Ya know,that 61 Olds reminded me. Dear old dad had a 59,62,64,64,66,67 olds. When did GM switch from A/C controls separate from heat? I remember the 59,62 had them and maybe the 64 Starfire. The 64 98 (my favorite!) had early "comfortron" so it was all together. The 66 & 67 Toronados definently were together. The 70 Caprice had Chevys early attempt at "Comfortron" and included a butt-ugly, huge cabin temp sensor protected by a chrome cage right smack in the middle of the dash. Pop hated it cause there was no way to use the system w/o chilling the air. The regular a/c cars included "astro ventilation". Never understood way you'd want your car to smell like a dog's butt! (think about it)
fave automotive A/Cs 1955-85 yrs
- Thread starter cfz2882
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Rick, did they employ two blowers in that system? I think I remember that both a/c and heat selectors had blower controls or was it done through the magic of wiring?
58limited
Well-known member
Yes, There is a clutch fan on the '58 Buick. The shaft hole is stair stepped, to replace it I have to find a modern equivalent and then have my machinist bore the 1/2" shaft hole to 5/8" diameter for the first 1/8" depth. This is for A/C equipped '58 Buicks only, non-A/C '58 Buicks have a 1/2" dia. shaft hole (the water pumps are different for both too, and they switched to aluminum water pumps during the year so there are four different water pumps used on the '58 Buick depending on the time of production).
Not very many people around here had a/c in their cars until beginning around the early 70's and even then it wasn't common, perhaps because it was an expensive option. Hang-on underdash units though were somewhat popular. Sears and Cdn Tire etc sold those. I remember wasn't it American Motors who in the 70's sometime included a/c in every car.
whirlcool
Well-known member
The regular a/c cars included "astro ventilation".
Astro Ventilation was the word GM used for cars that no longer had the small vent windows in the cars front doors. With Astro Ventilation you just had one piece solid glass and you could route the fresh air in through the vents in the dash. In fact on the one piece window where the vent should be were the words "Astro Ventilation" printed directly on the glass. I think this was only done 68-70 or so. I first saw it on a Camaro.
Astro Ventilation was the word GM used for cars that no longer had the small vent windows in the cars front doors. With Astro Ventilation you just had one piece solid glass and you could route the fresh air in through the vents in the dash. In fact on the one piece window where the vent should be were the words "Astro Ventilation" printed directly on the glass. I think this was only done 68-70 or so. I first saw it on a Camaro.
cfz2882
Well-known member
'68 astro ventilation
early build '68 camaros had"astro ventilation"etched into the door glass-those windows in good shape are highly prized by '68 camaro restorers.My '69 camaro just had"astro ventilation"emblems by the vents
early build '68 camaros had"astro ventilation"etched into the door glass-those windows in good shape are highly prized by '68 camaro restorers.My '69 camaro just had"astro ventilation"emblems by the vents
All this brings us back around to why Ford and Chevy went from in dash to under dash back to in dash? Of course the best vents (other than the roof ducts) were the Chrysler dash top vents with "floor air" controls.
xpanam
Well-known member
1953 Cadillac A/C
Check out this video on You Tube!"1953 Cadillac Series 62 Coupe with Factory Air Conditioning Part 2"
Check out this video on You Tube!"1953 Cadillac Series 62 Coupe with Factory Air Conditioning Part 2"
My '78 Chrysler LeBaron sedan has potent A/C. When I purchased it a few years ago during the summer in Denver, I drove it back to Ohio. It was 106 degrees driving through Kansas. With the regular A/C setting and the lowest fan setting, it was too cold and was making my hands ache. So I had to adjust the temp setting off cold and towards warm a bit.
The only drawback is that it uses the old Tecumseh 2-cylinder compressor, which is noisy and causes the car to shake at idle. The NVH (noise/vibration/harshness) isn't as well-controlled on my "international-sized" LeBaron as compared to a New Yorker Brougham.
The only drawback is that it uses the old Tecumseh 2-cylinder compressor, which is noisy and causes the car to shake at idle. The NVH (noise/vibration/harshness) isn't as well-controlled on my "international-sized" LeBaron as compared to a New Yorker Brougham.
whirlcool
Well-known member
I found that once GM went to "in dash" vents that indicated factory installed A/C. If you had a unit "under dash" that usually meant that the A/C was dealer installed.
Early Chevrolet Malibu's and Chevy Nova's had this arrangement. My father used to call those under dash units "Mickey Mouse" a/c.
Early Chevrolet Malibu's and Chevy Nova's had this arrangement. My father used to call those under dash units "Mickey Mouse" a/c.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
AMC Standard Air:
Was introduced on the '67 Ambassador. It was a big deal at the time; not even Cadillac had standard air then.
Unfortunately for AMC, We The People figured out the catch almost right away. If you bought an Ambassador, the A/C could be deleted if you wanted to save some money. Which meant it was really not standard, and they weren't giving it to you, the way the ad copy tried to make you think.
