Ebay Strike?
- Thread starter launderess
- Start date
Help Support :
brettsomers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,993
bump
whirlcool
Well-known member
Looks kind of like a Mexican standoff. Sellers don't want to take it anymore with the new fee structures and Ebay is unwilling to budge on their policies.
And Amazon.com has a special page for "Ebay Refugees" and a quick start for selling on Amazon.
And Amazon.com has a special page for "Ebay Refugees" and a quick start for selling on Amazon.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
Did you catch what "Carol" said in one of the replies? "eBay's statement that the Buyers are eBay's customers, not mine..."
eBay has always said it was only a tool to bring buyers and sellers together. This protected them from liability. Have they changed their thoughts on this? I've posted a reply to that message board asking if anyone knows the source of the quote. It'll be interesting to see if it's true!
Chuck
eBay has always said it was only a tool to bring buyers and sellers together. This protected them from liability. Have they changed their thoughts on this? I've posted a reply to that message board asking if anyone knows the source of the quote. It'll be interesting to see if it's true!
Chuck
danemodsandy
Well-known member
I Think...
...eBay has really done it this time. They have offended just about everyone they can offend with the new fee structure, the new feedback system changes, and their new PayPal rules.
Ain't nobody big enough to be safe from going under. Ask Sears' catalogue division, A & P, Woolworth's, and all three of our domestic automakers. All of these were once considered unassailable businesses. All are gone or in very serious trouble today, due to mistreatment of consumers.
...eBay has really done it this time. They have offended just about everyone they can offend with the new fee structure, the new feedback system changes, and their new PayPal rules.
Ain't nobody big enough to be safe from going under. Ask Sears' catalogue division, A & P, Woolworth's, and all three of our domestic automakers. All of these were once considered unassailable businesses. All are gone or in very serious trouble today, due to mistreatment of consumers.
Yes, But..
In eBay's case it is not always exactly clear who is their customer. Is it the sellers who list items or the purchasers of those items?
If no one buys anything, or enough shoppers feel let down by the experience, and eBay's attempts to remedy any complaints, then shoppers will move elsewhere.
For a long time now eBay has been a joke if one was a buyer. Despite all sorts of violations of eBays TOL, many sellers still shill their goods with impunity from eBay. Paypal is a joke when problems arise, and so on.
eBay has gone from being a market place that brings buyers and sellers together, sort of like a fleamarket space to a major business where sellers off load inventory by the trailer load. Just look at all the brand new appliances being sold not by priviate owners, but big appliance dealers. No wonder local appliance stores, and even Sears are loosing sales.
Sellers range from the most professional to down right crooks. How many of us have purchased an item only to have it arrive in some cheap old box out of the garbarge, with no packing or padding, and fully half of whatever shipping charges seller charged on the package. Item of course arrived damaged, and when you call the seller out on it, you get nada. Ebay is of no help either, well not until they started making changes.
Mind you there still are deals to be found on eBay, one just has to have a good eye, then pick and choose. It also helps to vet a seller as much as one can and make clear what you expect.
Had a seller just last month tell me she ships when PayPal credits her account, not when one has paid with Paypal. So if Paypal takes three weeks to credit her account, that is when she ships. This is a total violation of eBay's and Paypals TOS, and told the seller so. It leaves her wide open for chargebacks, since Paypal requires sellers show proof an item was shipped within 14 days (maybe less)of a PayPal payment.
In eBay's case it is not always exactly clear who is their customer. Is it the sellers who list items or the purchasers of those items?
If no one buys anything, or enough shoppers feel let down by the experience, and eBay's attempts to remedy any complaints, then shoppers will move elsewhere.
For a long time now eBay has been a joke if one was a buyer. Despite all sorts of violations of eBays TOL, many sellers still shill their goods with impunity from eBay. Paypal is a joke when problems arise, and so on.
eBay has gone from being a market place that brings buyers and sellers together, sort of like a fleamarket space to a major business where sellers off load inventory by the trailer load. Just look at all the brand new appliances being sold not by priviate owners, but big appliance dealers. No wonder local appliance stores, and even Sears are loosing sales.
Sellers range from the most professional to down right crooks. How many of us have purchased an item only to have it arrive in some cheap old box out of the garbarge, with no packing or padding, and fully half of whatever shipping charges seller charged on the package. Item of course arrived damaged, and when you call the seller out on it, you get nada. Ebay is of no help either, well not until they started making changes.
Mind you there still are deals to be found on eBay, one just has to have a good eye, then pick and choose. It also helps to vet a seller as much as one can and make clear what you expect.
