toploader1984
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- Feb 14, 2009
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go to this website http://www.allbrandservicenaperville.com/products-washer.html
EVERYBODY should read this!
- Thread starter toploader1984
- Start date
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Bah. Most of his points are exaggerated and there are errors & omissions in his data table.
toploader1984
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 551
they arent exaggerated, they are FACTS! i had a front loader LG, and sold it after 2 years, i couldnt stand it anymore! not lg ALL front loaders DO have a shorter lifespan, its a proven fact, i bought my ge filter flo off of craigslist that is almost 30 years old! and still runs FINE! plus, it is also a FACT that speed queen washers are better than ANY on the market. it is also a FACT that over 90 percent of front loaders are made over seas. it is also a FACT that computer boards are very un reliable and tempermeantal, my LG sometimes wouldnt turn on when i would push the button, i would have to push it two or three times. for only a 2 year old machine, that is very unacceptable.
aquarius1984
Well-known member
ALL FL's are unreliable?
Well this one certainly got to 33 years old without any troubles and had its first repair this year
Well this one certainly got to 33 years old without any troubles and had its first repair this year
aquarius1984
Well-known member
this one made it to 24 years old before we overhauled it as it started on its way out
aquarius1984
Well-known member
This one is almost 30 and has never had any repairs
aquarius1984
Well-known member
25 years old and amazingly NO repairs
aquarius1984
Well-known member
25 years old, no repairs yet but requires a little motor re tuning when we get chance. Intermittant problem. they all have their little quirks though dont they LOL 
With Deference to American machines
This poster can polarize a discussion which may be worth the merits of continuing. To every experience there are more to counter it. It would seem to me, based on experience, listening to conversations and looking on line, American front loaders require more repair than the traditional top loader. This may be due in part to our operating them with no water and 20 pounds of wet laundry smashing down like a sack of potatoes, under loading which makes them spin wobbly and the gigantic and cavernous tubs which are too much weight for a single shaft to support. Before we go to our corners, could we have a deeper discussion into the perforamcne of American washing machines?
This poster can polarize a discussion which may be worth the merits of continuing. To every experience there are more to counter it. It would seem to me, based on experience, listening to conversations and looking on line, American front loaders require more repair than the traditional top loader. This may be due in part to our operating them with no water and 20 pounds of wet laundry smashing down like a sack of potatoes, under loading which makes them spin wobbly and the gigantic and cavernous tubs which are too much weight for a single shaft to support. Before we go to our corners, could we have a deeper discussion into the perforamcne of American washing machines?
aquarius1984
Well-known member
and my Pièce de résistance.....
a line of perfectly white laundry washed in a low water level front loading machine that was achieved without the use of chlorine bleach, tons of water or chemicals other than a regular washing powder.
No additives, no extras no nothing.
My usual weekly wash courtesy of a FL.
a line of perfectly white laundry washed in a low water level front loading machine that was achieved without the use of chlorine bleach, tons of water or chemicals other than a regular washing powder.
No additives, no extras no nothing.
My usual weekly wash courtesy of a FL.
I found what the guy had to say was kinda interesting and alot of it was false. Just because someone puts it in print doesnt mean that its a fact. Like his point on 29 inch Whirlpool dryers with the EquaFlow drying system. He says that they have had few problems...not so since this dryer design had been recalled once for a safety issue with catching on fire. Sure its been the standard of the industry and it doesnt look like Whirlpool is going to kill the design anytime soon.
The other thing that frosted my cookies was on how he said not to buy a Miele, Bosch, Asko dishwasher. He said that it would be too expensive to install over an American dishwasher...not so its cost is about the same and these dishwashers can be hard wired if one had to. Plus the water inlet connection has an adapter. Mine happened to be under the sink area and was relatively easy to install. Plus I have a plug outlet there as well.
The other thing that frosted my cookies was on how he said not to buy a Miele, Bosch, Asko dishwasher. He said that it would be too expensive to install over an American dishwasher...not so its cost is about the same and these dishwashers can be hard wired if one had to. Plus the water inlet connection has an adapter. Mine happened to be under the sink area and was relatively easy to install. Plus I have a plug outlet there as well.
laundromat
Well-known member
human error
I dissagree with those who believe that front loaders have a shorter life span than top loaders.Most top load owners overload them,use way too much detergent,bleach and fabric softners,do not whipe them off after use and do not leave the lid open for it to air out and let the humidity inside evaprate causing oxidation on the top and sharp edges on the lip.They(most of them) have transmisions with plastic parts that wear out and they agitate so vigorously they tare clothes to shreds.
