Euro Washer and Dryers. Which Brand do you like?

[toggleswitch]

Ok we have established that a Euro-condenser dryer heats the room w/out humidity. Good for winter.

So now I am thinking about getting a set of W & D.

So may I ask our international friends on that continent to provide a list of favorites, in order (top 5 to 7 say) then a short reason as to why?

Are ASKOs decent?

THANKS!

 

[foraloysius]

Since not all European brands are available in the USA this I won't make it to 7 brands.

#1. My all time favourite is Miele. It's the best you can get, but also the most expensive. And it's a pity the models on the American market are dumbed down. The stupidest thing is that they don't have separate rinse and spin and spin only cycles. I especially like the new models available on the European market, very sleek modern design. I will post a few pictures later.

#2. Second best is AEG. Unfortunately on your side of the pond only available in Canada. AEG was always Miele's biggest competitor on the Dutch market. Both had a 20% share, leaving the rest to all the other brands.

#3. Slightly hesitant I say Asko. Not as refined as Miele and AEG. The chassis of an Asko is very sturdy. They are very flexible machines. A big pro is the door of the washer that doesn't have a gasket. There are however a few downsides. In the past Asko's have not been very reliable machines, there have been many posts on THS about that. But an extended warranty could take care of that. A big minus of the dryer is that the drum tumbles only one way. Other European dryers tumble both ways to prevent bigger items from balling up. Because the drums of European dryers are much smaller you really need a two way tumble system. Another thing that would worry me is the customer service in the USA. I have read many horror stories about it.

#4. Bosch and Siemens. Same machines, different labels. In general I like the design of the Siemens machines better than of the Bosch ones. There were also some horror stories on THS about Bosch. But I don't know if the problems are frequent or not.

As for the other brands (don't know exactly what is available), I would stay away from them.

Louis

 

[lavamat_jon]

My top 5 from a European point of view

1 - Miele - built like tanks and have been proven time and time again to last forever, and are also quite programmable from the operator's point of view. The US models are also programmable too and offer the same programmable functions as the European machines, however you need to download foreign manuals in order to get the instructions as the US customers aren't told.

2 - AEG; a decent washer for cheaper than a Miele, although IMO their washers are more or less quite as good in terms of performance. Build quality wise, AEG's are solid but the Miele's still have the edge. Higher end Zanussi's are also of the same sort of quality boundary as AEG's, although the AEG does have an edge over the higher end Zanussis in some aspects.

3 - BSH. Good machines if your the sort to whip the laundry in and leave and forget it - and durability wise they are quite good (ours only really got wrecked from the builders shoving it about and things spiralled from there). However the rinsing is a bit touché and they are more dumbed down than Miele's and AEG's for a washer enthuasiast. But if you are the one to chuck everything in on one or two cycles, come back a couple of hours later to clean laundry then they are good machines.

4 - Asko. As Louis said they are well built, but there have been many horror stories about them. They aren't as sophisticated as Bosch, AEG or Miele machines either - and although they appear to have a lot of different cycles they are mainly just variations of the one cycle, unlike cycles, say on a Miele or AEG, where cycles are completely different and have unique tumbling actions, rather than the only difference between an easy cares and cottons cycle being no spinning between the rinses. They do have the cool factor, though.

5 - Low end - mid range Electrolux brands. Good machines for the money, and are far better machines than what is available for the same price - Indesit, Hotpoint etc. Not available in the US, but had to fill out my top 5 somehow and they are the only cheap machines I would buy.

Avoid Eurotech/Malber/Supra/the compact Whirlpool's and such like the plague, as they are made by the same guys as Servis over here and are truly disposable machines - literally after 1 wash you throw it away! Ditto with Ariston machines which are available in the US. Have heard quite positive reviews about the compact Danby's though, although apparently they are becoming hard to find but at $400 or so they are a steal.

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

Glossary

BSH - Bosch-Siemens Hausgeraete. The company that owns the domestic appliance divisions of Bosch and Siemens.

Jon

 

[SactoTeddyBear]

Re: Opinion:

My opinion even though this is from an American Club Member, if I were to be looking into buying a new Front-Load Washer and Dryer, made Overseas from the US, I would go with the ASKO, unless Price doesn't have to "Weigh" into the purchase, then I would go with the Miele Set.

I have checked out the ASKO's and Miele and considering the smaller amount of Laundry I do Weekly, I would probably go with ASKO. Since I'm living in my own house and I do have the ability to Vent a Dryer, I would go with the Vented Dryer. If I weren't able to Vent a Dryer, I would certainly go with a Condenser Model.

Good Luck with you selection, let us know which you finally decide on and why.

Fun Laundry Times, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...

 

[maytagbear]

Well,

I am one of those who still read and (generally) believe Consumer Reports, and the Asko dishwashers have truly terrible repair records, so I would think four times about getting Asko laundry. If I could be sure of the quality of local service, that might sway me. Might.

