Electronic Controls, Bad Rap?

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Membrane Keyboards

@juan0069
"Sorry combo52, but nearly all modern computer keyboards are of the "membrane" design..."

That may be true but you will usually find Cherry keyboard mechanisms in most point of sale system where they keyboards are heavily used. Also, Data entry personnel usually seek out the Cherry keyboards or IBM buckling spring keyboards as they claim they can wear out a modern membrane keyboard in under six months.
 
Well..........

philcobendixduo makes an interesting point. Notice the years he posted for the age of his machines. Notice this was before it became the "thing" to cut costs to the bone. I think that alone explains why his equipment still works. Even though it could be argued electronics were not as advanced as what we have today, it seems apparent they were not built to a "price point" to the extent we see today.

This same logic applies to desktop PCs as well. When I started in IT, an IBM model 60 model 56 or model 70 was da bomb so to speak. I installed a great many of these as file servers on a Novell token ring network. Even some Type 1 baseband configurations as well.
Even the value point 425sx line of machines were pretty sturdy. These machines, being network servers, ran 24/7/365. Service calls were rare.

Then with the 300GL series, things started to go awry. The first defect was the PSU. We replaced those by the dozen. Sometimes 3-4 times a year.
Then we got the "stinkcenter" series 8187 8140 8160 and those were five star pieces of crap. Mobo replacement was so common, that our field guys carried them on hand constantly. I can see why IBM sold out to Lenovo.

I open a desktop PC today and see wiring that barely meets spec for current flow and resistance. I see mobos less than 1/4 the thickness of yesteryear mobos. I see the thinnest possible solder and PSU with barely enough output to run the processor. Start plugging in gobs of USB powered peripherals and good luck!

Dell is no better IMHO. I know some people swear by a Dell PC and that is fine, but they too have a rash of failures that makes me wonder. And these are supposed to be "business class" machines. Pardon me while I laugh.

As I see it there are two entities to blame here. First are the beancounters. When Wall Street started demanding that accountants be placed in charge of business decisions, ostensibly to ensure "shareholder value", product quality declined. Sure the price held steady or went down, but jeez, just look at the junk foisted on a gullible public. Lesson here, never put a beancounter in charge. Of anything!

Second, I blame the consumer. I know, I know, everybody and his cousin wants a good deal or the best price, but come on. How cheap does something have to be before a brave soul questions how it was made to be so cheap in the first place?
It is very common to witness someone bitching about the supposed high price of a given product or service, but have you ever noticed no one questions an absurdly cheap price? And despite all this, we STILL run to the nearest BIG BOX to scrounge for the cheapest thing we can get. In other words consumer demand for the cheapest results in well, a pile of cheap (but junk) products on the shelves. More and more each day, it is getting harder to find a quality anything, even for those who can and will pay more.

Which brings to mind VOIP. I signed on with Vonage back in 2003. Compared to what I used to pay Sprint for a landline, it was a godsend. Caller ID, 3 way calling, call forwarding, etc were all included for a flat price. I could call Europe for pennies as opposed to dollars with AT&T. I was and still am very satisfied. All for 29.95/month. I think it went up but I am still under 40 bucks a month and I can call all I want when I want wherever I want.
I used to help moderate some VOIP forums a long time ago. Well as you might imagine, VOIP was like a weed. Every week, there was a new startup company offering something a little cheaper then what was already out there. And the boards were chock full of "Voip hoppers" as we called them. They'd sign with Vonage, stick around, then some other company like Packet 8 or Brightwing would have something for 21.95 a month and they'd jump on that. Then company X would come along for 14.95 a month and you'd see a mass exodus to that company. And so on and so forth. It was crazy, it really was. It was almost like a drug addiction in a weird sort of way. I don't honestly know which, if any, of those early VOIP companies are still around but for a while, it was like an all you can eat buffet.

Which only goes to reinforce the fetish Americans seem to have in going after the cheapest of the cheap.

I'm certainly old enough to remember when appliances were considered "durable goods". And I am well aware there are other members here, older than me, that remember it also. Sad thing is, an entire generation of millennials or urban
hipsters are coming of age in this climate of throwaway products and they see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So yes, electronics, when done right, are a good thing. In of themselves they are no worse than a kitchen knife. The reality is, however, they are NOT being done right and thanks to a wealth of stores of problems with washing machines, are only getting a bad name.
 
Durable Goods

Appliances are still considered Durable Goods, and in fact many appliances are lasting and being kept longer than ever and they are diffidently not requiring as many repairs during their usable lifetimes.

Ben [don't take this personally ] the thing that makes appliances throw away appliances is when people throw away a 10-15 YO dryer that could be easily repaired because it squeaks, it gets very tiresome to hear your constant rants about lack of quality when the real problem is the appliance owners inability to get minor appliance problems addressed.

John L.
 
Well John L you have your opinion and I have mine

and before you pass judgement on me (again), realize that I solicited input from not one but TWO local appliance repair shops in my area before deciding to replace the dryer. You run a repair business am I correct? Do you charge for a service call to examine/repair an appliance that is wayyy out of warranty? Do you charge for each visit, say for example one to replace rollers and says 6 months later you replace the heater? Or do you only charge ONCE regardless of how many times you come out? Both repair shops told me that in their extensive experience with GE dryers, the usual set of repairs is rollers, followed by motor, followed by the heater assembly.
So yes, in theory I could have had it fixed but what happens when the next ______ fill in the blank breaks? What about the cost of yet another service call? What about part availability? And the cost of the part itself?