My L.G.,my GE(made by Electrolux),my Frigidaire,my Askos,my KitchenAids and my old Westinghouse washers were in grerat shape after I had used them a few years and sold them out to those who needed them. The only ones I had issues with were a Kenmore(Electrolux) top of the line front loader that went and took a shit by the berring seals going bad within 1 year and Sears wouldn't cover it.It got as far as 6 court hearings and about $1400.I swore I would never buy another Sears product.The others worked perfectly. The only issue I had was a friend who,while I was in England,decided to try and wash a bamboo rug in it. It got the rug clean but the door latch broke and it was out of commision for 5 weeks.When I returned,I asked her to leave.I always used the right amount of detergent,never overloaded,always selected the correct cycle,ran it through with straight chlorine bleach and hot,hot water once a month,Windexed it once a day,put 1 coat of "NuFinish" on it once every three months to help keep the shine and eliminate the chance of oxydation(rust),and last but most important,I LEAVE THE DOOR ON THE WASHER OPEN AFTER USE TO KEEP ANY FORM OF MOLD OR MILDEW GROWING!!! I would say that at least 75% of the problems folks have withfront loaders is ther own doing,not the fault of the manufacturers.If you want one made in USA,I'd recomend either the Frigidaire or the Electrolux.The factory in Agusta Georgia makes them as well as the Wascomat comercial laundry products.Because of that,The domestic Frigidaires have to pass the comercial standards the Wascomats pass.The GE's are made in China,The L.G.s are made in South Korea,the Whirlpool,Maytag,and Kenmore front loading HE washers are made in Germany by Bauhneckt.
The Speed Queens stand alone.They have both inner and outer stainless steel tubs,Perferated wash arms that are molded on to the actual wash tub.They are covered by a 3 year in home parts and labor warranty.Made in Racine Wisconson.
I dissagree with those who believe that front loaders have a shorter life span than top loaders.Most top load owners overload them,use way too much detergent,bleach and fabric softners,do not whipe them off after use and do not leave the lid open for it to air out and let the humidity inside evaprate causing oxidation on the top and sharp edges on the lip.They(most of them) have transmisions with plastic parts that wear out and they agitate so vigorously they tare clothes to shreds.
My L.G.,my GE(made by Electrolux),my Frigidaire,my Askos,my KitchenAids and my old Westinghouse washers were in grerat shape after I had used them a few years and sold them out to those who needed them. The only ones I had issues with were a Kenmore(Electrolux) top of the line front loader that went and took a shit by the berring seals going bad within 1 year and Sears wouldn't cover it.It got as far as 6 court hearings and about $1400.I swore I would never buy another Sears product.The others worked perfectly. The only issue I had was a friend who,while I was in England,decided to try and wash a bamboo rug in it. It got the rug clean but the door latch broke and it was out of commision for 5 weeks.When I returned,I asked her to leave.I always used the right amount of detergent,never overloaded,always selected the correct cycle,ran it through with straight chlorine bleach and hot,hot water once a month,Windexed it once a day,put 1 coat of "NuFinish" on it once every three months to help keep the shine and eliminate the chance of oxydation(rust),and last but most important,I LEAVE THE DOOR ON THE WASHER OPEN AFTER USE TO KEEP ANY FORM OF MOLD OR MILDEW GROWING!!! I would say that at least 75% of the problems folks have withfront loaders is ther own doing,not the fault of the manufacturers.If you want one made in USA,I'd recomend either the Frigidaire or the Electrolux.The factory in Agusta Georgia makes them as well as the Wascomat comercial laundry products.Because of that,The domestic Frigidaires have to pass the comercial standards the Wascomats pass.The GE's are made in China,The L.G.s are made in South Korea,the Whirlpool,Maytag,and Kenmore front loading HE washers are made in Germany by Bauhneckt.
The Speed Queens stand alone.They have both inner and outer stainless steel tubs,Perferated wash arms that are molded on to the actual wash tub.They are covered by a 3 year in home parts and labor warranty.Made in Racine Wisconson.
aquarius1984
Well-known member
Kelly I can appreciate what you say and yes perhaps we should discuss the merits pros and cons for american FL's but it seems to me that most have some resemblence to those available in Europe like the Frigidaire's.
