disappointment though.
I do believe that Insinger now has an exclusive with the U.S. Navy and builds all their machines for ships and aircraft carriers. I was at their Web Page last year. I'm still not too impressed with the design. One of our service techs for the restaurant highly recommended them though.
What are your thoughts on Insinger and Colt Autosan stevet ????????

 

[bestcleaning]

Oh My. Dishwasher 1911? Very cool. Thank you for posting this.

 

[stevet]

A COLT by any other name would be a ....

Vulcan-Hart!
Yes beleive it or not, Vulcan took over that line many years ago and they continued building dishwashers until the very early 90's. They were very heavy duty machines as were their Mixers..Yes planetary mixers like Hobarts and Blakeslees and Univex's!

Vulcan used to have a very full line of Food equipt but after Hobart bought them out in 1981 or so, they saw no need to have a competing line. When I began working for Acme American in Brooklyn in 1989, they were already beginning to phase them out and then they just stopped providing parts for them. Only if the parts were used on another line would they still be available. The dishwashers had stationary washarms which even Hobart had gone to. Gone were those revolving arms with the cool bearing housings on top. I have actually worked on a few down here in Daytona and in Deland. The one in Deland is gone now but the one in DAB is still cranking along.
As far as Insinger is concerned, their bread and butter is definitely the US Navy and the joke in the industry was that anytime a ship went to sea, it ordered up a load of spares for their machines and when they returned to port, they tossed them overboard. Really keeps Insinger in the Parts business.

What you have to realize is that while there are many great ,machines out there, the basic idea is the same and most manufacturers all did it pretty much the same and continue to build the same basic machines as they have been building. No reason to change a successful platform. You will see this more and more from the niche players but when it comes to Hoabrt and Champion and now some of the european mfr's they will constantly change their designs and take advantage of technology and materials.
Ed, wait till you see the NEW Hobart C-Line machines..would you beleive no more up and down doors? How does two swing open cabinet style doors per section grab you?

 

[stevet]

Waffle House???

Yes WH used to use the good old SM machines in their restaurants and I am sure there are still many in use as we speak. Hobart ceased productioon of them way back and when Waffle house needed new ones, they wound up going to Champion to have them build one for them.
Of course it looked nearly identical and they both used a 16x16 inch dishrack which allowed for the in counter mounting in a standard 24 " deep counter.
IIRC, the model designation was RM-16 for rolltop machine.

The LM was a full sized version using the 20x 20 racks.So they would not have used it in their restaurants.
Guess I will have to stop in now and see what they are using in and around my area.

 

[duetboy]

I'm sure you've all seen this on you tube

but I thought I'd post it here, too! It's a Hobart dishwasher at a show. They've put in a clear plastic panel to show it's wash action. Watch out tupperware!

Jeff

 

[toploader55]

Meiko at Work

I'll post a few pics of the commercial machine at my job. It's a Meiko. Sort of new around here. Made in Germany, not too reliable(considering it comes from the land of BMW and Daimler Benz). Note the I, II, III pads. I is Short Wash,II is Normal Wash, and III is "Intensive Wash". I is about 60 seconds. II is about 120 seconds, and III is roughly 4 minute wash. All cycles depend if the final rinse booster and tank are at specified Temperatures.

 

[toploader55]

Second Shot

Is the lower spray arm. it's a fairly well thought out Spray Pattern. The machine cleans very well. (As long as there is not an issue with the circuit boards), Ohhhhhh, I long for the old days with the cam timers.

 

[toploader55]

Up Shot

This is the top Wash arm. Same spray as the Lower one, They are interchangeable. The smaller arm with the pin holes are the Fresh Water Rinse Arms.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Seems like having the wash chamber raise like that lets a lot more heat escape than just having doors on two sides, but what do I know?