Sure, I made a judgement call, no doubt about that. I'm not in any regret over buying new. Nor am I unhappy with the GE dryer. It did what it was designed to do and probably lasted longer than GE expected it to! I got my money's worth from it (and the washer) and I have no regrets buying them in the first place. In fact, GE was the first brand I looked at when I decided I was going to replace the dryer. See my post on reasons why I did not buy GE.

For your statement to even have the slightest bit of merit and don't take this personally :) I would have to announce that I got rid of 2 perfectly working appliances because I wanted a different brand, color, or wash tub composition. Then you could take me to task, no ifs ands or buts.

I'm glad you are tiring of my rants about quality. That means you are at least reading my posts and I am flattered to no end. Now perhaps you can use your decades of experience in the business and your connections with Whirlpool, GE et al and advise them to start building better quality products.
 
Much As One Loves the Mechanical/Electronic Controls

Of my older Miele washing machine and swore would hate fully electronic controlled machines, really quite fancy the Oko-Lavamat by AEG. It is simply streets ahead of the Miele in so many ways.

The fully electronic controls allow for much finer control of the motor and drum movements. This means instead of spins that cause the machine to bang and clang (the Miele) nearly 99.9% of the time the spins are well balanced and therefore silent. Great for late night laundering.

Will agree with others electronic controls are only as good as the quality put into them. Miele for instance makes all their own motherboards for that reason.
 
are only as good as the quality put into them

And this also applies to the mechanical controls too. The wonderfully overbuilt timers of the past have performed admirably. But as they say never use "past performance to predict future trends", mechanical controls in today's machines are surely cost cut in the same manner as the electronics are.

Check back with me in 10-15 years to see how they did ;)
 
GE Dryers

Ben your GE Dryer Did Not Even Have Rollers, I would never trust the opinion of the guys that tried to scare you out of fixing your old dryer again.

It is fairly easy to check the condition of heaters, motor , idler pulley, etc when fixing a dryer, your wonderful [ I sold 2 SQ dryers and 1 FL and 2 TL SQs today ] new SQ dryer will have a failure in the first 7-15 years of use also, I hope you don't trash it also.
 
way ahead of ya combo52

in fact, I have a NIB timer for the washer on its way courtesy of Ebay. This will cover me after the warranty runs out. I would assume I can replace it with a little gumption.

I'm also searching for the motor and pump; again to cover me after the warranty runs out.
Thus, at least as far as the washer goes, I will keep repairing it until the cows come home.
 
Washman, grab a few center seals too if that is your plan.  I had an Amana washer that really put the hurt on me at 7 years of "normal" use.  In fact it was my last "expensive"  washer.  It is my understanding that a center seal change out is the same expensive repair on the modern TL SQ  machine.   As far as electronic controls,  dishwashers  seem to get the most trouble threads around here.

[this post was last edited: 2/28/2014-03:50]
 
Kenmore Touch Pad

Has anyone replaced the Kenmore touch pad control screen on a dryer? Mine has apparently gone bad, no connection when cycle is touched, just a clunk sound. Obviously they are no longer made, found one used guaranteed to work. Not sure if I can replace myself.
 
This is something

I've always worried about when looking at a new appliance! I love my new Maytag dishwasher (now 13 mos old). When reading reviews, people LOVED the machine but here and there you would see "do not buy this dishwasher" control board failed just after a year of use, etc. So I'm always paranoid because the model I want usually is not mechanically controlled.....

In fact, every single appliance I have is computer controlled

- WP over the range microwave from 2004 (still working)
- WP 2004 dishwasher died in 2014 but from the motor, not from control board
- WP Duet Dryer from 2005 (still works)
- WP Duet washer from 2005 (still works) but control board replaced 2nd year
- WP range from 2004 (still works)
- Maytag dishwasher fro 2014 (still works)

I watched this video on YouTube before I bought my Maytag hoping I would never experience this problem....

 
So for we've only had 1 applaince with 1 computer board fault. Strangly it happen right after the warranty.

Kenmore (Whirlpool) French door fridge -3 years - computer board replaced

Whirlpool duet washer - 10 months old - Still works

Kenmore (Whirlpool) Dishwasher - 1 year - Still works (Doing a load right now infact *LOL*)

Kenmore (Built by samsung) OTR microwave - 2 years old - Still works

Kenmore (Built by Frigidaire) stove - 2 years - Still works

Maytag dryer - 4 years - no computer - Still works
 
Control Board failures

Hi Mark, if it helps your luck at all with your new MT DW the veido you posted about repairing a MT DW was about one of the older MT designed and built DWs. WP scrapped that design and I can tell you as a tech that that MT design was the worst DW I have ever seen for control panel, board and door latch problems we ever saw in the last decade or so.

 

Your new MT DW is a completely different DW, this is where it is a shame that WP kept the MT name. We sell and install about two new MT DWs a week, no problems with any in the last few years yet.

 

John L.
 
John

thanks for that. Makes me feel better. Yea I thought that was an older model maytag in the video. The maytag I have is honestly the best dishwasher I have ever used and ironically it feels more solid than any dishwasher I've ever used. Hopefully the controls won't fail. I know this particular dishwasher I have doesn't have a vent at all, which is odd. So I wasn't sure if that would cause shortened life of the control board because of the heat and moisture.
 

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