I dont think the capacity issue is a relevant topic to use for FL's unrelaibility just yet as they are reasonably new to the domestic market, a longer period of time will tell if these machines can be made for the right price and to a good standard for domestic use.
Manufacturers are tweaking designs as we speak I imagine.
As for the water argument I stand by my picture and can hand on heart say that the whites picture I posted above was washed in a machine that uses 15 litres of water on 5kg of cottons without bleaches additives or stain removers. Just good old regular powder.
The problem lies is that American FL machines do have rediculously short cycle times to work properly and I believe your detergents are quite different to ours so its only a matter of time before our way of washing catches on.
While the machine is doing its thing we can all be getting along with something else.
Its worked over here for sure.
I will say that my exeriences with SQ TL's have been rather dismal, i remember in the early 90's my mother using one on a campsite in Cornwall to wash our towels on holiday.
She definately selected Hot and the water was piping with steam rising from the lid, she used Ariel powder ( for toploaders twin tubs which is like your Tide) and still the results were no way near as good as the FL could achieve at even lower temps.
I have used SQ's since and found the results leaving far to be desired.
I know other members have had difficulties with American TL's too yet I can get great results with our UK Hotpoint TL which has a heater and long wash and soak times.
I was quite amused at something posted a while back to do with SQ agitators or softener dispensers snagging clothes and the member having several problems with IIRC finding a new FS dispenser that didnt have sharp edges to fit his brand new machine. I did think at the time that if SQ cant source or produce a soft edged piece of plastic that woudlnt damage clothes then they didnt have much of a quality control system.
So much for the being gentle on clothes, kinda throws that argument out the window IMHO.
This could turn out to be a rather good thread for us all to interact with experiences.
R
I dont think the capacity issue is a relevant topic to use for FL's unrelaibility just yet as they are reasonably new to the domestic market, a longer period of time will tell if these machines can be made for the right price and to a good standard for domestic use.
Manufacturers are tweaking designs as we speak I imagine.
As for the water argument I stand by my picture and can hand on heart say that the whites picture I posted above was washed in a machine that uses 15 litres of water on 5kg of cottons without bleaches additives or stain removers. Just good old regular powder.
The problem lies is that American FL machines do have rediculously short cycle times to work properly and I believe your detergents are quite different to ours so its only a matter of time before our way of washing catches on.
While the machine is doing its thing we can all be getting along with something else.
Its worked over here for sure.
I will say that my exeriences with SQ TL's have been rather dismal, i remember in the early 90's my mother using one on a campsite in Cornwall to wash our towels on holiday.
She definately selected Hot and the water was piping with steam rising from the lid, she used Ariel powder ( for toploaders twin tubs which is like your Tide) and still the results were no way near as good as the FL could achieve at even lower temps.
I have used SQ's since and found the results leaving far to be desired.
I know other members have had difficulties with American TL's too yet I can get great results with our UK Hotpoint TL which has a heater and long wash and soak times.
I was quite amused at something posted a while back to do with SQ agitators or softener dispensers snagging clothes and the member having several problems with IIRC finding a new FS dispenser that didnt have sharp edges to fit his brand new machine. I did think at the time that if SQ cant source or produce a soft edged piece of plastic that woudlnt damage clothes then they didnt have much of a quality control system.
So much for the being gentle on clothes, kinda throws that argument out the window IMHO.
This could turn out to be a rather good thread for us all to interact with experiences.
R
toploader1984
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 551
when i posted this thread it was meant for people in AMERICA, not the uk. obviously people who live in the uk are going to like front loaders, i think it is really nice that people from the uk are ALWAYS making comments on here totally bashing top loaders, and ALWAYS swear that front loaders are so much better.
ronhic
Well-known member
I'm not in a position to argue for or against American built or designed machines when it comes to issues of reliability and longevity and I would hazard a guess that there are people here that have their favourites that this person has said are rubbish etc....
Is part of the problem capacity disillusionment?
I have to say that I am a firm believer that the way capacity is measured is one of the reasons that people become dissatisfied with their machines.
Bare with me....
What is or constitutes a cubic foot of laundry?
I've read on here somewhere that there was a change in the way capacity was stated partly because manufacturers were making outrageous claims and the poundage/kilo system was becoming a joke. But at least the consumer knows and understands what a pound/kilo is and uses the measurement daily. Additionally, it isn't too hard, if you want to, to find out how much clothing, manchester etc constitutes a pound/kilo (laundry basket, yourself, clothes and bathroom scales do it roughly).
