electric and hybrid cars...

[cfz2882]

though internal combustion engine the most practical way to propel a car for hundreds of miles before replenishing the energy source,does seem archaic that so much of the energy in the gas you bought just goes to waste heat blown out the exhaust and dissipated by the radiator not to mention the need for warmups and idling-Once,~1998,was going to convert a broken down gas car to electric for short commutes:found a 1980 Fiat strada in a junkyard I was going to convert as car was 2 door and I thought it had the right "look"for electric propulsion had no motor on hand for the project,but thought I could come up with one pretty easy-junkyard got hit by a hailstorm and the Fiat was damaged beyond practical repair-that was the end of that idea...A few years later,a guy brought me an antique 1908 Columbia electric car that I had to figure out the wiring for,rewire and get working-luckily He provided me with a 1910 book on electric cars,so I at least had an idea of how electric cars were wired back then-had a big drum switch with 5 forward speeds and 3 reverse;different speeds acheved with a big cast-iron resistor grid under the floor and switching different windings in the motor field-a resistor shunted across the motor fields for top speed(~25 mph,direct tiller steering-a little hairy at that speed LOL 6hp GE motor,herringbone gear primary reduction,chain drive to rear wheels.Original batteries were glass cell,but owner used a bunch of LA golf cart batteries to provide (IIRC)76 volts. I had a fun time test driving that car up to about 12-15 mph,let owner "open it up"to top speed
Too bad GM took back all the EV electric cars they had built ~1996-99 and scrapped most-some people really liked those cars and they sounded kinda like a maytag Neptune winding up as they accelerated.

 

[washer111]

"Warming up" cars is thankfully a thing of the past, even in cold conditions.

An engine produces little heat when idling, so all you're doing is filling the oil with the rich fuel mixture being pumped in.

Most manufacturers, while not recommending warmup a suggest gentle driving till the engine warms up (i.e. not over 2.5K rpm).

 

[dustin92]

With all the driving I do, I'd gladly drive a hybrid. In the summer I easily put 500 miles a week on my vehicle. Maybe I'll look into one for my next vehicle... I'm currently driving a 2005 Dodge Caravan but it's terrible on gas, only 21-22 mpg on the highway unless I'm really careful.. Then I've had it up to 23. I like the extra space to haul stuff (or people) though. I got spoiled with my last car that got 32mpg easily (2003 Chevy Impala), and I'd probably still be driving that, but the transmission was getting really tired (194,000 miles when I sold it). With gas prices as low as they are though, I have a feeling the hybrid/electric cars are going to drop off in sales, since people can afford to drive a traditional vehicle. At $5 a gallon for gas I'd want something really great on gas too, at $2, not as big of a deal.

 

[tolivac]

Presently I have a gas 6 cyl version Toyota Highlasnder-do like the Hybrid better-but the prices on those have gone up drastically-almost 10K over the straight gas one.You could buy a lot of gas for that 10K more!Two Toyota salesmen comment the sales of Hylander Hybrids have dropped.The Prius,and Camery Hybrids do well,though.

 

[delaneymeegan]

I love my Prius C. I get anywhere from 45 to 70 MPG, which seems meager compared to Prius Plug-ins that can easily get over 100 MPG.
If you have your own solar array, you can refuel your car directly.... FOR FREE.

I'm leasing for $299. There are some months where I only go to the gas station once, and put in like $20.

Fossil fuel powered engines are like 100 years old. Its basically the same engine put but put in new plastic cars, instead of a model T.
If we were still watching black and white TVs, or using computers from the mid 90s, people would be bitching and complaining.

http://https//youtu.be/atoqo2QlFlY

 

[warmsecondrinse]

This is an on-going problem that seems to get little attention except from potential end-users like us:

"Going green", "reducing your carbon footprint", and whatever else it's called these days usually requires a major increase of initial investment compared with the conventional choice. Any available financial incentives to offset this increase are usually presented in such a way that determining the break even point, expected savings over expected life of product, etc is difficult and/or requires a significant invest of time & energy in and of itself. Is it really a surprise many people say, "No, thank you."?

I could be wrong (members in other countries please correct me) but my impression is that in most other countries incentives are much more clear-cut, up-front, and easier to calculate. In some places electric vehicles get all sorts of fees waived, EV-only parking spaces with free recharging facilities, etc. In other places diesel and alcohol fuels are 25-30% cheaper than gasoline.

Not so in the U.S. For example, a SmartForTwo EV would satisfy 90% of my driving needs. Yet purchasing one would require me to rent a car for the other 10% and my costs for registration, insurance, parking, tolls, would remain the same AND I'd have to worry about finding recharging facilities everywhere I went.

If the 'goobermint' REALLY wanted me to drive 90% of my miles in a Smart EV something like the following would be in place for me to entice me to purchase one:
-Zero tax, license, insurance, etc. fees.
-free parking in any garage and free recharging as well.
-free parking at all meters.
-exemption from all car pool lane restrictions.

