F&P WashSmart Front Loader

[washer111]

Have just moved into another (shared) house in the city.

Washer here is one of those new-fangled F&P WashSmart (Smart-Drive) jobs.

After nearly a week, am finally doing my first load, after carefully reading the very simplistic manual.

All I can say is - WOW! And the cycle is only onto the final spin now

Presently doing a load of underwear/socks on the Everyday Cycle, 60ºC (140ºF), Heavy Soil, 1100rpm spin selection, Rinse + and Wrinkle Free.

Love the fact the cycle is short (about 1hr 15mins), yet the tumbling is nice and vigorous for the load. I wear socks inside (and sometimes just on the verandah outside) and they do get kinda dirty. So they're always a great test for the washer. It seems safe to say the socks, even the older ones that had some set-in staining, are coming cleaner than with the Miele W5741 on Cottons, Minimum Iron or Delicate cycles (equivalent temperature).

The machine did a couple of the famous "distribution/spin tumbles." Now, under some loading circumstances, I've found the Miele will do this, but certainly not to the extent this F&P machine does.
Initially, it tumbles quite vigorously, reversing instantly (Smart-Drive technology definitely helps) and quickly. Then all-of-a-sudden ramps up to somewhere around the 200-400rpm mark. Water and suds go absolutely everywhere. An interesting concept, I think - although no good if you routinely overdose the detergent!

Machine fills with hot OR cold water, depending on cycle and temperature selection, I presume. Given that the majority of Australians make us of solar water heating (we have a gas-storage unit by Rheem oustide, to the contrary!), this is a sound idea and makes perfect sense.
Even with gas or heat-pump, you don't have to worry about the cost of heating water from cold (i.e. 20ºC) up to some "hot" temperature. So its far more guilt-free, I think. And if you already have the water "on-hand," why let it go to waste?

I'd love to know where "Which?" made up its complaints about noise for these machines.
The splashing of the water during tumbling is louder than the machine spinning. Again, Smart-Drive means you don't hear it spinning, at all. The drive system also brakes hard to stop the load.
The pump is nowhere near as objectionable as the Miele, and seems to pump at a much quicker clip to boot. Instead of pumping for a full spin, it cycles in and out as it moves water far quicker than it is extracted.

Also appreciating that this machine isn't a "singing, dancing pop star" like LG and Samsung seem to make, among others. Just relatively simple "dings" or "beep" for each selection.

With the Rinse + selection, you get 3 rinses, and they are at truly cavernous levels. Fills nearly halfway up the tub and the rinse-tumbling (or vigorous stirring, given the water quantity) seems reasonably effective. Perhaps I'll (finally) be able to ditch using the third/extra rinse option altogether?

Only complaints are that the machine seems to make a bit of a fuss about balancing, but thats just modern FL machines for you. The other one is the lack of a door-sprayer. Miele has one, and it helps keep fluff and crap from accumulating on the door glass, sort of a self-cleaning function. But, these are two very minor complaints for a machine that otherwise seems to be superb.

I will be interested to see how my Whites/Brights go when I eventually run out of clothing to wear.
Wear a lot of white undershirts and white shirts, and (as it goes) manage to dirty them even though I'm careful. My laundering was a light-bleaching run in the Miele, in warm water roughly ever second wash, which of course kept the washer clean and my whites even whiter... I jokingly told myself I'd give up bio detergents if the results continued being so favourable!

The other thing is sweat stains. Yep, I sweat like a cold glass of water on a hot day. Thankfully, others around me note that I'm not a stinker. Guess drinking lots of water helps in more ways than one!
Getting back to the stains, I did sometimes have trouble with these and would sometimes pre-rinse shirts after removal for the day just to make sure things didn't have a chance to "sit and fester." This helped, as did some liquid-detergent pretreatment.
Anyway, I await to see how the Cottons cycle will deal with my beloved whites.

 

[vacerator]

smart drive FP,

Best hall sensor rotor/stator machine made. In fact, FP was the first.
We were able to buy them here in the States until Whirlpool dominated the market with their copy. LG and Samsung also brought their version out.

 

[appnut]

I wish F&P hade been able to sell their front loader in the U.S.  Sounds like a good machine. 

 

[washer111]

Results were as good as they looked through the window.
My oldest socks which had the set-in staining came out a lot cleaner than usual.

Exciting times ahead with this machine, I think. Will report back as I wash more clothes, and post pics as I think my laundry loads (excl. underwear/socks) may qualify for BobLoad certification.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Congratulations on your successful move. Trying out a new machine is exciting and doubly so if it is a great performer. Thanks for the thorough description of the cycle.

 

[logixx]

Vortex Wash at 9:00 minutes.

 

[mattywashboy]

I also have one of these machines And also the matching condensor dryer. I am loving both of these machines. The flexibility of the washer with its cycles is just great. Results have always been spotless. I agree about the balancing although i find it struggles more on partial loads than if I save up full loads It doesn't like balancing bedding easily thats for sure. Love the water levels too I would recommend them to anyone able to buy them!