Then to the next problem - capacity and loading.
Australians, Canadians and Americans all understand how to load (Ok, there are some idiots out there) a top load machine so that it will wash and give good results without destroying your clothes. Basically, it comes down to 'drop loading' i.e. drop clothes etc into the basket, don't push them down in, and choosing the appropriate water level compared to how high up the agitator the clothes come....
Front load machines are different and when people move from one to the other for the first time they need to be educated how to load. You shouldn't just shove items in. Sheets and towels washed together can do horrible things to balance and a full load is generally better than a small load especially with HUGE capacity machines.
To give you an idea of what 'Joe public' does and doesn't know, this happened at a laundromat near Russell Square station in London in 1997 and is true....
I had come back from a trip to Europe and was doing the washing when a lady walked in with 2 HUGE suitcases of washing to do. She looked at the row of machines (I have no idea what they were) and started to put washing in one next to me. After putting a couple of pairs of jeans and a few t-shirts in she went to close the door and start on the next machine.....
....so I mentioned that 'you can put more in than that'...
....'oh really?' was the reply. (American accent)
So she started to put a couple more things in...the machine was less than 1/3 full and she went to close the door again.
....'keep going, it'll take much more' said I.
....'Are you sure?' was the reply
So a little more goes in and the machine is STILL less than 1/2 full.....
On my last attempt....
....'you can put much more in there and it will save you using 4 machines'
....'will it wash ok?'
....'you can fill that machine until it is at least to the top of the door and it will wash fine - millions of European mothers and grandmothers can't be wrong!'
Finally, she 2/3 filled it.....and sat and watched the entire cycle like a hawk
The most recent example was a couple of Canadian friends. Both girls and about 33yrs. Came to stay here with us and needed to do washing....so I introduced them to the Hoover I had.
To say that both were amazed at how much 'can fit into such a tiny machine...I wouldn't put all of that in my appartment complex's machines at home'....it was only 4kg/9lb machine....
I suppose that what I am getting at is that when people learnt how to do their laundry in an automatic in Oz, Canada and the US, it was generally in a top load automatic. Mum or Grandma showed us what to do and how to do it...and more often explained why....
Roll forward 20/30/40/50 years....and many many more people are switching to front load machines....
.....but WHO IS SHOWING THEM HOW TO USE THEM PROPERLY??????
So we have a couple of problems....
Overly large capacity front load machines.....that need to be loaded properly
AND
A huge group of people who now have these machines but have no idea how to get the best out of them......
...which leads to problems with reliability (unbalanced loads, overloading [though this is more difficult with a front loader], over dosing with detergent, wrong detergetn, closing doors between loads...the list goes on). If we address these issues it is likely that people will be happy with the performance of their machines AND they will be more reliable...
Is part of the problem capacity disillusionment?
I have to say that I am a firm believer that the way capacity is measured is one of the reasons that people become dissatisfied with their machines.
Bare with me....
What is or constitutes a cubic foot of laundry?
I've read on here somewhere that there was a change in the way capacity was stated partly because manufacturers were making outrageous claims and the poundage/kilo system was becoming a joke. But at least the consumer knows and understands what a pound/kilo is and uses the measurement daily. Additionally, it isn't too hard, if you want to, to find out how much clothing, manchester etc constitutes a pound/kilo (laundry basket, yourself, clothes and bathroom scales do it roughly).
Then to the next problem - capacity and loading.
Australians, Canadians and Americans all understand how to load (Ok, there are some idiots out there) a top load machine so that it will wash and give good results without destroying your clothes. Basically, it comes down to 'drop loading' i.e. drop clothes etc into the basket, don't push them down in, and choosing the appropriate water level compared to how high up the agitator the clothes come....
Front load machines are different and when people move from one to the other for the first time they need to be educated how to load. You shouldn't just shove items in. Sheets and towels washed together can do horrible things to balance and a full load is generally better than a small load especially with HUGE capacity machines.
To give you an idea of what 'Joe public' does and doesn't know, this happened at a laundromat near Russell Square station in London in 1997 and is true....