Further, since I'd hardly be using my GAS powered car should I elect to keep it, ITS costs should be reduced proportionally to how much I drive my EV, instead.

To me this is seems pretty simple, but clearly I'm mistaken, lol.

Jim

 

[delaneymeegan]

Well, I hear you Jim. It's like any new technology and adapting it to societies needs.
Remember back 25 to 30 years ago and those clunky, boxy, computer thingees? Dear lord, what ever happened to that silly, fly-by night thing? (snort, snort)

It depends on what state you live in. In some states, the essentials you've mentioned are available. The knuckle dragger (republican lead) states, most likely have the governors and un-special interests invested in oil and oil services stocks, and have actively done what ever they can to keep evolution from happening.

California and Vermont, for example, are blossoming with solar arrays everywhere. It's such a hopeful sign. I come back to the Midwest and visit my parents in Wisconsin, and have yet to see ANY solar arrays. It's pathetic and disturbing.

 

[nurdlinger]

Last February I bought a hybrid car

A couple-year-old Ford C-Max. Mostly my driving consists of 40 miles each weekday back and forth to work, and the hybrid does that for about half the quantity of gasoline as did the vehicle it replaced: 2005 Honda Odyssey minivan. The Honda was big and comfortable, and since I am a big person who appreciates comfort, it was enjoyable to drive. But it was nearly 10 years old and I wanted a newer vehicle in which to face impending retirement. I had been apprehensive about a smaller car and bought the C-Max with the intention of using it for commuting and keeping the Honda for longer trips. I soon got tired of the adjustment required going back and forth from one to the other. Also, a number of folks saw the newer car and asked me if the Honda was for sale. I did sell it to a coworker. The C-Max is zippy enough for a commuter car, and last month I finally did take a longer trip in it. (2000 miles to San Francisco and back) I was pleased with its performance on the trip as well. Long freeway stretches at high speeds are not a hybrid's best miliue. Mileage was about 35-36mpg overall. But it had adequate power for passing and climbing hills so the worry I had had about getting trapped behind trucks and being unable to pass them turned out to be unfounded. So far I am entirely satisfied with my hybrid car. Buying a used one permitted avoidance of the price differential others have mentioned. The one I have has nearly every option possible to get on a 2013 C-Max. (it omits automatic parking, but has just about everything else) I researched the dickens out of the Ford HF-35 hybrid powertrain and am impressed that it can do its work with no clutches, solenoids, or hydraulic pumps and actuators. (it is highly similar to the Toyota Hybrid Synergy system, they both had a common ancestor) I can let you know in a few years if I'm still as happy, or whether some expensive part(s) failed.

 

[DADoES]

 
Am enjoying my Fusion Hybrid.  The trip computer (accuracy taken for what is it) has reported (several times) high as 68 to 76 MPG runs through town, such as from work to post office to home.  Yesterday 45 MPG on a 22-mile highway trip (72 mph).  My fill up calculations have settled between 40 and 43.

I've become more conscious of moderate acceleration and braking (to maximize energy recovery) and use air conditioning and heating somewhat less.  In the wee-morn hours when there's no traffic I may go 35 or 40 mph through the 50/55/60 zones between work and home to maximize electric mode.

Paid $4000 less for it than my previous 2001 Infiniti that got 18 to 22 MPG.

It was a nice adjustment to fill up for $20+ instead of $50+, and every 5+ weeks instead of 2+ weeks.

 

[suburbanmd]

Not to mention...

the reduced brake wear because of regeneration. I have a Toyota Avalon Hybrid.

 

[washer111]

The only real issue I see with hybrids is where all the materials are sourced from. 

 

(This is an example - it may not necessarily be true, but demonstrates the point). 

Batteries made with metal from Canada

Plastics and doodads from Bamboo in China (This is true for the Prius)

Computers and whizz-bangery from Japan

All sent on a big ship somewhere for final assembly. 

 

How about making it all domestically? That would save a TON of greenhouse emmissions. But no - it must all happen off-shore, with final assembly done in the USA, Mexico or whatever. 

 

[askolover]

When I was looking for a new car back in 2001 for my 100 mile daily round trip commute I considered hybrids.  But, the technology at the time required the engine to run if the AC was on...and being in TN I had to have AC.  So diesel won.  50+mpg still ain't nothin to sneeze at.  Now with 220k+ miles on it I'm still driving it.  Now if they would come out with a diesel hybrid, that would be a real winner!

 

[lordkenmore]

Hybrids and electric cars are not priced at my level yet (which tends to be at the "buy old and well used!" price point). Past that, as strange as this might sound to some, I'd miss having a manual transmission. Real Men shift gears, and if it's good enough for a Real Man, it'll work for Lord Kenmore. LOL

Although...if I were buying new, and looking for a car that would get driven many, many, many miles per year, I might consider hybrid. Yes, gas prices are low...but they probably will go up again.