Here's a pic of my matching set and also a video


Matt

 

[launderess]

Many front loaders are not happy doing partial loads

While my OKO-Lavamat is better, the older Miele tends to go out of balance more often with partial loads especially bed linen.

 

[askolover]

2nd that Launderess

My Asko does best when filled full.

 

[washer111]

@tomturbomatic
Thanks very much for your kinds comments.
New houses? The fun passes.
New machines (whatever they may be)? I think any AW.org member can probably attest that involves continued interest, enjoyment and excitement.
New People? Another subject, for another forum. But am enjoying the limited encounters I allow myself to have

@mattywashboy
I knew you had the F&P washer, but was unaware you had also gotten your hands on one of the dryers. I'm glad to hear your condenser dryer is working well, despite our hotter Summers (Heaven forbid if Launderess tried here Lavatherm dryer on one of our scorching summer days!)
Partial loads are the bane of many washer's existence, it seems. Even the Miele I used before would perhaps agree, and seemed far less aggressive with the spin ramp-up if it sensed a particularly heavy load. That was always favourable, as it prevented the annoying suds-lock issue from surfacing if and/or when it did.

This machine in particular has been used by other residents on the Quick15, Quick30 and Everyday cycles (on their default settings) for most of its life thus far (not very long). As a result of this, despite the door being left ajar, it is definitely starting to get a wiff to it. Thankfully, users aren't luddites and don't use cold (defaults to Warm temp for all cycles), too much (or too little) detergent and aren't users of softener.
Hopefully can change this with my washing habits (basically 50/50 hot/warm) - and won't burden the utility bill as I take nearly 2-3 weeks for each of my loads to accumlate, that is:
Darks (Shirts, Polos, etc, some shorts) - 40º
Dark ("Heavies," jeans, pants, cargo shorts) - 40º
Underwear/Socks - 60º and
Lights/Brights (Shirts and shorts) - 60º
Bedding or Towels - 60º, as needed

My results with the Underwear/Socks seems to suggest it isn't necessary with the water conditions here "South of the River," although quite the opposite would be true up round Currambine.
Water there is absolutely disgusting in taste (worse than up north without the water softener working) and somewhat hard, too. Presumably we get a different supply down this way, thankfully.

Also decided to flip the dial around and play with cycles and options. I don't know whether the machine will introduce its own variation to the published cycle times by way of "Fuzzy Logic." However, I interestingly noted the following:
- A "Cottons" cycle set at maximum spin, 60º and Heavy Soil will run for 2:37
- A "Heavy" cycle setup the same as above will run for about 2:10.

Presumably, the discrepancy either relates to the water/electrical consumption, harshness & tumbling rhythm, or a combination of both.
May just use the latter if its going to be shorter. There's no sense wasting the additional 30 mins for clothes that should technically be less soiled than those in a Heavy cycle.
Have you noted any differences between those two cycles at all, Matt?

 

[mattywashboy]

I have noticed very little difference in the Cottons and Heavy cycles apart from the length of interim spins. I use the Heavy cycle at 60 on the Light soil setting and comes up as 1:50. The interim spins on heavy are long and at 1100rpm. Cottons seems to do longer rinses and shorter interim spins. I never use the Cotton cycle, only Everyday, Heavy, Delicate and occasionally Quick 30. It's a wonderful machine

 

[washer111]

Alright, Folks!

Its time for photos!

Today, I finally needed to get my load of Lights/Whites out of the way. Now, excluding the big sin of putting two towels in there (they're white too, not washing just two items separately!), I'm excited.

Despite the deceptively small small drum, everything fit in a treat, and I reckon I could still squeeze another pair or two of pants (i.e. Chinos) in there with relative ease.

Water levels on the Heavy cycle are D-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-P: In the washing phase.
Thats something different for a machine from 2016! Miele would use an "ultra-low" water level, lower than in the cottons cycle. So you can see the different logic in cycle programming between Miele and F&P. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

Machine took a hot fill, as you'd expect for a long, hot wash. I (in my anal-retentive fashion) ensured the hot water line was purged first.

 

[washer111]

More Photos?

Indeed!

It turns out that the Heavy cycle does somewhere between 2 and 3 rinses by default. With the Rinse+ option selected, the machine did FOUR (Yes, 4!) of those ridiculously deep rinses. If I had known that, I might've resisted the temptation to use that option. Clear rinses were the order of the day, it seems.

Despite the huge load, the machine still obsessed to the finest detail over distribution and spinning. It was quite irritating, as the machine goes straight into Vortex-Wash (200-400rpm or so) without batting an eyelid.

It seems to need plenty of time to "think" about things, which was annoying because the first couple of times, it got the distribution right, but would then stop and try again at least 10 times.

What is nice is the machine pulses a few times, going a bit faster each time and seemingly sensing pump cavitation to determine when enough water is pulled out before accelerating again. The benefit of this, is unlike the Miele, which would try and accelerate too quickly and suds lock more often than not, the machine's pump can keep up.
Actually, the pump on this machine shifts a huge amount of water. It had the deep washes and rinses pumped out in under a minute. And takes care of the spin water very easily.