Rickr: We had a '62 Olds Fiesta wagon for a long time. While the A/C worked, it was capable of frosting the windows in the middle of a Georgia August. Unfortunately, after a few years our Fiesta ran afoul of the notorious condenser problem epidemic on GM full-size cars of this era: the condenser was up under the front passenger-side fender, and getting to it was expensive when something went wrong. Dad declined to spend the money, even after an extensive campaign by Mom, which was unusual - Mom's battle tactics were usually infallible. [this post was last edited: 5/6/2013-00:24]
Was introduced on the '67 Ambassador. It was a big deal at the time; not even Cadillac had standard air then.
Unfortunately for AMC, We The People figured out the catch almost right away. If you bought an Ambassador, the A/C could be deleted if you wanted to save some money. Which meant it was really not standard, and they weren't giving it to you, the way the ad copy tried to make you think.
Rickr: We had a '62 Olds Fiesta wagon for a long time. While the A/C worked, it was capable of frosting the windows in the middle of a Georgia August. Unfortunately, after a few years our Fiesta ran afoul of the notorious condenser problem epidemic on GM full-size cars of this era: the condenser was up under the front passenger-side fender, and getting to it was expensive when something went wrong. Dad declined to spend the money, even after an extensive campaign by Mom, which was unusual - Mom's battle tactics were usually infallible. [this post was last edited: 5/6/2013-00:24]
I had no idea GM used a remote-mount condenser in the '60s! All the ones I've seen were in front of the radiator, excepting the Corvair which had no radiator and mounted the condenser above the engine. Some aftermarket a/c units did use remote condensers with electric fans, in particular for unusual applications such as air-cooled cars like the Beetle and Porsche 911 and 914. Coolaire made one in '71 and '72 for the Citroen DS which mounted twin condensers in front of each front wheel with the airflow being taken from vents in the front bumper - these cars had a unique bumper. The idea was to separate the airflow for the radiator and condensers so as to provide more total flow, an important consideration on a car with carefully managed airflow designed to minimize any extra air in the underhood area for aerodynamic reasons. However, GM didn't bother to research aerodynamics until the late '70s and those '60s models usually had huge full width grilles so I can't see why they bothered with remote mount condensers. Certainly when the a/c worked in big GM cars of that era it was unsurpassed, although Chrysler and Ford were sometimes as good.
BTW my father was exactly the same about car a/c, he didn't care if it worked or not and when it quit he never fixed it. This maddened my mother in particular since his best friend worked in the a/c industry and had all the tools to fix them, and even volunteered to do so. I remember looking at the belt-less compressors in our '61 Ford Galaxie and '67 Citroen ID and thinking how much more pleasant summer would be if only they worked . . .
BTW my father was exactly the same about car a/c, he didn't care if it worked or not and when it quit he never fixed it. This maddened my mother in particular since his best friend worked in the a/c industry and had all the tools to fix them, and even volunteered to do so. I remember looking at the belt-less compressors in our '61 Ford Galaxie and '67 Citroen ID and thinking how much more pleasant summer would be if only they worked . . .
Whirlcool,
Chevy used the Pontiac lead in dash vent system until 58(?) then switched to the vents mounted under the dash with the controls and main vent hung below the middle of the dash. My 61 Biscayne had this system. They used that set-up till 64(?) and then offered the total indash system again. Chevy also had the bow-tie decal on the back window telling all that you were "cool"
Chevy used the Pontiac lead in dash vent system until 58(?) then switched to the vents mounted under the dash with the controls and main vent hung below the middle of the dash. My 61 Biscayne had this system. They used that set-up till 64(?) and then offered the total indash system again. Chevy also had the bow-tie decal on the back window telling all that you were "cool"
AUTOMATIC Climate Controls!
The Thumbwheel control on GM (& used on early Chryslers)...! Ford had a fan control on its Automatic's, 'cept the fan control-less Lincolns!
-- Dave
The Thumbwheel control on GM (& used on early Chryslers)...! Ford had a fan control on its Automatic's, 'cept the fan control-less Lincolns!
-- Dave
cfz2882
Well-known member
i think danemotsandy in reply #31 meant evaporator-the location described is where the evaporator(and blower motor)were on many '60s-70s GM cars-Real PITA to service the blower motor or evap on those cars,my '69 camaro and '74 nova were this way.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
I Stand Corrected!
"i think danemotsandy in reply #31 meant evaporator-the location described is where the evaporator(and blower motor)were on many '60s-70s GM cars....
My bad!
There's a reason I'm not in the refrigeration business....
"i think danemotsandy in reply #31 meant evaporator-the location described is where the evaporator(and blower motor)were on many '60s-70s GM cars....
My bad!