I just got back from the new house of a friend, and she has the Bosch Nexxts, and likes them, so far. But they aren't compacts! This was the first time I have seen them "live," and not in a show room.

She and her husband have been in the house less than two weeks, and she hasn't used them much.

(The rest of the list: GE glass/gas cooktop, GE 30 inch built in electric oven, LG bottom freezer fridge, Bosch dishwasher (looked midlevel to me,) and a Panasonic microwave.)

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[panthera]

From Best to Worst

1) Miele. Unfortunately, US Miele are set to the "Dick and Jane" level. Get a German or UK-English user's guide so you can really enjoy the machine. Longest lived, highest quality, best service, excellent results, a company which chose the quality niche to survive and has stuck with it.
2) AEG. If you can find one - not as long lived as Miele-for a while there, the electronics kept count of the number of cycles run then demanded a service call. That one did them a lot of harm in marketing their electronic products. They claim to have eliminated the young, dynamic marketing managers who thought that one up. Outstanding parts service, usually test out #2 (behind Miele) in the consumer guides. Much cheaper than Miele but will outlast most anything else. Like Miele, they tend to build one "style" for many years if not decades, improving the ergonomics and fixing little problems along the way.
3) BSH - (Bosch-Siemens Haushalt) This is the division of the enormous Siemens group which builds appliances. They have the easiest to use machines, often have beautiful design (FA Porsche) and come in a very close third right behind AEG. I have never had service problems with them, but the nightmares you hear in the 'States can't all have been made-up or exaggerated. If I lived with someone who was, what is the current American politically correct term for mentally impaired...ah, yes, "intellectually challenged" - then these would be the clear first choice. Or if I lived in a commune with a bunch of het men. Same thing in the end.
4)Gah, you did say five or more....Hmm, ok, other Electrolux stuff apart from AEG. Tests well in the consumer guides. Maybe Zanussi, if you can get it. Which you can't. Pity, that.
5)I shall now promptly be flamed by the rest of the Europeans, but, ok: Candy. Stipulated, Candy has bad quality. Candy also has cutting edge design - mechanically as well as in appearance and ergonomics. Everyone I know here in Germany has, at one point or other sighed and said: "If only Candy were built like Miele"...
Anything "British" isn't. Hoover and Hotpoint and so on are all now one big trashy conglomerate. The Brits have the same problem the Americans have - they really believe in their country so tend to buy "domestic". The manufacturers use this patriotism shamelessly. Both in the UK and the US.
Now that so many other Europeans have chimed in with me about the Whirlpool/Bauknecht group, I needn't warn you away from them. I know we tend to look at our vintage Kenmores and Whirlpools and have positive associations, but read the other posts on the subject - they make me sound reasonable. Whirlpool=Poorest Quality.
Anything with "Euro-" in the name. Just a marketing ploy.
I repaired too many over priced Askos to have anything good to say about them, so I left them off the list. At half the price they would be number three on my list. But as things stand, forget it. You are being taken to the cleaners, literally.
****
We are comparing two different things here. The least reliable Candy is built to quality standards several million times higher than the shit made in the US for the domestic market. We expect our machines not to break for at least eight years over here. Funny, when US manufactured goods are exported to Europe, they are of very high quality. It is not that the Americans can't build quality, rather - the managers know that they can get away with junk in the 'States, so they do...Just put a US flag on it and folks will spend their hard earned money for it, thinking they are helping their country.

Oh, dryers. Hmm, I don't like European dryers. Even with reverse tumbling they are too small for my taste. Stick with a US machine built before quality went to hell - GE, Maytag, (real) Frigidaire.

 

[vivalalavatrice]

Here you are the list...

Without any doubt, German products in Europe are the best of all! Either for the reliablity of them, than for the strogness and the durability. But I don't know the availablity in US of those brands...

If I had to make a list, I'd write it like so:

1. Miele
2. AEG
3. Siemens
4. Bosch

Sometimes Siemens and Bosch has not a very clear control panel... but perhaps only for some model is like so.

That's my list not considering the cost! GERMAN BRANDS ARE THE MOST EXPENSIVE OF THE WHOLE EUROPEANS MARKET!

For all those good features you get, you pay! You could pay even 2000€ for a Miele washer, when the avarage is 1000€ for the other brands. Of course I wouldn't ave any problem to purchase a Miele if I had the conspicious budget!

Here in Italy, you wouldn't believe it but Whirlpool has a quite high rate indeed... but honestly I wouldn't know to say why.
Alghout that, people don't forget Electrolux strongness with REX brand, while other continue to appreciate Merloni (Ariston/Indesit), but so if European means Italian too, the list would be the following:

1. REX (Electrolux)
2. ARISTON (Merloni)
3. CANDY (Brandt)
4. WHIRLPOOL
5. INDESIT (Merloni)
6. IGNIS (Whirlpool)
7. SANGIORGIO (Brandt)

I would't blend the two lists I did, If you are choosing among Germa brands (first of all you have a lot of money ) )you already know what you exaclty are looking for, I think here none would compare German brands with others.