I had come back from a trip to Europe and was doing the washing when a lady walked in with 2 HUGE suitcases of washing to do. She looked at the row of machines (I have no idea what they were) and started to put washing in one next to me. After putting a couple of pairs of jeans and a few t-shirts in she went to close the door and start on the next machine.....
....so I mentioned that 'you can put more in than that'...
....'oh really?' was the reply. (American accent)
So she started to put a couple more things in...the machine was less than 1/3 full and she went to close the door again.
....'keep going, it'll take much more' said I.
....'Are you sure?' was the reply
So a little more goes in and the machine is STILL less than 1/2 full.....
On my last attempt....
....'you can put much more in there and it will save you using 4 machines'
....'will it wash ok?'
....'you can fill that machine until it is at least to the top of the door and it will wash fine - millions of European mothers and grandmothers can't be wrong!'
Finally, she 2/3 filled it.....and sat and watched the entire cycle like a hawk
The most recent example was a couple of Canadian friends. Both girls and about 33yrs. Came to stay here with us and needed to do washing....so I introduced them to the Hoover I had.
To say that both were amazed at how much 'can fit into such a tiny machine...I wouldn't put all of that in my appartment complex's machines at home'....it was only 4kg/9lb machine....
I suppose that what I am getting at is that when people learnt how to do their laundry in an automatic in Oz, Canada and the US, it was generally in a top load automatic. Mum or Grandma showed us what to do and how to do it...and more often explained why....
Roll forward 20/30/40/50 years....and many many more people are switching to front load machines....
.....but WHO IS SHOWING THEM HOW TO USE THEM PROPERLY??????
So we have a couple of problems....
Overly large capacity front load machines.....that need to be loaded properly
AND
A huge group of people who now have these machines but have no idea how to get the best out of them......
...which leads to problems with reliability (unbalanced loads, overloading [though this is more difficult with a front loader], over dosing with detergent, wrong detergetn, closing doors between loads...the list goes on). If we address these issues it is likely that people will be happy with the performance of their machines AND they will be more reliable...
toploader1984
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2009
- Messages
- 551
the problem is the american machines, one that comes close to a european machine is the speed queen front loader which is a great machine, with the stainless steel baffles and steel outer tub. i noticed that ALL the front loaders in the pictures above have MECHANICAL knobs rather than electronic controlls, that could possibly be the problem with all the machines today.
norfolksouthern
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2009
- Messages
- 544
There is quite a bit of difference between a 30 year old Ariston 950 XD or 25 year old Servis Starlight and a current-model Maytag Epic or Whirlpool Cabrio. One example: I can use a smaller amount of regular detergent in my Italian Zerowatt, and it'll run without a hiccup and rinse out all traces of soap. No problem! If I tried that with an LG Tromm like Toploader had, and I would be begging for repairs later, I'm sure. So, folks. I think comparing a good, solid 25 year old commercial machine with a huge motor and stainless steel everything to a gagetized plastic modern HE marvel complete with its own web browser and internet connection would be like comparing apples to oranges.
Here's a photo of my rusty, but trusty just for good measure.
NorfolkSouthern
Here's a photo of my rusty, but trusty just for good measure.
NorfolkSouthern
ronhic
Well-known member
And here's the Hoover....How I loved that machine...15yrs and still going strong at a mates...
aquarius1984
Well-known member
No certainly not, just because im British does not mean that I automatically like FL's.
There are a couple of guys here from the UK who love TL's.
Each to their own and my posts were certainly not bashing other machines in any way rather they were making clear facts and findings based upon my own experiences and what has been posted upon this site by other members.
This is a discussion forum where sensible conversations about experiences are what bring us together,
I didnt see any mention that this thread was limited to just American participants only and that nobody else shall contribute if they have soemthing to share.
Perhaps a little input from the Europeans who do know about FL'ers would help you guys across the pond to use your machines to maximum efficiency.
We can all have something sensible and worthwhile to add to this thread.
R
There are a couple of guys here from the UK who love TL's.
Each to their own and my posts were certainly not bashing other machines in any way rather they were making clear facts and findings based upon my own experiences and what has been posted upon this site by other members.
This is a discussion forum where sensible conversations about experiences are what bring us together,
I didnt see any mention that this thread was limited to just American participants only and that nobody else shall contribute if they have soemthing to share.
Perhaps a little input from the Europeans who do know about FL'ers would help you guys across the pond to use your machines to maximum efficiency.
We can all have something sensible and worthwhile to add to this thread.
R