Had a seller just last month tell me she ships when PayPal credits her account, not when one has paid with Paypal. So if Paypal takes three weeks to credit her account, that is when she ships. This is a total violation of eBay's and Paypals TOS, and told the seller so. It leaves her wide open for chargebacks, since Paypal requires sellers show proof an item was shipped within 14 days (maybe less)of a PayPal payment.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
In eBay's case it is not always exactly clear who is the
customer: noun: One that buys goods or services. (American Heritage Dictionary)
eBay buyers buy nothing from eBay, goods nor services. Sellers, however, buy services from eBay. By definition, sellers are customers of eBay and buyers are not! Buyers buy from sellers, so they are the sellers' customers, not eBays!
As far as I'm concerned, it's just the feedback thing that really gets my goat.
Yes, the final value fees are going up (and not nearly offset by the lower listing fees), but it'll still be a "reasonable" percentage considering you have a world-wide audience and don't have to pay for a booth at an antique show where maybe a thousand people will see your widget.
Yes, PayPal will hold funds for 21 days. BUT, that will only be for transactions with a high risk of fraud, such as rare coins, Gucci handbags, plasma TVs, et cetera, and for transactions where the seller is not an established seller. If you have been a seller for more than 6 months, have a total feedback of more than 100 points with 95% positive, funds will not be held. Or, if you have an average Detailed Seller Rating greater than 4.5, and have received more than 20 Detailed Seller Ratings in the last 12 months, funds will not be held. So, with our feedback of 2109, with 99.4% positive, and a DSR of 4.9, we would not have funds held on any of our auctions.
But, not being able to leave neutral or negative feedback for a buyer who doesn't pay for 2 weeks, or who says it's not quite what he thought it was and wants a refund, even though you showed 6 clear pictures and stated "no refunds" and "sold as seen, please email with any questions before bidding," (then gives you negative for not giving him a refund) is a lot of B.S.
Chuck
customer: noun: One that buys goods or services. (American Heritage Dictionary)
eBay buyers buy nothing from eBay, goods nor services. Sellers, however, buy services from eBay. By definition, sellers are customers of eBay and buyers are not! Buyers buy from sellers, so they are the sellers' customers, not eBays!
As far as I'm concerned, it's just the feedback thing that really gets my goat.
Yes, the final value fees are going up (and not nearly offset by the lower listing fees), but it'll still be a "reasonable" percentage considering you have a world-wide audience and don't have to pay for a booth at an antique show where maybe a thousand people will see your widget.
Yes, PayPal will hold funds for 21 days. BUT, that will only be for transactions with a high risk of fraud, such as rare coins, Gucci handbags, plasma TVs, et cetera, and for transactions where the seller is not an established seller. If you have been a seller for more than 6 months, have a total feedback of more than 100 points with 95% positive, funds will not be held. Or, if you have an average Detailed Seller Rating greater than 4.5, and have received more than 20 Detailed Seller Ratings in the last 12 months, funds will not be held. So, with our feedback of 2109, with 99.4% positive, and a DSR of 4.9, we would not have funds held on any of our auctions.
But, not being able to leave neutral or negative feedback for a buyer who doesn't pay for 2 weeks, or who says it's not quite what he thought it was and wants a refund, even though you showed 6 clear pictures and stated "no refunds" and "sold as seen, please email with any questions before bidding," (then gives you negative for not giving him a refund) is a lot of B.S.
Chuck
danemodsandy
Well-known member
Yes, But...
"...Had a seller just last month tell me she ships when PayPal credits her account, not when one has paid with Paypal. So if Paypal takes three weeks to credit her account, that is when she ships. This is a total violation of eBay's and Paypals TOS, and told the seller so. It leaves her wide open for chargebacks, since Paypal requires sellers show proof an item was shipped within 14 days (maybe less)of a PayPal payment."
You really can't blame small sellers for not wanting to finance eBay. As has been pointed out, this system puts sellers in the position of fronting eBay for both merchandise cost and shipping charges. Amazon does the same thing; in fact, I just fired Amazon for doing this to me without warning on an expensive book I sold through their Marketplace service, my first (and last!) sale with them. They did not disclose to me that there would be a minimum two-week waiting period for funds to be credited to my account (quite without my prior consent, or interest paid), their cut on the transaction was quite high, and they oh-so-generously allowed me a "shipping credit" of $3.99- on a three-volume set they knew good and damn well weighed thirty pounds. I learned of these rules only when I'd shipped, and applied to be paid. I will never repeat never purchase anything from Amazon again, let alone sell through them. I cannot afford to tie up hundreds of dollars in merchandise and shipping fees until they finally get around to paying me.
These online venues need to have a bad quarter or two (or more) until they see the light. Without customers, the biggest, fanciest business is nothing. I promise you, people who own brick-and-mortar stores would looooooooove to be able to get their suppliers to bear all their front-end costs, and wait to be paid until the store owner decided to do so.