Only if you live in an apartment (and sometimes neither in that case), and you cannot hang out at all you buy a dryer... Milan which is a very congestionate town has got those very sad building in the suburbs with the sheets hanging out of the balcony even in winter... those are usually public condos in wich very poor people live, I think they don't care of a dryer... Here is very very common to hang out, balcony or back yard, we all have the clothes line otudoor! I hate it but sometimes it can be funny! )

Good Bye
Diomede

 

[lavamat_jon]

Bosch quality

I have to say that I am very disappointed with my mum's Bosch only lasting for just over 3 years - by the time it was 3 years old, bearings had gone, and the PCB had also failed meaning that it would get stuck on the extra rinse if you used it, and also wouldn't complete the final spin. £180 for the PCB, and £100 for a bearing change plus whatever would have cost in labour after 3 years - not anything I wanted from a so-called quality machine. So I would say there is a huge difference in quality between AEG's and more expensive Zanussi's and Electrolux machines, than Bosch. Know several other people with bad experiences with Bosch machines too (there's Saj (sadose), and Steve I think in Australia (sorry if I've got you rname wrong!) who both post on this board), and for their somewhat mediocre performance & mediocre rinsing I would give them a miss. The Bosch vented dryer on the other hand is great - but unfortunately they aren't made anymore in Germany and they instead have their dryers made for them by Gorenje in Slovenia.

Based on what I have heard, and also from their close relationship to AEG, I recommended a Zanussi to my mum (which is being dleivered on Tuesday), and in the store it felt a lot more durable & more well built than equivalent Bosch machines - and from several people on this board who own Zanussi washers I think we've made the best choice.

Panthera - funny you say that us Europeans expect machines not to break for 8 years. From what I ahve noticed at least, is that everyone seems to be replacing their washers nowadays every 3 or 4 years cos the majority of them are so craply made - the quality of our appliances are no better than the stuff in the US. In fact from the US stuff I have seen, I would probably say that the US machines would stand up to a helluva lot more than the cheap Indesits, Aristons, Servis, Hotpoint etc machines sold here.

Hoover machines are Welsh built Candy's and IMO are pretty well built for the price point - Hotpoitn on the other hand are identical to Ariston machines so I would avoid them like the plague.

Jon

 

[toggleswitch]

So far, so good.

Thanks all!

 

[panthera]

Jon,

I am sorry - the first time I visited England, I made the horrid mistake of refering to the British Isles as being "European". My Scottish relatives and our English host spent a solid evening disabusing me of that notion.
Since then, whenever I speak of "Europe" I mean Germany, France, Italy, Denmark, the Netherlands, etc....everything up to the Jersey Islands...but not the UK.
The quality of white goods made for sale in the UK has long been miserable; it is easily on a par with the stuff sold in the US.
The manufacturers - regardless of their location - market goods at a quality level which is the lowest the market will bear. American firms produce much higher quality lab equipment for the German market - this I know first hand from our university labs -
The same applies to the UK.
Germans and Italians are, in general, just plain bitchy-er about bad quality than are the English and so get higher quality products.
Hotpoint was once a great brand...since Merloni took them over it has been all downhill.
I am sorry your mum had so much trouble with Bosch. I never had trouble getting replacement parts from them, but then - I had a franchised dealer's licence number whenever I rang them and it was in their interest to keep me happy. I have often read that their service outside of Germany is unbelievable.
The eight years aren't made up - that is the sum often quoted in consumer surveys taken by testing agencies. Again, here on the continent.
We've seen some tremendous differences between "my" Europe and "your" Europe in the past - I suspect we shall see others in the future. No doubt about it - and I hope you aren't offended by this - their is a lot more in common between the UK and the US then between the continent and the UK.
Keven

 

[lavamat_jon]

Keven,

It wasn't so much the trouble of being able to get replacement parts for Bosch... it was the cost of them! Another reason why we opted for a Zanussi - a decent quality machine - on par or better than Bosch, but parts are also of a decent price and are easily available, plus Zanussi machines are also more user-servicable - in my experience - than Bosch machines.

Talking of Bosch parts, our dog managed to chew up the piece of plastic that attached to the dryer vent hose to the exhaust vent on the machine itself. For a piece of plastic, Bosch are asking £30 to replace it. So now we just leave the outside door in the utlity room open whenever the dryer is running!

Still, I don't believe manufacturers deliberately make brand X more reliable in country A than in country B - instead I feel that in countries where there's a disposable society people buy more cheaper brands and are happy to have them last 3 or 4 years, whereas in countries such as Germany more people will buy the brands that last.