There's a reason I'm not in the refrigeration business....
danemodsandy
Well-known member
And An UN-Favorite:
Ford air-conditioning (and heating) for the last 20 years or so. While the refrigeration capacity is very good, Ford uses the most anemic blower fans it can possibly lay its hands on. On "HIGH," you get a bare trickle of air out of the vents. This means the car takes a pretty fair while to cool down in the Summer, and forever to heat up inside during a Midwestern Winter. This is especially disappointing since Ford seems to have solved its O-ring problem that plagued its air-conditioning systems for so many years. The problem is worse with wagons (my favored body style), of course.
And don't get me started about Ford's door detents - the weakest in the business, Yugos not excepted. You open a Ford door to get out of the car on even the slightest slope, and it will slam itself shut on your legs if you're not careful and hold it open - it will not hold itself open, period.
Ford air-conditioning (and heating) for the last 20 years or so. While the refrigeration capacity is very good, Ford uses the most anemic blower fans it can possibly lay its hands on. On "HIGH," you get a bare trickle of air out of the vents. This means the car takes a pretty fair while to cool down in the Summer, and forever to heat up inside during a Midwestern Winter. This is especially disappointing since Ford seems to have solved its O-ring problem that plagued its air-conditioning systems for so many years. The problem is worse with wagons (my favored body style), of course.
And don't get me started about Ford's door detents - the weakest in the business, Yugos not excepted. You open a Ford door to get out of the car on even the slightest slope, and it will slam itself shut on your legs if you're not careful and hold it open - it will not hold itself open, period.
philr
Well-known member
I also have an interest in automotive A/C systems.
Over 10 years ago, I installed a used factory A/C system from a parts car in my 1967 Riviera which didn't have a/c and I had it charged with R-134a with the original hoses, compressor and evaporator (just replaced the dryer and condenser) and it still works fine. This is not bad considering that I just had to replace (for the second time) the condenser on my low mileage 2001 Camry!
I didn't use those "POA update kits" which converts these systems to cycling switches and orifice tubes rather than having the compressor run constantly and the system runs just fine with the original valves (at least for the kind of weather we get here!).
The Automatic Climate Control is still charged with R-12 and blowing cold in my 1975 Buick Electra.
I also think that systems with A-6 compressors and expansion valves are among the best even if they're not the most energy efficient!
GM did sell their A-6 compressors to many competitors (including Ford, Jaguar, MB, and Volvo) in the 1970s and early 1980s. The junk R-4 compressors that were introduced on some 1975 GM models (on some small engines like the Buick V6) are certainly not as good!
GM also replaced the V.I.R. unit with a fixed orifice tube and cycling switches in the late seventies and constant cycling of the cycling of the A-6 compressors is a bit annoying at constant highway speeds as they draw a lot of horsepower (I think around 12-14) compared to some newer compressors. In 1976, GM also rebadged it's Frigidaire compressors as "Delco Air" as they probably prepared to get rid of their Frigidaire brand.
Over 10 years ago, I installed a used factory A/C system from a parts car in my 1967 Riviera which didn't have a/c and I had it charged with R-134a with the original hoses, compressor and evaporator (just replaced the dryer and condenser) and it still works fine. This is not bad considering that I just had to replace (for the second time) the condenser on my low mileage 2001 Camry!
I didn't use those "POA update kits" which converts these systems to cycling switches and orifice tubes rather than having the compressor run constantly and the system runs just fine with the original valves (at least for the kind of weather we get here!).
The Automatic Climate Control is still charged with R-12 and blowing cold in my 1975 Buick Electra.
I also think that systems with A-6 compressors and expansion valves are among the best even if they're not the most energy efficient!
GM did sell their A-6 compressors to many competitors (including Ford, Jaguar, MB, and Volvo) in the 1970s and early 1980s. The junk R-4 compressors that were introduced on some 1975 GM models (on some small engines like the Buick V6) are certainly not as good!
GM also replaced the V.I.R. unit with a fixed orifice tube and cycling switches in the late seventies and constant cycling of the cycling of the A-6 compressors is a bit annoying at constant highway speeds as they draw a lot of horsepower (I think around 12-14) compared to some newer compressors. In 1976, GM also rebadged it's Frigidaire compressors as "Delco Air" as they probably prepared to get rid of their Frigidaire brand.
cfz2882
Well-known member
A-6 pulley
the RPM and HP draw of an A-6 can be reduced by using a larger than stock pulley-i got a pulley off a ~1981 volvo A-6 that is quite a bit larger diameter than the original on the '82 chevy van A-6 i may use on my Z28;offset of the volvo pulley might be different than GM,so i will adjust if needed so belt runs in line.BTW the volvo used an expansion valve-US made,but not GM.
the RPM and HP draw of an A-6 can be reduced by using a larger than stock pulley-i got a pulley off a ~1981 volvo A-6 that is quite a bit larger diameter than the original on the '82 chevy van A-6 i may use on my Z28;offset of the volvo pulley might be different than GM,so i will adjust if needed so belt runs in line.BTW the volvo used an expansion valve-US made,but not GM.