"...Had a seller just last month tell me she ships when PayPal credits her account, not when one has paid with Paypal. So if Paypal takes three weeks to credit her account, that is when she ships. This is a total violation of eBay's and Paypals TOS, and told the seller so. It leaves her wide open for chargebacks, since Paypal requires sellers show proof an item was shipped within 14 days (maybe less)of a PayPal payment."
You really can't blame small sellers for not wanting to finance eBay. As has been pointed out, this system puts sellers in the position of fronting eBay for both merchandise cost and shipping charges. Amazon does the same thing; in fact, I just fired Amazon for doing this to me without warning on an expensive book I sold through their Marketplace service, my first (and last!) sale with them. They did not disclose to me that there would be a minimum two-week waiting period for funds to be credited to my account (quite without my prior consent, or interest paid), their cut on the transaction was quite high, and they oh-so-generously allowed me a "shipping credit" of $3.99- on a three-volume set they knew good and damn well weighed thirty pounds. I learned of these rules only when I'd shipped, and applied to be paid. I will never repeat never purchase anything from Amazon again, let alone sell through them. I cannot afford to tie up hundreds of dollars in merchandise and shipping fees until they finally get around to paying me.
These online venues need to have a bad quarter or two (or more) until they see the light. Without customers, the biggest, fanciest business is nothing. I promise you, people who own brick-and-mortar stores would looooooooove to be able to get their suppliers to bear all their front-end costs, and wait to be paid until the store owner decided to do so.
Buyer who doesn't pay for 2 weeks
It is important to remember eBay's TOS did and may even still give buyers 30 days to pay. This thing with payment due at once and or within one or two weeks is of recent vintage. Again, even where pPayment is demanded at once, and or with Paypal, there are sellers who still take their sweet time in shipping.
It is important to remember eBay's TOS did and may even still give buyers 30 days to pay. This thing with payment due at once and or within one or two weeks is of recent vintage. Again, even where pPayment is demanded at once, and or with Paypal, there are sellers who still take their sweet time in shipping.
maggie~hamilton
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2006
- Messages
- 711
eBay's excuse in the past when shying away with helping you out with bad apples was "eBay is only a forum." e.g., we are here only to facilitate transactions and are not actually a part of the transaction. Looks like they're changing their stance. I also take great personal offense at their striving to rid eBay of its "flea market" aesthetic. As others have pointed out, it WAS that every "flea market aesthetic" that made eBay so appealing in the first place! Especially for collectors. Now, eBay is mostly used by power sellers unloading cheap crap from Taiwan, Mexico et al --- a lot of crap, crap, crap. How many of you have heard the commercials on the radio, "Become rich on eBay selling merchandise you don't have to see, ship, or store." Well, guess whre all that "inventory" comes from.
I agree that eBay will never be the same as it used to be, and that those who still seek the "flea market aesthetic" will need to look further. Here's a list of other auction sites I've found. Of them, it appears ecrater.com is poised to become eBay's biggest competitor.
www.ecrater
www.ebid.net
www.onlineauction.com/
www.NeoLoch.com
WARNING: NEEDS PAYPAL
www.Tias.com
www.OLA
www.iOffer
www.bluJay
www.bidville.com
and for "mature" audiences there is
www.naughtybids.com
Also, there is now a good alternative to PayPal, www.google.com/accounts, which transfers transactions immediately instead of putting them in limbo for weeks at a time as PayPal does, and their rates are much more reasonable than PayPal's.
I agree that eBay will never be the same as it used to be, and that those who still seek the "flea market aesthetic" will need to look further. Here's a list of other auction sites I've found. Of them, it appears ecrater.com is poised to become eBay's biggest competitor.
www.ecrater
www.ebid.net
www.onlineauction.com/
www.NeoLoch.com
WARNING: NEEDS PAYPAL
www.Tias.com
www.OLA
www.iOffer
www.bluJay
www.bidville.com
and for "mature" audiences there is
www.naughtybids.com
Also, there is now a good alternative to PayPal, www.google.com/accounts, which transfers transactions immediately instead of putting them in limbo for weeks at a time as PayPal does, and their rates are much more reasonable than PayPal's.
maggie~hamilton
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2006
- Messages
- 711
POSTED IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF THE VARIOUS NEWS STORIES:
1- Mr Donahoe [eBay big mucky-muck] stated he wants to rid the site of the embarassing sellers of "flea market" items- otherwise known to buyers as unique vintage items and what a great many of us searched ebay for- in favor of large powersellers who drop ship their items (JUNK) from China.
2- If I wished to continue to sell my items on ebay, I would be required to pay a 66% increase in fees.
3- If I did sell an item I would be required to use paypal, ebay's own bank, to receive the money from the sale and pay them a fee as well.