And by the way, did I mention the machine "topped up" the water level TWICE during the wash? The final water level, during the brief "cool down" period is shown in an image.

Then, the end results hanging on an Australian icon, the Hills Hoist. Cannot complain with the results, one bit. Machine seems to have dealt with a couple of older stains a bit too, and left everything pretty soft to boot. Only complaint was a bird later came and dirtied one of my shirts *angry face.*

Edit: Wondering why it seems the photo uploader is torching image quality. What I uploaded before was compressed (about 110kb), but this time I've uploaded the 4mb originals (from a 10 mexapixel setting on the Sony Cybershot) and they've turned to garbage.
Manually compressing the images myself to minute sizes has never caused this much distortion.

 

[gizmo]

can you select this machine to fill with hot water but NOT use the heater?

thanks

chris.

 

[mattywashboy]

Chris.

I think if you select a 60 wash it will fill only with hot water. If you just let it fill for that wash and then cancel it just prior to the heating stage and then restart the machine on a Cold cycle it will just carry on washing without using the heater. This machine doesn't run the pump prior to filling and doesn't dump out the water from a cancelled wash, just carries on the reselcted cycle with whatever water is in there and topping up if needed.

 

[washer111]

Updates!

Have done several loads in the machine now, and I'm still quite impressed with the performance.

The Heavy cycle has been my go-to for my typically at or near-capacity loads of darks or lights & brights. Varying the soil selection does alter the time, although I've opted for Light or Normal most of the time.

Have used the "Everyday" programme for bedding and underwear/socks. Much shorter cycle that is appropriate for these loads, either because they're not soiled, or just don't need 2hrs washing.

Unfortunately, the machine's timer does not take into account time for balancing the load. Despite my (usually) very full loads, it'll fuss until the cows come home over perfect balance. Thus, a Heavy Cycle that might otherwise take about 2hrs ends up being nearly 2:30, which is a tad annoying when you want to have a load done by X o'clock and it isn't done.

As mentioned before, water levels are stupidly high in this machine. I am not sure how this effects the cleaning ability, but this machine has impressed me thus far.
Because the Heavy cycle defaults to 3 rinses following the wash, I have not been using the Rinse Plus option. With the high water levels and long spins, there is simply no need. Clothes are coming out soft, and remain so even after line drying - am not using fabric softener either. This may be related to a difference between the air in Perth (cooler and moister) compared to "Nuclear Summer Heat" one experiences up north.

Again, I will mention the benefits of hot fill.
Regardless of what you think the effect is on certain stains, this machine is removing them with the aide of good detergent and sometimes some Vanish if I feel the need.
The fact is, too, that many U.S. members have hot (or Warm) fills that then heat up, and their results are always superb (i.e. Eugene (Frigilux), Bob (Appnut) and others).

It really does make hot washes much less of a guilt-laden activity, when the hot water comes from a storage-based gas heater just outside the laundry. I'm not sure by how much yet, but we'll see. Fact is, I do about 1 load every week to week and a half - at capacity. Compare this to the others in the house who each do 2-4 "Quick30" wahes through the week, and I'm sure my impact with the odd hot or warm wash is far, far less.

 

[washer111]

You Guessed It - More Updates

This machine is certainly performing to expectation.

I have, of late, attempted to use the "Everyday" cycle and "Cottons" cycle for my laundry, more due to experimentation than anything.
Both use far more typical water levels for the wash, but aren't too concerned with conservation in the rinsing phases.

The Cottons cycle, as noted prior, takes quite a bit longer than the heavy cycle. To be honest, I found the lower water levels seemed to tangle the clothes more - obviously you cannot expect perfection with at-capacity loads, but I can dream.

Today, I elected to test the Quick-30 cycle on a load of whites. No, it isn't stereotypical "Gen-Y laundering." Since accumulating a rather large collection of whites, I have elected to do short washes in warm water with LCB every so often. I did this previously on the Miele's "Express" cycle, which could only run to warm temperatures. This machine, for what it is worth, allows the use of HOT (seriously) temperatures, with the heater assisting. Naturally, a hot wash with bleach was the order of the day, as a result.

As one would expect having washed a load of whites in LCB, the results were dazzling white. Rinsing on the Quick cycle is brief, but reasonably effective. There is no interim spin between the wash and first rinse, and a brief (mostly unbalanced) effort for a minute or two before the final rinse. Then another quick blast before the load is complete. This load was then bunged into the Electrolux Sensor-Dryer and emerged without yellowing. The images above attest those towels are a cream colour, and this was not altered by 1/2 of LCB. Given the machine is used often on shorter, cooler cycles, I figured the LCB-wash wouldn't do any harm.

Overall, I must say that I am quite impressed by this machine. It does the laundry, may not no-nonsense like an SQ machine, but then this wasn't purchased for that. Results are more or less great every time and despite the odd shortfalls noted elsewhere in the thread, there isn't a whole lot to complain about.