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

BTW

No offence taken about the whole European thing. People in this country can be very patrioritic (sp), my grandad for example won't buy anything German, and sometimes you'd think he thought I was a traitor for owning a Miele washing machine, all because of what happened 60 years ago. I myself see us as part of Europe, although I do hate the European Union and think that the whole idea of the United States of Europe is a bit too controlling for my liking (close to our hearts, the energy label being an example), but geographically we still are in Europe and I do consider myself European.

Hotpoint has always been a mediocre brand - not too reliable but very easy to repair and had cheap spares, although if you bought one it could easily last you 20 years as long as you could maintain it. Unfortunately since they were bought up by Merloni they've lost that whole aspect to them and have actually seen sales drop - many people now know not to buy Hotpoint. Unfortunately, these same people often don't buy Hotpoint but end up buying an Indesit which is more or less the same machine!

Take care,

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

One last thing...

...is that the majority of Bosch and Siemens washers, sold in the UK at least, aren't made in Germany but are actually manufactured in Spanish in the Balay factories instead - which is probably the reason why you hear of quite a few horror stories with Bosch over here.

Jon

 

[panthera]

Jon,

I wish you were right, but I have seen it myself. First, with lab equipment - the stuff we get from HP over here is way better put together (I know, this is mostly a matter of appearance) then the same equipment I see at CSU when I am in the states.
And HP is one of the best.
Second, I have two identical Sony laptops. One built for the US market, one for Europe. Same "specs", but the European laptop has 0 dead pixels and the US came with two...and the seller informed me this was well within the range permitted under the Sony designation. Since I had bought the European one first (obviously) I went back and asked what was up when I returned to Germany. The dealer informed me that they wouldn't accept anything less than perfect displays, 'cause the customers wouldn't buy them.
Seen the same thing with other products...but I think this is simply one of those areas where we see things differently.
Seriously, why wouldn't companies adjust their quality to suit the target markets? It makes perfect sense from a young, dynamic manager standpoint...where quality is not an ideal, but a cost factor.

 

[panthera]

Bosch build quality

Jon,
I think that sort of proves the point...but it is sad, sad, sad the way "patriotism" is used to sell products. When my folks had their car accident last year and I had to buy them a new car, my dad insisted it be "American". OK, fine - I found one with excellent safety ratings. Nearly as good as Volvo or Volkswagen. Now the car has been in the shop three times since then for recalls and various parts falling off...
The funny thing about all of this (funny as in "crazy", not as in "ha-ha") is that the same decline in quality led to US consumers buying Japanese cars instead of the domestic - and even today, when the Japanese cars are more expensive they still hold their market share. Once the Chinese have ramped up their quality, I predict the end of all the rotten US manufacturers. Merloni won't be far behind over here.
First you introduce better quality at a lower price. Then you keep the quality up while gradually adding "premium" features. Then you have loyal customers and can kill the lower-quality competition off, even though you charge higher prices.

 

[hoovermatic]

In reality, there is a great deal of snobbery in the UK when it comes to some buyers of appliances and they will only go for names. It is all part of the designer culture. The truth is that many of the makes of machines that are so maligned are perfectly servicable and adequate for hundreds of thousands of households all over the UK. When I was in the rental market I came across many Servis, Candy and Ariston appliances which were perfectly good at what they did and required no repair. My partner's mother, who rents out property, has 14 year old Candy dishwashers and Ariston WM's in her properties that go on and on and on with no problems. One of her properties has Beko appliances and there is nothing wrong with them. They have all the features that any one could possibly want at a fraction of the cost.

 

[panthera]

snobbery

Paul,
You haven't seen snobbery until you encounter the Germans who made a killing in the market highs of the 1990s. They all descended on us here in Munihc.
Such conspicious consumption - it was just discusting. It also gave the flashy, cheaply built but dearly sold brands a foot in the door.
Beko is not necessairly poor quality - I have a fridge from them which is going on 6 and I must say it has proven very reliable. Certainly form and fit are not as good as the BSH cousins, but for the price absolutely in order.

 

[hoovermatic]

Beko

I agree that Beko is not necessarily poor quality but you should hear some people on that subject!! Even the so called 'sales' people in the electrical stores (many of them are not sales people at all as they know nothing and hang around the store like a lot of uniformed cadavers). My parents have a Beko frige and freezer which they bought 13 years ago and they are great pieces and I have a huge Beko fridge freezer which was a fraction of the cost of the so called 'names' and has better features.

It is a similar phenomenon to the supermarket snobbery that is so rife in the UK. Can you beleive that people look down on others if they shop at Asda as opposed to Sainsbury's and others would rather travel miles to use Waitrose just because of the strange prestige that they imagine it gives them.