4- Paypal will also now be holding for 21 days with no intrest, the money paid to the small seller, while ebay still requires that I ship the item as soon as paypal receives the funds, meaning that I have to ship an item using MY money to cover shipping! And if the buyer ends up deciding they want my item for free, and initiates a charge back with paypal, I can bet they get their money back, leaving me out the following- Money lost on listing fee paid to ebay, money lost to ebay on Final valuation fee when the item was "sold" errr "Stolen", Money I had to pay to ship the item, MY item which I will never get back, Fees to paypal for money I NEVER received AND........
5 To add insult to injury, I will only be allowed to leave this wonderful buyer POSITIVE feedback, while I receive Negative feedback for being robbed!
6- BUT.....it does not end there. Additionally, for the pleasure of paying 66% more in fees to list my item, ebay has created a new DEFAULT search matrix, called "Best Match" which will give the powersellers selling the same items as me TOP placement in the search results, meaning my item, because I am a small seller, will never be seen, therefore never purchased
WOW! What a deal ebay is! No wonder buyers and sellers alike are leaving in droves!
1- Mr Donahoe [eBay big mucky-muck] stated he wants to rid the site of the embarassing sellers of "flea market" items- otherwise known to buyers as unique vintage items and what a great many of us searched ebay for- in favor of large powersellers who drop ship their items (JUNK) from China.
2- If I wished to continue to sell my items on ebay, I would be required to pay a 66% increase in fees.
3- If I did sell an item I would be required to use paypal, ebay's own bank, to receive the money from the sale and pay them a fee as well.
4- Paypal will also now be holding for 21 days with no intrest, the money paid to the small seller, while ebay still requires that I ship the item as soon as paypal receives the funds, meaning that I have to ship an item using MY money to cover shipping! And if the buyer ends up deciding they want my item for free, and initiates a charge back with paypal, I can bet they get their money back, leaving me out the following- Money lost on listing fee paid to ebay, money lost to ebay on Final valuation fee when the item was "sold" errr "Stolen", Money I had to pay to ship the item, MY item which I will never get back, Fees to paypal for money I NEVER received AND........
5 To add insult to injury, I will only be allowed to leave this wonderful buyer POSITIVE feedback, while I receive Negative feedback for being robbed!
6- BUT.....it does not end there. Additionally, for the pleasure of paying 66% more in fees to list my item, ebay has created a new DEFAULT search matrix, called "Best Match" which will give the powersellers selling the same items as me TOP placement in the search results, meaning my item, because I am a small seller, will never be seen, therefore never purchased
WOW! What a deal ebay is! No wonder buyers and sellers alike are leaving in droves!
Used to be a seller on eBay called "Barginland", which really was a front for some sort of inventory clearance. Despite having some pretty good merchandise and or deals, one was never sure what one won at auction was what got at shipping. They would take weeks to ship items, and even then items were mainly thrown into a box, box sealed and shipped, no packing or anything. Had something like one thousand negs give or take, and would always hit anyone leaving a neg for them with a neg in response on trumped up charges. However Bargainland would always contact the original seller a few weeks later requesting a mutual withdraw of (negative) feedback.
Ebay finally gave them the push, but they still are around, running their own auction site. Am sure, and others agree, that Barginland is part of eBay, but no one can prove it so far.
L.
Ebay finally gave them the push, but they still are around, running their own auction site. Am sure, and others agree, that Barginland is part of eBay, but no one can prove it so far.
L.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
Funny
I don't know anywhere where it says a buyer has 30 days to pay. They do specify to buyers that a seller can make a non-payment report after 7, however.
Also, as far as eBay's customers being the buyers, here's the quote from the actual user agreement:
"We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. We have no control over and do not guarantee the quality, safety or legality of items advertised, the truth or accuracy of listings, the ability of sellers to sell items, the ability of buyers to pay for items, or that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction."
Therefore, neither buyer nor seller is a customer of eBay. WRONG! I pay eBay fees for selling, so I am their customer and they are a vendor!! They sell me the space to list my goods!! The buyer, on the other hand, has no financial relationship with them.
Additionally, under the "Using eBay" heading in the user agreement, most of the bullet points pertain to sellers exclusively. So, they're setting rules for their customers!
Chuck
I don't know anywhere where it says a buyer has 30 days to pay. They do specify to buyers that a seller can make a non-payment report after 7, however.
Also, as far as eBay's customers being the buyers, here's the quote from the actual user agreement:
"We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. We have no control over and do not guarantee the quality, safety or legality of items advertised, the truth or accuracy of listings, the ability of sellers to sell items, the ability of buyers to pay for items, or that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction."
Therefore, neither buyer nor seller is a customer of eBay. WRONG! I pay eBay fees for selling, so I am their customer and they are a vendor!! They sell me the space to list my goods!! The buyer, on the other hand, has no financial relationship with them.
Additionally, under the "Using eBay" heading in the user agreement, most of the bullet points pertain to sellers exclusively. So, they're setting rules for their customers!
Chuck
Similar threads
